A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[sunny_time_99]

11 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

Please do , it seems very interesting!

 

Hi, pls give me some Days. I need to build one  for an friend, and i am going to make some Picture while buildung. due to the fact, that english is not my native language ...i need a few days and a lot help from Google translate. hope that it might be fluid enought.

 

regards sunny

 

for your preperation, you can have a look at Fujitsu Futro S900 Thin Client - G-T44R

[Tatomek7]

On 11/30/2020 at 4:50 PM, sunny_time_99 said:

i use my new power supply in latest Version and the newclassd.com Neutron star.

Can you share some more information on your power supply? Do you feed the Neutron star 3 with 15V or higher?

 

On 11/30/2020 at 4:50 PM, sunny_time_99 said:

the  power supply, thats included in the set is not the one i would like to use.

with the price tag of 20 Euro it can't be something fancy, but did you check, how it sound with it?

[sunny_time_99]

Hello and thank you for your question. 
At first I would like to give only marginal information about my power supply unit. With over 6 years and 
currently over 600 comparative 
power supplies built, the development path was complex and expensive. I am just self-taught and a hobbyist 
who wants the best power supplyfor his hobby. I had a well-defined goal that has now been achieved. Since 
2016 I have been using active rectification, a material selection that has been tried and tested over countless 
hours, a CLC Filter, an active filter element that is placed in front of the regulator attenuates the 
noise floor by an additional 50-60db, a modified high-performance regulator (mostly LC58xx). I have recreated 
almost every circuit concept (so far there are more than 45 variants) and subjected it to extensive listening
tests. My current power supply consists of the essence. The 
amazing thing after this trail is how easy the circuit is at the end. What I am going to present here in a few
days is not a cheap or low budget project - only the mini PC is. I have been using the Futro for 6 years now and
have replaced it with a NUC7i7 for a about a2 years periode and 
run it with Euphony. For 2 years I liked it better and I had 4 NUC7s to compare the software and hardware 
modifications. Basically I have the same device several times, because only then can modifications actually be 
tracked and optimized. 

As an audio PC, the Futro has many advantages:

- Fanless design

- Favorable price (leasing returns, often available for a few euros)

- Made in Germany !!! Although it now operates under Fujitsu

- Only one power supply unit (20V) required

- modifications are easy.

 

 

@Tanomek7, I've tried almost every power supply on the Futro - including the original power supply, of course. But it is just as unsuitable in terms of sound as the original power supply unit of the NUC. You need al lot of magic until a smps sounds really good.

I would like to present a solution here that clearly beats a NUC7i7DNHE e.g. with SR7 in all cases. So it should be clear that it should not be a low-budget project.

Please, please, if you want to implement this method, do not try any ZeroZone power supplies, Chinese cheap products, Farad3, HDPlex, or comparable power supplies. They just don't do it! There will be no magic at the end. If you want to implement this path, please only use the best power supplies on this planet.

To answer your question further, I use the Neutron Star 2 (3 works too, but I still have 4 unemployed Neutron Star 2, the Neutron Star 3 has no direct advantage through my power supply.) I supply the Neutron Star from the 20V of the futro. The maximum voltage is 24V DC for NS2 and NS3, so that's not a problem. In addition, I use an active filter element and a 10,000uF capacitor in front of the Neutron Star in order to achieve decoupling from the computer. There will be a voltage drop about 1V, so the NS2will run at 19,xx V. There are different stages of expansion, with one NS2 it starts – at the momet I am going with 2 Neutron Stars in my Futro, in a card reader, 2x to supply the Futro internally and later also the USB / Ethernet adapter from Ugreen, which I use. The nice thing is that all 4 devices are supplied with 25MHz. In the last few years I have converted a number of Futros in different versions for friends.

Users with 19V power supplies can rest assured. Most of the Futros also start with 19V

 

 

A little more patience…. Sunny

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[austinpop]

This is very interesting I’m sure, but just a gentle reminder this needs to very quickly get back on topic of direct listening impressions.

