MQA is Vaporware

[John Dyson]

6 minutes ago, 4est said:

Please don't ask me to listen to Abba, pretty please?

NO!!!!   Abba is 'test material'.  Do you know how nuts it makes a person listening over and over again to obliterate modulation distortion (ABBA by default is full of it.)  ABBA is *test material* only nowadays.

 

We can do Olivia (pretty good quality), Carpenters (limited by the material), Linda Ronstadt (limited by the Aphex 'distorter'),  Simon & Garfunkel (not an ideal example of super high quality -- but cleaner than most available copies nowadays), 'The Cars' (surprisingly clean/clear/undistorted), a bit of Eric Clapner :-), some Roberta Flack (not 100% perfect), Bread (really nice and mellow), etc....   I can even do Taylor Swift (Shake it Off), but the DolbyA seems to have been used for effect -- not noise reduction.  Can even do Petula Clark (Downtown, Don't sleep in the Subway -- underpass) -- but highly processed stuff from the 1960s is not so good :-).

 

John

 

[Rt66indierock]

7 hours ago, astrotoy said:

Having not participated in this thread, when it hit 16000 posts, I thought it would be a good time.  I turned around, and the post count was 17000.  First, a disclaimer.  I have never heard an MQA file, nor do I think I have anything that will play one (although I do use Roon but don't subscribe to anything with it).  It appears that there is a goal to this thread for the great majority posting on it.  That is to end MQA.  However, it appears to me that this thread is an extremely ineffective way to accomplish it.  First, there appears to be no one from any of the customers of MQA (I mean the companies that pay MQA for licensing their processes) that participate in the thread or pay any obvious attention to it.  Second, it doesn't appear that MQA itself participates or pays attention to it.  Third, that for these parties hi-fi is a business and they want to make money in that business, and see MQA as a way to do that.  

 

So, to end MQA one should be thinking about ways to directly affect the business decisions that these companies are making.  The easiest way is to wait for the market to make the decision.  It requires no work, not even a thread (so you can go about with more useful activity). However, it very well could be very slow and may not be successful. Take Bose, for example (as our fearless leader did a couple of weeks ago) or Dolby (if we follow Mr. Dyson's comments about Dolby A whose lack of quality did not lead to the demise of Dolby).  

 

Another way is to put economic pressure on the companies, such as a massive boycott of their products.  Takes much more effort, but has been effective in some cases.  For the many customers of MQA it would take a large number of such boycotts, not so easy to do.  There may be a critical customer whose loss would so affect the business of MQA that they would go bankrupt. If so, going after that company might make sense.  Another is to initiate a class action lawsuit (most effective if targeted directly at MQA, since class action suits against the many different companies which license MQA would take much more effort.)  You would need to either have an attorney (perhaps a member of this thread) who would be willing to take on the suit pro bono, or have wealthy members of the thread finance the law suit.  There may not be reasonable grounds to file the suit, but that has not stopped entities from pursuing such actions, especially if they are tenacious and have the financial backing to wear the company down.

 

A third way is the way that was successful in the last US Presidential Election.  Do a version of 'Catch and Kill'.  This would be best directed at MQA, not at its customers.  Make an offer to buy them out.  If successful, then shut down the company.  Happens all the time with a competitor buying out a rival.  Quick and efficient example of capitalism at work.   I am sure MQA has a price.  If as reported by some posters on this thread that MQA is losing money, then the offer would be lower than if they were profitable.  Given their reported annual sales (taken from earlier posts on this thread) that they have annual sales in the 7 digit range (updates and corrections are appreciated, but the exact number is not important for the argument), then an offer which I would guess might be in the $1M (USD or GBP) to $100M range could get you the company (I am guessing that the real number is in the lower part of the range).   There may be members of the thread or people who have friends who may be willing to put up the necessary funds.   If there is not an individual willing to do it, then perhaps a go fund me campaign would be an easy test to see whether there is sufficient interest. 

 

Larry (who is not interested in having the last word on this or any other thread)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You to ask yourself one question. How did I get vaporware to stick?

[asdf1000]

15 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

You to ask yourself one question. How did I get vaporware to stick?

 

The technical discussion has kept the thread going... not really the thread title so much... in my opinion.

 

[botrytis]

13 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

The technical discussion has kept the thread going... not really the thread title so much... in my opinion.

 

 

Well, MQA needs cash infusion - they can't continue to take money from investors. Right now MQA is not producing cash. If this continues, they will burn the good will investors have towards them.

 

This thread helps to funnel real information about MQA out to the world. Jes saying.

