A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[sandyk]

22 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

They are slow blow.  For whatever reason, the blue fuses can be (but not necessarily are) more sensitive than standard fuses of similar type and rating.

 

 At what stage do they blow, at start up, or randomly ?

 If Paul is fine with a higher rated slow blow type , then just do that.

[austinpop]

54 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

What fuse ended up working with the SR7?

 

40 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

With SR blue fuses, you can use a multiple of 1.3 to 1.6x what Paul used in your build.  You really should check the fuse in your SR7.  The fuses may vary along with the builds.

 

Since SR-7's are custom builds, I don't believe there is a standard rating. Eric's SR-7 has 2 DR rails, each 6A, rated 3-13V and 9-19V. Paul had sent it with a 3.15A fuse, I believe. On Paul's advice we ended up replacing it with a 5A fuse. I'm talking standard cheap fuses from Fry's.

 

As @auricgoldfinger says, 1.3x to 1.6x is standard for SR Blue fuses.

 

However, there is a part 2 to the story of blowing fuses in Eric's SR-7. We had another episode very recently, when we were adjusting the voltages of both rails, and again, even the 5A fuse blew out a couple times. We hypothesized there was a loose connection in one of the terminal blocks that was getting perturbed when using the little screw to adjust voltage. I went through and tightened every screw in every terminal block in the entire PSU (a LOT). After that, no blow outs. So it's possible the original 3.15A fuse was actually fine all along.

[Dutch]

Same here; I had a 3.15A fuse (HiFi Tuning) blow in my SR-7 EHD MR4 at second power-on. I’ve replaced it with a 5A Synergistic Black fuse (the Blue didn’t exist yet back then) after consulting with Paul Hynes. It’s been fine since installation. The original fuse was a 3.15A.

 

Fuses sureley have an effect of the resulting SQ of the SR7. The HiFi-Tuning one wasn’t to my liking. De SR one very much.

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, Dutch said:

Same here; I had a 3.15A fuse (HiFi Tuning) blow in my SR-7 EHD MR4 at second power-on. I’ve replaced it with a 5A Synergistic Black fuse (the Blue didn’t exist yet back then) after consulting with Paul Hynes. It’s been fine since installation. The original fuse was a 3.15A.

 

Fuses sureley have an effect of the resulting SQ of the SR7. The HiFi-Tuning one wasn’t to my liking. De SR one very much.

 

Someday you should try a blue fuse.  You won't be disappointed.

[str-1]

Recent talk of SR7s and fuses coincides with my current ponderings on whether to continue trying to order an SR7, upgrade my 5v-12v SR4 to the 9v-19v model, or stick with what I've got.

 

I would be grateful for any thoughts on what generally speaking would now be considered the more useful of the two SR4 voltage ranges.

 

My current needs are relatively simple and would be met by either SR4 option.  My system is: ISP Modem/Router->Zenith SE->standard tX-USBultra (SR4 9v)->M Scaler (smps)->DAVE. 

 

I am currently using the SR4 on the tX-U at 9v, and could also use it to power the M Scaler at 12v (should I ever be prepared to risk the warranty).  But I think there is potential for the 9v-19v model to sound even better with both devices.  There should be less stress powering the tX-U at 12v (which I can take it up to with internal switch adjustment) and there seems to be a growing weight of evidence suggesting that 15v would be the sweet-spot for the M Scaler.

Paul Hynes has quoted me a very modest price for upgrading my unit to 9v-19v (the cost of postage is not prohibitive as I live the in the UK) and that would seem to be a good choice for me at the moment.  But what of the future.  I don't think it likely I will ever go down the NUC road but if I get back into using renderers and maybe get an audiophile switch would I find my options limited through having lost the 5v-7v power options?  I notice that Sonore usually recommend 7v with their products (with a qualified approval of 9v).  But then items with similar function from SOtM seem fine at 9v and above.

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

 

[auricgoldfinger]

42 minutes ago, str-1 said:

Recent talk of SR7s and fuses coincides with my current ponderings on whether to continue trying to order an SR7, upgrade my 5v-12v SR4 to the 9v-19v model, or stick with what I've got.

 

I would be grateful for any thoughts on what generally speaking would now be considered the more useful of the two SR4 voltage ranges.

 

My current needs are relatively simple and would be met by either SR4 option.  My system is: ISP Modem/Router->Zenith SE->standard tX-USBultra (SR4 9v)->M Scaler (smps)->DAVE. 

 

I am currently using the SR4 on the tX-U at 9v, and could also use it to power the M Scaler at 12v (should I ever be prepared to risk the warranty).  But I think there is potential for the 9v-19v model to sound even better with both devices.  There should be less stress powering the tX-U at 12v (which I can take it up to with internal switch adjustment) and there seems to be a growing weight of evidence suggesting that 15v would be the sweet-spot for the M Scaler.

Paul Hynes has quoted me a very modest price for upgrading my unit to 9v-19v (the cost of postage is not prohibitive as I live the in the UK) and that would seem to be a good choice for me at the moment.  But what of the future.  I don't think it likely I will ever go down the NUC road but if I get back into using renderers and maybe get an audiophile switch would I find my options limited through having lost the 5v-7v power options?  I notice that Sonore usually recommend 7v with their products (with a qualified approval of 9v).  But then items with similar function from SOtM seem fine at 9v and above.

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

 

 

I was unimpressed by an SR7 DR at 12V powering my M-Scaler, so I don't believe there would be any benefit to using an SR4 at 12V on your M-Scaler.

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, str-1 said:

Recent talk of SR7s and fuses coincides with my current ponderings on whether to continue trying to order an SR7, upgrade my 5v-12v SR4 to the 9v-19v model, or stick with what I've got.