 

If this is a product you’re making, it would be helpful to start a thread of its own to discuss the details.

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, sunny_time_99 said:

Hello and thank you for your question. 
At first I would like to give only marginal information about my power supply unit. With over 6 years and 
currently over 600 comparative 
power supplies built, the development path was complex and expensive. I am just self-taught and a hobbyist 
who wants the best power supplyfor his hobby. I had a well-defined goal that has now been achieved. Since 
2016 I have been using active rectification, a material selection that has been tried and tested over countless 
hours, a CLC Filter, an active filter element that is placed in front of the regulator attenuates the 
noise floor by an additional 50-60db, a modified high-performance regulator (mostly LC58xx). I have recreated 
almost every circuit concept (so far there are more than 45 variants) and subjected it to extensive listening
tests. My current power supply consists of the essence. The 
amazing thing after this trail is how easy the circuit is at the end. What I am going to present here in a few
days is not a cheap or low budget project - only the mini PC is. I have been using the Futro for 6 years now and
have replaced it with a NUC7i7 for a about a2 years periode and 
run it with Euphony. For 2 years I liked it better and I had 4 NUC7s to compare the software and hardware 
modifications. Basically I have the same device several times, because only then can modifications actually be 
tracked and optimized. 

As an audio PC, the Futro has many advantages:

- Fanless design

- Favorable price (leasing returns, often available for a few euros)

- Made in Germany !!! Although it now operates under Fujitsu

- Only one power supply unit (20V) required

- modifications are easy.

 

 

@Tanomek7, I've tried almost every power supply on the Futro - including the original power supply, of course. But it is just as unsuitable in terms of sound as the original power supply unit of the NUC. You need al lot of magic until a smps sounds really good.

I would like to present a solution here that clearly beats a NUC7i7DNHE e.g. with SR7 in all cases. So it should be clear that it should not be a low-budget project.

Please, please, if you want to implement this method, do not try any ZeroZone power supplies, Chinese cheap products, Farad3, HDPlex, or comparable power supplies. They just don't do it! There will be no magic at the end. If you want to implement this path, please only use the best power supplies on this planet.

To answer your question further, I use the Neutron Star 2 (3 works too, but I still have 4 unemployed Neutron Star 2, the Neutron Star 3 has no direct advantage through my power supply.) I supply the Neutron Star from the 20V of the futro. The maximum voltage is 24V DC for NS2 and NS3, so that's not a problem. In addition, I use an active filter element and a 10,000uF capacitor in front of the Neutron Star in order to achieve decoupling from the computer. There will be a voltage drop about 1V, so the NS2will run at 19,xx V. There are different stages of expansion, with one NS2 it starts – at the momet I am going with 2 Neutron Stars in my Futro, in a card reader, 2x to supply the Futro internally and later also the USB / Ethernet adapter from Ugreen, which I use. The nice thing is that all 4 devices are supplied with 25MHz. In the last few years I have converted a number of Futros in different versions for friends.

Users with 19V power supplies can rest assured. Most of the Futros also start with 19V

 

 

A little more patience…. Sunny

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello @sunny_time_99, are you a manufacturer or affiliated with the industry in any way?

[sunny_time_99]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Hello @sunny_time_99, are you a manufacturer or affiliated with the industry in any way?

no, as i said, only Hobbyist on the way to find perfect Sound. 

[sunny_time_99]

51 minutes ago, austinpop said:

This is very interesting I’m sure, but just a gentle reminder this needs to very quickly get back on topic of direct listening impressions.

 

If this is a product you’re making, it would be helpful to start a thread of its own to discuss the details.

Hello Austinpop,

 

ok, then pls delete my postings from today, i am going to open an thread for this Topic.