[daverich4]

50 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

This thread helps to funnel real information about MQA out to the world. Jes saying.

 

This thread invites excessive navel gazing but as far as getting information out to the world or the world outside this web site even being aware of this thread, not so much. Jes saying.

[The Computer Audiophile]

14 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

as far as getting information out to the world or the world outside this web site even being aware of this thread, not so much

That’s contrary to what I hear around the industry. Technically the “world” thinks Bose is the ultimate in fidelity, but considering those somewhat interested in HiFi as our world, this thread continues to supply information for dissemination. 

[botrytis]

22 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

 

This thread invites excessive navel gazing but as far as getting information out to the world or the world outside this web site even being aware of this thread, not so much. Jes saying.

 

Not true. If the information is only partly true in this thread (which I believe is 100% true but playing Devil's Advocate), it should still give audiophiles pause to think. Does one really want extra noise in high res files (and these files are only part high res because they are produced from them and that is it).

[rickca]

This thread has been a desk pounding success. 😋

[daverich4]

41 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

Not true. If the information is only partly true in this thread (which I believe is 100% true but playing Devil's Advocate), it should still give audiophiles pause to think. Does one really want extra noise in high res files (and these files are only part high res because they are produced from them and that is it).

 

I’m prepared to stipulate that the information in this thread is 100% true but believe you are grossly overestimating the number of audiophiles around the world who are aware of it. 

[botrytis]

10 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

 

I’m prepared to stipulate that the information in this thread is 100% true but believe you are grossly overestimating the number of audiophiles around the world who are aware of it. 

 

I think as others start to understand the ramifications of MQA, there will eventually be louder and louder voices. I don't care one wit about MQA, either way. I do not want it to be the only choice out there.

 

If you like MQA, go at it. Just leave me and my FLAC files alone.

[daverich4]

6 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

I think as others start to understand the ramifications of MQA, there will eventually be louder and louder voices. I don't care one wit about MQA, either way. I do not want it to be the only choice out there.

 

If you like MQA, go at it. Just leave me and my FLAC files alone.

 

On the few occasions in this thread I’ve expressed an opinion on MQA itself, it’s that I don’t care about it one way or the other. On the other hand, all my ripped files are .aiff not FLAC, so there’s that. 😃

[rickca]

Can one of our Chinese AS users tell us whether Xiami is popular among Chinese music streaming consumers?  Or is it insignificant, like TIDAL vs Spotify?

 

Here is some information I found on Billboard:

 

Xiami Music was founded in 2008 and acquired by the Alibaba Group in 2013. User numbers are not publicly available. The biggest digital music services in China are QQ Music, Kugou, Kuwo and WeSing, all owned by tech giant Tencent Music Entertainment Group. Collectively those four services have more than 800 million users, says Tencent.

NetEase Cloud Music, operated by Chinese internet company NetEase, is another of the region's biggest music platforms and claims to have more than 600 million registered users.

 

Note also that Tencent is negotiating to buy 10% of UMG with a one-year option to double its stake.

[botrytis]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

Can one of our Chinese AS users tell us whether Xiami is popular among Chinese music streaming consumers?  Or is it insignificant, like TIDAL vs Spotify?

 

Here is some information I found on Billboard:

 

Xiami Music was founded in 2008 and acquired by the Alibaba Group in 2013. User numbers are not publicly available. The biggest digital music services in China are QQ Music, Kugou, Kuwo and WeSing, all owned by tech giant Tencent Music Entertainment Group. Collectively those four services have more than 800 million users, says Tencent.

NetEase Cloud Music, operated by Chinese internet company NetEase, is another of the region's biggest music platforms and claims to have more than 600 million registered users.

 

Note also that Tencent is negotiating to buy 10% of UMG with a one-year option to double its stake.

 

Like the Chinese are allowed to view content from the rest of the world. Just like Russia, who is setting up their own DNS system to not allow their citizens to see content outside the US.

 

OK, no more politics - SORRY.

[Ralf11]

Kashmir

[mansr]

Casimir effect.

[botrytis]

45 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Kashmir

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

That’s contrary to what I hear around the industry. Technically the “world” thinks Bose is the ultimate in fidelity, but considering those somewhat interested in HiFi as our world, this thread continues to supply information for dissemination. 

@daverich4, I’m not sure why you used the Disagree button on the above post.  Are you suggesting 

 

1. That isn’t what I’m hearing around the industry?

2. Bose isn’t highly thought of by civilians?

3. This thread isn’t supplying information?

 

 

[Sal1950]

5 hours ago, botrytis said:

 

Not true. If the information is only partly true in this thread (which I believe is 100% true but playing Devil's Advocate), it should still give audiophiles pause to think. Does one really want extra noise in high res files (and these files are only part high res because they are produced from them and that is it).

