Popular Post Ishmael Slapowitz Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jim Austin said: I'll be polite and just say that you and I obviously don't read this the same way. My Best, Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile What a joke. When you have no reasonable explanation, are disingenuous, and operate completely in an academic style ivory tower,...go with "we don't see eye to eye". Your lack of interest in being a real journalist is clear to anyone who has any common sense. crenca and esldude 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Jim Austin Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 Oh, and Chris, almost forgot: I stirred up your forum for you, made you a couple of bucks. You're welcome. Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile JSeymour, MikeyFresh, askat1988 and 6 others 1 2 2 4 Link to comment
Ishmael Slapowitz Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, asdf1000 said: In fairness to JA, he doesn't say "full authentic" in the quote you shared there. You said that... He says unfolded. And yes we know unfolding beyond 96k is crappy up-sampling... I want MQA to go away but I like JA's inputs here so we need to stay accurate or he'll disappear from this thread and we're left with not much. Sorry he had a perfect opportunity to qualify the "24/192" unfold claim. He did not. Link to comment
Ishmael Slapowitz Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Jim Austin said: Oh, and Chris, almost forgot: I stirred up your forum for you, made you a couple of bucks. You're welcome. Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile Your smugness really is second to none. Perhaps your loyalty to JA for providing you with an actual full time job is blinding you. Ralf11 1 Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Just now, Ishmael Slapowitz said: Sorry he had a perfect opportunity to qualify the "24/192" unfold claim. He did not. Like you I'd prefer MQA go away, but respectfully, that's a bit silly in my opinion. Link to comment
Popular Post Ishmael Slapowitz Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 minute ago, asdf1000 said: Like you I'd prefer MQA go away, but respectfully, that's a bit silly in my opinion. No it is not. It was an intentionally misleading statement. And this is a long time ongoing pattern. esldude and Ralf11 2 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Jim Austin said: I don't think that's an accurate characterization. John, a technically astute, experienced recording engineer and audio reviewer--a winner of the Heyser Award from the Audio Engineering Society--certainly understands what goes on up there. Try scrolling back a few pages in this thread and witness John's utter bewilderment at the result of a trivial test, along with several factually incorrect statement regarding resampling filters. The Computer Audiophile, MikeyFresh, Ralf11 and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, asdf1000 said: Like you I'd prefer MQA go away, but respectfully, that's a bit silly in my opinion. I agree with Slappy. Anyone not knowing how MQA actually works (probably most of Stereophile's readership) would assume from JA's sentence that he is referring to lossless playback of a 24/192 file. crenca, The Computer Audiophile, MikeyFresh and 2 others 3 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, Jim Austin said: Oh, and Chris, almost forgot: I stirred up your forum for you, made you a couple of bucks. You're welcome. Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile Thank you for reaffirming my decision not to renew my Stereophile subscription. Kyhl, MikeyFresh and Ran 2 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
psjug Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said: Your smugness really is second to none. Perhaps your loyalty to JA for providing you with an actual full time job is blinding you. That bio on his personal site, tho. It's been cleaned up but you can find snippets of the even more narcissistic version somewhere on this AS site if you can stomach it. http://www.jimaustin.org/ You're welcome! Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, Jim Austin said: I doubt there's ever been a intolerant opinion expressed that didn't make essentially that same, weak argument. It's time for me to eat dinner. You guys have fun. Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile 15 minutes ago, Jim Austin said: Oh, and Chris, almost forgot: I stirred up your forum for you, made you a couple of bucks. You're welcome. Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile Wow. I thought you may want to encourage a new audience to read your publication since the current audience is dying off. Literally dying off. With posts like those I can see I clearly thought wrong. You’ve assumed the helm of the old guard in fantastic fashion. askat1988, esldude, mansr and 4 others 5 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Wow. I thought you may want to encourage a new audience to read your publication since the current audience is dying off. Literally dying off. With posts like those I can see I clearly thought wrong. You’ve assumed the helm of the old guard in fantastic fashion. The new JA is just showing he is a true professional. Ishmael Slapowitz and crenca 1 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, esldude said: The new JA is just showing he is a true professional. I’m actually surprised. I called out his AS username in an effort to get the real story from him. I thought it was a nice gesture. Turns out he’d rather be the jester. Ishmael Slapowitz, mansr, MikeyFresh and 1 other 1 1 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I’m actually surprised. I called out his AS username in an effort to get the real story from him. I thought it was a nice gesture. Turns out he’d rather be the jester. Think deeper on what profession I had in mind. crenca and The Computer Audiophile 1 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 3 hours ago, kumakuma said: Thank you for reaffirming my decision not to renew my Stereophile subscription. I didn't renew my subscription in the early 90's. I wonder if the current readership realizes how badly they're being played. Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
firedog Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 11 hours ago, tmtomh said: Finally. And JVS just published an album review where he didn't mention MQA. Imagine that. Maybe all our comments are having an effect. MikeyFresh 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 11 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I hate to read into and pick apart language, but using the term “it must be acknowledged” seems to come from a place of “we were wrong initially” or “although I’m a supporter, it must be ...” Rather than an educational stance the language seems apologetic. I could be 100% wrong. Perhaps @Jim Austin can fill us in. I'm happy they are finally writing the truth instead of telling us about so called "24/384" and "24/176" MQA files. Accuracy is more important than an apology. I wonder if they will ever get to calling those files "upsampled to", which is the fully accurate description? Doubtful. crenca, MikeyFresh, Kyhl and 1 other 3 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 11 hours ago, Jim Austin said: I should note however that this contradicts nothing I've written. My earliest technical writings about MQA made it clear that any unfolding beyond 96kHz is lossy. There was no room for it in the magazine--anyway it would have been a digression--but I can add here that almost all of what's lost (or retained, for that matter) at those frequencies is electronic noise, which, being random, compresses poorly but is easily modeled. To me it seems foolish to devote so much bandwidth to random noise, however cheap and abundant it--the bandwidth--might be. That would be a very reasonable position if your writers didn't constantly refer to MQA files as if they are full on 4X and 8X PCM rates and not upsampled to those rates from something less than full 2X. That is simply misleading. I'm sure you won't admit your error here. Now that Qobuz and others are successfully streaming us 2X and 4X NON LOSSY files, I have some hope that even you will realize that MQA is unneeded and we don't need the proprietary money grab of a format. "The Industry" doesn't need it either, in spite of your hard to understand position that it is somehow necessary and we should just accept it, in spite of the fact that it has basically zero benefit for consumers. crenca, Currawong and MikeyFresh 2 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post gdpr Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, firedog said: I'm happy they are finally writing the truth instead of telling us about so called "24/384" and "24/176" MQA files. Accuracy is more important than an apology. I wonder if they will ever get to calling those files "upsampled to", which is the fully accurate description? Doubtful. I agree with your statement - accuracy is better than an apology. For this reason, I would not use 'writing the thruth', but rather say 'hinting at the truth' Dirk The Computer Audiophile and crenca 2 Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Jim Austin said: I'll be polite and just say that you and I obviously don't read this the same way. My Best, Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile Saying it is "unfolded" to 24/192 is adopting MQA marketing speak, which is a perfect example of Orwellian newspeak. It doesn't "unfold" to 24/192. It's upsampled and added to so it can get to 24/192. Saying otherwise is misleading. I think once upon a time your magazine would have felt compelled to say something is an upsample. Why a different set of standards for MQA? askat1988, MikeyFresh, Hugo9000 and 3 others 5 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Jim Austin said: Oh, and Chris, almost forgot: I stirred up your forum for you, made you a couple of bucks. You're welcome. Jim Austin, Editor Stereophile Next time you and your writers want to make negative comments about the tone of the discussion at audio forums, use yourself as quoted above as an example. The writing at your magazine and the standards are being criticized. Are you above legitimate criticism? The nasty sarcastic comment above is unnecessary. You're trained as a scientist. Maybe it's possible that there are situations where a scientific standard of rigor should be applied to what you publish, and not just whatever a given writer feels like writing. Hugo9000, MikeyFresh, askat1988 and 4 others 5 1 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Jim Austin said: There was no room for it in the magazine This part is just too funny. In a series of a dozen or so multi-page articles. A quick scan of the archives turns up no fewer than 34 articles