 

regards

 

Sunny

[austinpop]

14 minutes ago, sunny_time_99 said:

Hello Austinpop,

 

ok, then pls delete my postings from today, i am going to open an thread for this Topic.

 

regards

 

Sunny

No deletion necessary. Just post a link here to the new thread for people to follow.

 

If/when anyone has actually done direct and/or comparative listening evaluations, by all means they should post them here.

[Exocer]

Hey All,

There have been plenty of changes in my system over the last two months. Luckily each and every one of them yielded positive results to differing degrees.

• Addition of Mundorf Silver/Gold 15.5AWG wire between HDPlex and motherboard.
  • This allowed me the ability to move from PF kernel to RT kernel without the harshness I experienced initially.
  • Everything just sounds better. It is difficult to describe exactly what happened here.
• 1. Addition of DIY LPSU with SJ DC3 Recap and DC3 modules. (2 rails, 12v, Toroidy Supreme transformer, Mundorf Sg 18awg wiring).
  • This is used to power one Buffalo BS-GS2016P modded to accept DC input. (no clock mods) and my Etherregen.
  • Impressions:
    • More clarity, less haze.
    • More apparent presentation of tonal differences.
    • Improved dynamics slightly
    • More pleasurable presentation overall
• GentooPlayer V3 - Now using RT Min Kernel since it is compatible with Startech Fiber NIC.
  • Compared to ST kernel on previous version, the sound is smoother.
  • Some slight improvements with PRAT
• Paul Hynes SR7T - 12V to EPS 19v to HDPlex 800W DC-ATX
  • Much less grain, especially in higher frequencies.
  • Bass is quite a bit more controlled and prominent.
    • I am now in the process of re-positioning the speakers due to the bass improvements.
  • Much smoother and dynamic presentation
  • While there was a sense of thinness initially (which concerned me) this went away in several hours and the sound is now rich, controlled and dynamic.
  • Many small details have now become more audible. This is very enjoyable!
  • Somehow tones just sound more "right". I wish I had a better way to describe this. 
  • Largest noticable impact of anything listed.
• Upgrade of CPU from i7 8700T to i9 9900K (I have managed to get the i9 to run 5c cooler than the i7 8700T by adding thermal paste to the pipes where they make contact with the HDPlex H5 sidewall and aluminum top heatsink).
  • More effortless presentation
  • More "fun", the dynamics have increased my heart rate in songs i've listened to quite a lot.
  • Improvements in staging and depth! 
  • Second largest impact!

 

There are some plans to introduce more audio specific Ethernet and USB PCI-E cards in the future.

There are no fancy clocks within this build and I am still using a Mini-ITX board so there may be additional gains in going with a full ATX board with more direct to CPU PCI slots etc.. Will plan those upgrades for next year if I see fit.

 

Edit: I forgot the SFP changes - this would rank up there wish the largest differences.

 

I preferred the Finisar "1321" to any other SFPs i've used.

 

Really enjoying the system as-is!

Cheers,

-Rob

[austinpop]

@Exocer

 

Thanks for your report, Rob! Very glad to read about the improvements you're hearing.

[cool_chris]

56 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Hey All,

There have been plenty of changes in my system over the last two months. Luckily each and every one of them yielded positive results to differing degrees.