Also, unlike @sandyk I think many audiophiles care very much about access to and the freedom to copy, bit perfect copies of original master tapes. This was the dream of music lovers for years, a dream mostly answered with the CD. Then later when the attempted introduction of DRM, it was heavily fought against.  MHO is that the more the audiophile world at large understands the true meaning and goals of MQA, the more they will appose it.

I have at time shook my head at the size of this thread and the ongoing repeating of the many facts and opinions. But then when I think about how the high level of activity here increases the chances of any google search on MQA will lead them here and to the voices of freedom that are presented, I smile.

Thanks Chris for this platform, and the other anti-MQA professionals/amateurs here for putting out the true nature of MQA.

[Rt66indierock]

I’ll write a response in a bit but I love watching golf where I’ve played. In this case Pumpkin Ridge in North Plains Oregon. Twenty two years ago I was on television playing there in a tournament.

 

But as tease the financial information about MQA has had an impact. And my research about MQA found  people who had tackled the technical side. It is one of my proudest moments they contributed to this thread.

 

As good as being at the table when digital audio theory was discussed in the seventies in the Pacific Northwest.

[sandyk]

54 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

Also, unlike @sandyk I think many audiophiles care very much about access to and the freedom to copy, bit perfect copies of original master tapes.

 

 All of us would love this, but it should be blatantly obvious that the Record Companies will continue to resist this, and their  reasoning is  that the ability to copy and re distribute these recordings without some kind of safeguard will reduce their revenue.

I would  much prefer a permanent personal copy of a high res album with some kind of copy protection, over a dumbed down version such as MQA , or no Master quality recording access at all.

 

[Sonicularity]

6 hours ago, daverich4 said:

 

On the few occasions in this thread I’ve expressed an opinion on MQA itself, it’s that I don’t care about it one way or the other. On the other hand, all my ripped files are .aiff not FLAC, so there’s that. 😃

If I go back and look at which comments you have selected the "Disagree" button under, I'd say you are obviously in strong support of MQA.

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

 All of us would love this, but it should be blatantly obvious that the Record Companies will continue to resist this, and their  reasoning is  that the ability to copy and re distribute these recordings without some kind of safeguard will reduce their revenue.

I would  much prefer a permanent personal copy of a high res album with some kind of copy protection, over a dumbed down version such as MQA , or no Master quality recording access at all.

 

 

Then Bandcamp should be gone after first - since so many groups are using that now.

[MetalNuts]

8 hours ago, rickca said:

Can one of our Chinese AS users tell us whether Xiami is popular among Chinese music streaming consumers?  Or is it insignificant, like TIDAL vs Spotify?

 

Here is some information I found on Billboard:

 

Xiami Music was founded in 2008 and acquired by the Alibaba Group in 2013. User numbers are not publicly available. The biggest digital music services in China are QQ Music, Kugou, Kuwo and WeSing, all owned by tech giant Tencent Music Entertainment Group. Collectively those four services have more than 800 million users, says Tencent.

NetEase Cloud Music, operated by Chinese internet company NetEase, is another of the region's biggest music platforms and claims to have more than 600 million registered users.

 

Note also that Tencent is negotiating to buy 10% of UMG with a one-year option to double its stake.

 

First of all, my understanding is that only mainland Chinese IP address can assess those service, so even a Chinese myself not residing mainland cannot assess those service, further, many service requires registration with real identity.  Secondly, my previous experience using those services such as QQ Music (before restriction of access outside mainland) is that the music and songs are mostly Chinese, non-Chinese may not be interested in those music and songs. 

[rickca]

1 minute ago, MetalNuts said:

 

First of all, my understanding is that only mainland Chinese IP address can assess those service, so even a Chinese myself not residing mainland cannot assess those service, further, many service requires registration with real identity.  Secondly, my previous experience using those services such as QQ Music (before restriction of access outside mainland) is that the music and songs are mostly Chinese, non-Chinese may not be interested in those music and songs. 

Can mainland Chinese users access AS and participate in this forum?

[MetalNuts]

49 minutes ago, rickca said:

Can mainland Chinese users access AS and participate in this forum?

 

I am not sure but unlikely without setting up VPN hiding their mainland IP address.  As far as I know, people in mainland have no access to hotmail and facebook.

 

Check this out

https://www.saporedicina.com/english/list-of-blocked-websites-in-china