MQA is Vaporware

[Dr Tone]

I sampled MQA when it first came available to Tidal.  Of course I didn't have a MQA DAC.  I found in many cases the particular master I had sounded much better in 16/44.1 even.  More modern stuff that I could assume was the same master sounded different but not necessarily better or worse on a case by case.

 

The fact that I have no clue what master is involved with streaming and I wasn't dropping money on a new DAC, made me move on.  That has not changed for me now.  Sound quality aside I'm not for MQA for other reasons.  I like choice and I don't like a world with only MQA.

[Indydan]

4 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

Making judgments from youtube videos is iffy at best.  If you live near a regional audio show, I would suggest going to the show and sitting down at either the Audioquest or Mytek tables and have a listen.  The trick of course is to find a time where the crowds are sparse so the noise is not too bad.

 

Are you a member of the private MQA Facebook group?

[rickca]

17 minutes ago, Indydan said:

 

Are you a member of the private MQA Facebook group?

That group must have a training video with talking points, objection handling techniques, etc.  The members are immediately recognizable on forums.  It's like the Stepford Wives.

 

So what motivates these guys?  I'm skeptical they just really like MQA.

 

 

[FredericV]

6 minutes ago, rickca said:

That group must have a training video with talking points, objection handling techniques, etc.  The members are immediately recognizable on forums.  It's like the Stepford Wives.

We have a full screenshot dump of the group.

They were not very smart in selecting the members.
I'm not invited, but they invited several hifi professionals, and it's a small world.

So I had some fun having a screenshot program dump the group while I scrolled down for about an hour, via a remote desktop connection to the facebook of one of the members, with permission. As the posts in facebook appear in a certain region, all I had to do is  run a batch crop.

If you see these screenshots and who posts the most, you will never believe the key members are not being paid to do this, and it's all just hobby which is their main excuse. The admin started the group with a lot of references to neuroscience articles, in order to gain credibility via the well known EXTERNAL AUTHORITY argument as posted earlier.

The group also discloses strategies how they would attack archimago's blog, and even the fake names they used.

[#Yoda#]

This thread is going round in circles for some time now. I'm surprised that no one here seems to notice that always when a MQA supporter is banned or burned, a new one appears instantly and the whole story starts again. Somehow boring meanwhile.

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, #Yoda# said:

I'm surprised that no one here noticed that always when a MQA supporter is banned or burned, a new one appear instantly and the whole story starts again.

Oh, we've noticed.

[#Yoda#]

It would be interesting to know about their intentions to keep this thread going on with their interference.

[SlimPickins]

Following this thread over the holidays has been pure entertainment.

 

Until I have a chance a to spend time listening to MQA, i will consider it equal parts audio snake oil and P.T. Barnum.

 

Thumbs up to Knickerhawk. 

He moved the thread further in one post than Samuel T. Cogley, Fair Hedon, Dr. Tone and kumakuma have in the last 20+ pages.

Between Star Trek and Dungeons & Dragons, I think you guys have most of the names covered.

Before reading this thread, I assumed most of the CA posters were grown men.

 

Unlike the keyboard warriors listed above, at least Lee has the stones to post under his real name and photo.

 

Maybe some of you guys should spend more time on the People magazine forums.

Drama, finger pointing and snitching carry more weight over there.

 

Carry on.  I have more popcorn in the kettle.

[Lee Scoggins]

1 hour ago, Indydan said:

 

Are you a member of the private MQA Facebook group?

 

Yes.  It’s a good source of news updates.

[knickerhawk]

2 hours ago, Shadders said:

Hi,

It was a comparison test, not absolute test. So the test is valid.

 

Indeed, it is a valid test if the way you listen to music is via YouTube playback of tracks captured by live recording of somebody else's system playing the music!

 

Quote

I accept other peoples experience, so you should really accept mine.

 

Oh, but I most definitely accept your experience that you couldn't hear any good reason to adopt MQA based on that video!

 

By the way, I couldn't tell either, but I definitely could hear a meaningful difference when I listened directly on my own system to the original CD and MQA tracks used in the video, which I were already familiar with because I'm a big Chris Thile fan. Yo Yo Ma's cello sounds like he's using more rosin on his bow, and Chris Thile's mandolin is sweeter in the right way on the MQA version. My suggestion: check out the MQA version of Thile's latest release, "Thanks for Listening" - the best thing he's done outside of his Punch Brothers stuff. The recording is well done and captures the transient, metallic detail of the picked mandolin noticeably better than the CD version.  

[Lee Scoggins]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

 

Can't argue with what you hear. But I can argue with all the reviews basically saying MQA is clearly better, and pretty much always better in every case. I don't hear that at all: I hear sometimes better, sometimes worse, sometimes different but not really better or worse.

I just listened to  Keith Jarrett's "Shades" in Redbook, MQA, and 24/96. I'd assume the MQA is made from the 24/96 (unless they went back to the tape, which I seriously doubt, as pretty much the entire ECM catalog suddenly appeared in Tidal and in MQA). 

The main difference I hear between the MQA and the Redbook is that in the MQA everything is pushed forward closer to the listener. Is this better? It's a matter of debate. I'd have to say yes, because it makes it easier to hear some of the detail.

But how does that sound compared to the 24/96? IMO, not as good. And clearly not. The 24/96 sounds somewhat between the Redbook and MQA in how far "forward" it seems to be. So you easily hear all the detail. But I'd say the hi-res is a more balanced, coherent, natural sound. Much more like real music and makes the MQA sound sort of artificial - impressive, but not like the real thing. 