• Addition of Mundorf Silver/Gold 15.5AWG wire between HDPlex and motherboard.
  • This allowed me the ability to move from PF kernel to RT kernel without the harshness I experienced initially.
  • Everything just sounds better. It is difficult to describe exactly what happened here.
• 1. Addition of DIY LPSU with SJ DC3 Recap and DC3 modules. (2 rails, 12v, Toroidy Supreme transformer, Mundorf Sg 18awg wiring).
  • This is used to power one Buffalo BS-GS2016P modded to accept DC input. (no clock mods) and my Etherregen.
  • Impressions:
    • More clarity, less haze.
    • More apparent presentation of tonal differences.
    • Improved dynamics slightly
    • More pleasurable presentation overall
• GentooPlayer V3 - Now using RT Min Kernel since it is compatible with Startech Fiber NIC.
  • Compared to ST kernel on previous version, the sound is smoother.
  • Some slight improvements with PRAT
• Paul Hynes SR7T - 12V to EPS 19v to HDPlex 800W DC-ATX
  • Much less grain, especially in higher frequencies.
  • Bass is quite a bit more controlled and prominent.
    • I am now in the process of re-positioning the speakers due to the bass improvements.
  • Much smoother and dynamic presentation
  • While there was a sense of thinness initially (which concerned me) this went away in several hours and the sound is now rich, controlled and dynamic.
  • Many small details have now become more audible. This is very enjoyable!
  • Somehow tones just sound more "right". I wish I had a better way to describe this. 
  • Largest noticable impact of anything listed.
• Upgrade of CPU from i7 8700T to i9 9900K (I have managed to get the i9 to run 5c cooler than the i7 8700T by adding thermal paste to the pipes where they make contact with the HDPlex H5 sidewall and aluminum top heatsink).
  • More effortless presentation
  • More "fun", the dynamics have increased my heart rate in songs i've listened to quite a lot.
  • Improvements in staging and depth! 
  • Second largest impact!

 

There are some plans to introduce more audio specific Ethernet and USB PCI-E cards in the future.

There are no fancy clocks within this build and I am still using a Mini-ITX board so there may be additional gains in going with a full ATX board with more direct to CPU PCI slots etc.. Will plan those upgrades for next year if I see fit.

 

Edit: I forgot the SFP changes - this would rank up there wish the largest differences.

 

I preferred the Finisar "1321" to any other SFPs i've used.

 

Really enjoying the system as-is!

Cheers,

-Rob

 

Thank you Rob .

Great you had only positive updates. 

Also thanks for confirming that my favourite SFP Finisar 1321 I found some time ago is also The One for you .

The most well balanced SFP I tried.

 

[exeric2]

8 hours ago, Exocer said:

Hey All,

There have been plenty of changes in my system over the last two months. Luckily each and every one of them yielded positive results to differing degrees.

• Addition of Mundorf Silver/Gold 15.5AWG wire between HDPlex and motherboard.
  • This allowed me the ability to move from PF kernel to RT kernel without the harshness I experienced initially.
  • Everything just sounds better. It is difficult to describe exactly what happened here.
• 1. Addition of DIY LPSU with SJ DC3 Recap and DC3 modules. (2 rails, 12v, Toroidy Supreme transformer, Mundorf Sg 18awg wiring).
  • This is used to power one Buffalo BS-GS2016P modded to accept DC input. (no clock mods) and my Etherregen.
  • Impressions:
    • More clarity, less haze.
    • More apparent presentation of tonal differences.
    • Improved dynamics slightly
    • More pleasurable presentation overall
• GentooPlayer V3 - Now using RT Min Kernel since it is compatible with Startech Fiber NIC.
  • Compared to ST kernel on previous version, the sound is smoother.
  • Some slight improvements with PRAT
• Paul Hynes SR7T - 12V to EPS 19v to HDPlex 800W DC-ATX
  • Much less grain, especially in higher frequencies.
  • Bass is quite a bit more controlled and prominent.
    • I am now in the process of re-positioning the speakers due to the bass improvements.
  • Much smoother and dynamic presentation
  • While there was a sense of thinness initially (which concerned me) this went away in several hours and the sound is now rich, controlled and dynamic.
  • Many small details have now become more audible. This is very enjoyable!
  • Somehow tones just sound more "right". I wish I had a better way to describe this. 
  • Largest noticable impact of anything listed.
• Upgrade of CPU from i7 8700T to i9 9900K (I have managed to get the i9 to run 5c cooler than the i7 8700T by adding thermal paste to the pipes where they make contact with the HDPlex H5 sidewall and aluminum top heatsink).
  • More effortless presentation
  • More "fun", the dynamics have increased my heart rate in songs i've listened to quite a lot.
  • Improvements in staging and depth! 
  • Second largest impact!