with MQA as primary topic (there are probably more that I missed), plus quite a few more where it is given prominent mention. And yet there's no room to mention, just once, that the "second unfold" is a fake? The mind boggles. In case anyone doubts my count, here are the URLs of the 34 articles I found: https://www.stereophile.com/content/audirvana-playback-software-now-unfolds-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/chesky-release-mqa-cds-may https://www.stereophile.com/content/inside-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/ive-heard-future-streaming-meridians-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/meridian-updates-its-products-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/mobile-mqa-playback-lg https://www.stereophile.com/content/more-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-advances-and-more-encountered-ces https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-aliasing-b-splines-centers-gravity https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-and-warner-real-scoop https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-contextualized https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-drm-and-other-four-letter-words https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-encoded-cds-yes https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-expands-its-reach https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-laas https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-manhattan-wednesday-evening https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-master-class https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-munich https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-news-ifa https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-questions-and-answers-question-what-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-some-claims-examined https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-takes-big-time-2016 https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-tested-part-1 https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-tested-part-2-fold https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-yes-or-no-axpona-2017-poll https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqas-sound-convinces-hardened-showgoers https://www.stereophile.com/content/munich-milestones-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/mytek-support-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/rmaf-starting-day-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/spencer-chrislu-master-quality-authenticated https://www.stereophile.com/content/universal-music-group-goes-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/warner-music-group-goes-mqa https://www.stereophile.com/content/zen-art-ad-conversion URLs intentionally not clickable so as not to give them any free SEO. Hugo9000, Ran, 4est and 7 others 8 1 1 Link to comment
John Dyson Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said: Sorry he had a perfect opportunity to qualify the "24/192" unfold claim. He did not. Every time that I read 'unfold', I cringe. 'Unfolding' is imperfect. (I am not disagreeing with the previous comment -- just that 'unfolding' sounds too nice.) Unfolding is first IMPERFECT, secondly -- UNFOLDING would not be necessary unless there was the ugly 'FOLDING', which by the way that it is described -- is a loss of data with hints. Plucking coefficents from a DCT/MDCT based on stats/levels is also that kind of lossage. The "fold -> unfold" is lossy -- similar to "dct -> pluck out coefficents -> idct" being lossy. Some of the math might be more 'natural' or 'built-in' to the system with folding/unfolding -- maybe, maybe-not, but that doesn't make it audibly good. If the result is incomplete after 'unfolding', then the 'noise' had better be statistically close to dither, or it can produce problems. John crenca 1 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 minute ago, John Dyson said: Unfolding is first IMPERFECT, secondly -- UNFOLDING would not be necessary unless there was the ugly 'FOLDING', which by the way that it is described -- is a loss of data with hints. Plucking coefficents from a DCT/MDCT based on stats/levels is also that kind of lossage. The "fold -> unfold" is lossy -- similar to "dct -> pluck out coefficents -> idct" being lossy. The so-called "second unfold" is even worse. It is lossy similar to how "throw stuff away" -> "make some shit up" is lossy. Correction, it's lossy exactly like that. 4est, tmtomh, John Dyson and 4 others 5 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post tmtomh Posted August 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 hours ago, firedog said: I'm happy they are finally writing the truth instead of telling us about so called "24/384" and "24/176" MQA files. Accuracy is more important than an apology. I wonder if they will ever get to calling those files "upsampled to", which is the fully accurate description? Doubtful. Great points. They are indeed upsampled rather than "restored" (or whatever), and IMHO it's flat-out deception for MQA to say or imply anything otherwise - and it's professional malfeasance for the audiophile press to let that misunderstanding stand in its own summaries and explanations of the technology. Hugo9000, Kyhl, MikeyFresh and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment
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