 

Just my 2 cents. I can't argue with people who like MQA. But I can't help feeling that the without exception praise some are making about every MQA track they hear is at least partially based on expectation bias. Reverse the labels on the tracks, and they'll tell you the standard hi-res track sounds better than the MQA. 

 

I give you credit for doing this test.

[Lee Scoggins]

5 hours ago, Shadders said:

Hi Lee,

I understand your concern, that the quality is not that high, but the differences are apparent. For me to listen to MQA, i will have to purchase a DAC - and i am happy with what i have got.

 

To add to this - reading the MQA AES paper, they use a technique for adding information that is not there. That is, they process the file to add information which they cannot know was there in the original recording. This is an effect that some people like, and others do not like, or are ambivalent about.

 

So, my take on this is, adding information to a recording which you do not know was there in the studio in the first place means any MQA processing is fake. It may sound nice, but it is still fake.

 

The other aspect is temporal blurring. Without knowledge of the filters used, you cannot reverse this.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

 

The problem with the youtube comparo is they used a cheap video cam mic.  And compounding this is the mic is recording playback on an unfamiliar system.

 

A suggestion: find an audioquest dealer and see if you can bring a laptop and set of cans and borrow a dmo unit for 20-30 minutes. Then select something acoustic which is much easier to use for hearing differences.

[esldude]

1 hour ago, SlimPickins said:

Following this thread over the holidays has been pure entertainment.

 

Until I have a chance a to spend time listening to MQA, i will consider it equal parts audio snake oil and P.T. Barnum.

 

Thumbs up to Knickerhawk. 

He moved the thread further in one post than Samuel T. Cogley, Fair Hedon, Dr. Tone and kumakuma have in the last 20+ pages.

Between Star Trek and Dungeons & Dragons, I think you guys have most of the names covered.

Before reading this thread, I assumed most of the CA posters were grown men.

 

Unlike the keyboard warriors listed above, at least Lee has the stones to post under his real name and photo.

 

Maybe some of you guys should spend more time on the People magazine forums.

Drama, finger pointing and snitching carry more weight over there.

 

Carry on.  I have more popcorn in the kettle.

Is that you Mr. Shillingsworth?

[Fair Hedon]

Posted on the Hoffman thread: by member "art".

 

"To these ears and those of a multiple Grammy-winning recording engineer/producer, on multiple systems ... including his own studio--involving major albums he worked on--the MQA to us proved to be colored, often unflattering version of the 24/192 flac files of the same mastering. We're doing a piece for a mainstream paper."

 

I can't wait.

[SlimPickins]

56 minutes ago, esldude said:

Is that you Mr. Shillingsworth?

 

No.  I'm pretty sure our DNA is different.

[MikeyFresh]

38 minutes ago, SlimPickins said:

No.  I'm pretty sure our DNA is different.

 

Said the newbie sock puppet-shill.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, MikeyFresh said:

 

Said the newbie sock puppet-shill.

Unwarranted attack. 

[Indydan]

3 hours ago, FredericV said:

We have a full screenshot dump of the group.

The group also discloses strategies how they would attack archimago's blog, and even the fake names they used.

 

MQA has a troll army that would make Vladimir Poutine envious! 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades

[Ralf11]

it's amazing really - they must be well paid

[rickca]

11 minutes ago, Indydan said:

MQA has a troll army that would make Vladimir Poutine envious! 

I assume you know his last name is Putin.

 

Poutine is a delicious French-Canadian dish from my home and native land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

[Lee Scoggins]

30 minutes ago, rickca said:

I assume you know his last name is Putin.

 

Poutine is a delicious French-Canadian dish from my home and native land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

 

Lol.  Russian-Canadian collusion?

[Lee Scoggins]

4 hours ago, SlimPickins said:

Following this thread over the holidays has been pure entertainment.

 

Until I have a chance a to spend time listening to MQA, i will consider it equal parts audio snake oil and P.T. Barnum.

 

Thumbs up to Knickerhawk. 

He moved the thread further in one post than Samuel T. Cogley, Fair Hedon, Dr. Tone and kumakuma have in the last 20+ pages.

Between Star Trek and Dungeons & Dragons, I think you guys have most of the names covered.

Before reading this thread, I assumed most of the CA posters were grown men.

 

Unlike the keyboard warriors listed above, at least Lee has the stones to post under his real name and photo.

 

Maybe some of you guys should spend more time on the People magazine forums.

Drama, finger pointing and snitching carry more weight over there.

 

Carry on.  I have more popcorn in the kettle.

 

With all the vitriol, the chance of laughs here have been slim and none...until Slim showed up.

 

Thanks Slim. Made my day.

[MikeyFresh]

4 hours ago, SlimPickins said:

Unlike the keyboard warriors listed above, at least Lee has the stones to post under his real name and photo.

 

Or, he seeks to promote and drive clicks to his own blog, right?

 

So he has a vested interest in posting under his real name.

[MikeyFresh]

5 hours ago, rickca said:

The members are immediately recognizable on forums.  It's like the Stepford Wives.

 

So what motivates these guys?  I'm skeptical they just really like MQA.

 

 

I for one am old enough to appreciate the very apropos Stepford Wives analogy.

 

I too cannot believe their only motivation is a liking for MQA's sound, very far fetched.

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I assume you know his last name is Putin.

 

Poutine is a delicious French-Canadian dish from my home and native land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

 

Major brain cramp on my part! Yes, I am from QC, so I know what poutine is. I had one yesterday!