 

There are some plans to introduce more audio specific Ethernet and USB PCI-E cards in the future.

There are no fancy clocks within this build and I am still using a Mini-ITX board so there may be additional gains in going with a full ATX board with more direct to CPU PCI slots etc.. Will plan those upgrades for next year if I see fit.

 

Edit: I forgot the SFP changes - this would rank up there wish the largest differences.

 

I preferred the Finisar "1321" to any other SFPs i've used.

 

Really enjoying the system as-is!

Cheers,

-Rob

Good to hear all this. I have an SR-7 coming that has identical rails that will  go to the identical destinations as yours. Who would have thought. You are in an interesting position having all this accomplished but not having new clocks installed. Might I make a suggest to you and to anyone else planning on buying upgraded clock. Look at this thread:

 

Anyone need a 25MHz Crystal/Clock to theirs Buffalo switch, NUC`s or? At Andrea Mori`s Groupbuy at Diyaudio. - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style

 

i found out about it about 4 days ago. The DIY built clocks there are pretty much state of the art.  It will take anyone a bit of time and reading to convince yourself of that but I think you will. The other thing is that not everyone is able to do that kind of work or is temperamental suited (likes) to DIY. Everyone has to determine that for themselves.

 

But the whole significance is that you can build the clock one needs on the cheap. I mean really cheap compared to the PF. They also don't require building the clock inside the switch or motherboard which is an environmental advantage for any noise influence on the clock. It also means you don't have to engineer the clock installation in every switch or music streamer you modify. The clocks can have multiple outputs of the same frequency or of two different frequencies. It is all in the options and additional boards one selects. I am still tutoring myself and have much to learn so I would not be the person to ask about the details; that should be directed to Andrea at the thread at DIYaudio. it just seems like a dynamite direction to go in for upgrading clocks

[realDHT]

16 hours ago, exeric2 said:

Might I make a suggest to you and to anyone else planning on buying upgraded clock. Look at this thread:

 

Anyone need a 25MHz Crystal/Clock to theirs Buffalo switch, NUC`s or? At Andrea Mori`s Groupbuy at Diyaudio. - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style

 

i found out about it about 4 days ago. The DIY built clocks there are pretty much state of the art.  It will take anyone a bit of time and reading to convince yourself of that but I think you will. The other thing is that not everyone is able to do that kind of work or is temperamental suited (likes) to DIY. Everyone has to determine that for themselves.

Since there is also the option to order the clocks assembled and tested, there does not have to be any advanced DIY involved..one would just need to solder the crystal (2 pins) to the board, then put the board in a box and mount contacts and squarer board. Minimum order quantity is now reached for the 25 MHz (6.25) and order status now looking quite good for the 24 MHz (6.00) also 😀

[barrows]

I would like to order a 25 MHz variant, but looking at the pages at diyaudio, my mind starts to go numb and I just cannot figure it out with all of the options.

 

If I want a single output, 25 MHz, clock board, what exactly do i need to order and where?  I just do not have hours to spend on figuring this all out.  I am able to solder and DIY fine with the parts sizes I see in the pictures.

[RickyV]

23 minutes ago, realDHT said:

Since there is also the option to order the clocks assembled and tested, there does not have to be any advanced DIY involved..one would just need to solder the crystal (2 pins) to the board, then put the board in a box and mount contacts and squarer board. Minimum order quantity is now reached for the 25 MHz (6.25) and order status now looking quite good for the 24 MHz (6.00) also 😀

Well I am tempted by these clocks but it is to confusing, what do I need, so many parts and possibilities.

I just would like a 24 and a 25Mhz clock best crystal, transformer coupled, square wave out and finished boards. So what do I need?

[realDHT]

26 minutes ago, barrows said:

I would like to order a 25 MHz variant, but looking at the pages at diyaudio, my mind starts to go numb and I just cannot figure it out with all of the options.

 

If I want a single output, 25 MHz, clock board, what exactly do i need to order and where?  I just do not have hours to spend on figuring this all out.  I am able to solder and DIY fine with the parts sizes I see in the pictures.

Barrows and Ricky

 

I have linked the order form and shared spreadsheet here.

 

Yes it's a jungle out there :) What you need to do is fill in the order form with your details and what you want to order, the email to andrea (see adress in order form), then please update the spreadsheet in order for others to be able to estimate the minimum order quantity status.

 

Barrows, for you I recommend the semifinished version, you will have to source and solder some standard components according to the BOM list, you need to order this for the sine oscillator:

1 x TWTMC-PXO-AIO-SF

1 x TWTMC-PXO-AIO-XFMR

1x 6.2500 MHz AT-cut

then you need a squarer, you can order either

1 X TWTMC-STS-SX

or

1x TWTMC-STS-FSDO-F (if you need/want distribution cabability)

 

Ricky if you want assembled versions of 24 and 25 you need:

2 x TWTMC-PXO-AIO-F

1x 6.0000 MHz AT-cut

1x 6.2500 MHz AT-cut

and for the squaring:

2 X TWTMC-STS-SX

or 

1x TWTMC-STS-FSDO-F (if you need/want distribution cabability, it can also handle both the 24 and the 25, because it has 2 independent squaring/distribution sections)

 

I think we are somewhat off topic in this thread so we can continue discussion if you want in the thread I linked or in the other clock thread that was started by Bassilus.

 

 

[austinpop]

11 minutes ago, realDHT said:

 

I think we are somewhat off topic in this thread so we can continue discussion if you want in the thread I linked or in the other clock thread that was started by Bassilus.

Thanks from OP!

 

I would strongly suggest that.

[Marcin_gps]

Speaking of power supplies, there is sth that I am proud of and have to share :) 

 

[John769]

At least one person (but possibly a few) posted their recommend settings with the buffalo switches (using the configuration tool), but I cannot find anything after almost an hour searching. If someone could repost, I'd be most grateful.  

[Nenon]

5 hours ago, John769 said:

At least one person (but possibly a few) posted their recommend settings with the buffalo switches (using the configuration tool), but I cannot find anything after almost an hour searching. If someone could repost, I'd be most grateful.  

Search for keyword lldp. 

[John769]

@Nenon found it, thanks.!

[ASRMichael]

Hi, I didn't post this on this thread yet, as don't have any listening impressions yet. But will hopefully have in a week or so time.

 

 

[bobfa]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:12 PM, austinpop said:

 

Hi Ted,

 

Actually, you may have hit on the perfect solution — use an offline HQPlayer Pro to generate the upsampled files. Yes it requires a lot of storage (which is relatively cheap), but it does mean that during playback, you can adhere to a bit-perfect regime.

 

 

Of course, this is still a problem, and a real head-scratcher. But for DSD upsamplers, this may be a small price to pay to optimize the playback path.

 

 

Add to this.  Figure out how to do the room correction in the same or second pass at the data and you do not need to run that at the same time as playback.  Ticks off two boxes right away.  

[barrows]

I am not sure I am that patient, even with Optane memory as a cache, waiting for a 90-120 minute DSD 512 album file to fully load before playback seems a bit bothersome, as does taking all that time to oversample and store all music files!  But it is no more trying than dealing with LPs I guess.  Although I personally prefer digital playback and I like the convenience of nearly instant playback.

[HumanMedia]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:07 PM, Tatomek7 said:

If you would like to test it ( FTLF1318P3BTL ), I have one and not in use at the moment. ( Warsaw ).

Go on @cool_chris - take him up on it, what is one more to compare and this might be even better. You are the best person to compare them. Wont you need two, one at each end to match receiver sensitivity?