 

I would be grateful for any thoughts on what generally speaking would now be considered the more useful of the two SR4 voltage ranges.

 

My current needs are relatively simple and would be met by either SR4 option.  My system is: ISP Modem/Router->Zenith SE->standard tX-USBultra (SR4 9v)->M Scaler (smps)->DAVE. 

 

I am currently using the SR4 on the tX-U at 9v, and could also use it to power the M Scaler at 12v (should I ever be prepared to risk the warranty).  But I think there is potential for the 9v-19v model to sound even better with both devices.  There should be less stress powering the tX-U at 12v (which I can take it up to with internal switch adjustment) and there seems to be a growing weight of evidence suggesting that 15v would be the sweet-spot for the M Scaler.

Paul Hynes has quoted me a very modest price for upgrading my unit to 9v-19v (the cost of postage is not prohibitive as I live the in the UK) and that would seem to be a good choice for me at the moment.  But what of the future.  I don't think it likely I will ever go down the NUC road but if I get back into using renderers and maybe get an audiophile switch would I find my options limited through having lost the 5v-7v power options?  I notice that Sonore usually recommend 7v with their products (with a qualified approval of 9v).  But then items with similar function from SOtM seem fine at 9v and above.

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

 

 

Paul's PSUs operate best at the highest voltage in the offered range, since that is their "rated" voltage. All lower voltages have to dissipate heat and reduce the current capacity. From an earlier price sheet, he wrote:

Lower voltage settings than maximum will increase the voltage
across the regulator output device, which will increase the heat generated in this
device. To maintain safe operating temperatures and long term reliability the current
rating should be de-rated by 8% per volt when reducing the output voltage level on
variable output voltage versions.

 

So you would get more current from your 12V SR-4, than from a 19V SR-4 set to 12V.

 

Since SR-4's are even more economical when you're UK-based, I'd recommend just getting another 9-19V unit. From my experience, you can never have too many of these things available, as things change so much in the digital transport world. But that's just me.

[elan120]

After reading inputs on music storage solutions from members here, I decided to try connecting an external HDD to music server via USB cable.  With everything stock, SQ seems on par with my LPS powered NAS, replacing the stock USB cable with JSSG360 Lush appear to have a subtle improvement, but an obvious uptick in SQ came from having JS-2 replacing the stock wallwart.

 

Now I wonder if any of you also experience this, and if not, where do your local music files stored?

 

With this new found experience, I plan on making some mods by removing the switching regulator out of this external HDD enclosure, replacing few caps to better quality/spec caps, and finally, if all these DC section mods improve SQ further, I will change out the clock to either a femto or OXCO oscillator and see if that will take the SQ even further.

 

Inputs or suggestions?

[bobfa]

On 2/24/2019 at 5:49 PM, mikicasellas said:

AL with the Isolated cores, sound is more precise but less forgiving, a little on the "harsh" side with some records, is this finding the regular consensus?

I had only tried isolating cores for a couple of days.  My results echo your statement above.  I did not test long enough.  When I messed with the NUC doing this I had done a couple of other things and there were too many changes so I backed them all off and had not gotten back to isolation yet.  There were some recent changes to the AL menu for isolation that I want to understand and go back and try after I complete my server testing.

[auricgoldfinger]

11 minutes ago, elan120 said:

an obvious uptick in SQ came from having JS-2 replacing the stock wallwart.

 

Any benefit to using the JS-2 with your NAS?  Does it bring the NAS to the level of the external HDD powered by the JS-2?

[elan120]

1 minute ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Any benefit to using the JS-2 with your NAS?  Does it bring the NAS to the level of the external HDD powered by the JS-2?

JS-2 does improve SQ from NAS, but external HDD with JS-2 is a step better still.  I will see if I can allocate some time to have it connect to either a JCAT USB Femto card or SOtM txUSBexp to see if that will also help.

[tboooe]

1 minute ago, elan120 said:

JS-2 does improve SQ from NAS, but external HDD with JS-2 is a step better still.  I will see if I can allocate some time to have it connect to either a JCAT USB Femto card or SOtM txUSBexp to see if that will also help.

To add more options, I have been toying with the idea of using my the second NVME m2 slot on my mobo for music storage.  A while back I changed my OS drive to an Intel Optane NVME and thought there was an improvement.

[tapatrick]

17 minutes ago, bobfa said:

I had only tried isolating cores for a couple of days.  My results echo your statement above.  I did not test long enough.  When I messed with the NUC doing this I had done a couple of other things and there were too many changes so I backed them all off and had not gotten back to isolation yet.  There were some recent changes to the AL menu for isolation that I want to understand and go back and try after I complete my server testing.

Likewise I’ve been trying to get iso cores on my end point and have given up as can’t get it to work. I did get it successfully set up on my server okay with good SQ improvement but not sure why it won’t work on endpoint. 

 

[elan120]

3 minutes ago, tboooe said:

To add more options, I have been toying with the idea of using my the second NVME m2 slot on my mobo for music storage.  A while back I changed my OS drive to an Intel Optane NVME and thought there was an improvement.

Intel Optane drive does help bring improvements as an OS drive.  I switched from Samsung M.2 970 to Intel Optane SSD 900P (280GB) few months ago on my music server as OS drive with very good result, and also tested it against my NAS as music file storage, and they appear to be on par, or at least I can't seem to differentiate anything different between them.  So far, this external HDD is the only one provided an obvious improvement.

[tboooe]

7 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Intel Optane drive does help bring improvements as an OS drive.  I switched from Samsung M.2 970 to Intel Optane SSD 900P (280GB) few months ago on my music server as OS drive with very good result, and also tested it against my NAS as music file storage, and they appear to be on par, or at least I can't seem to differentiate anything different between them.  So far, this external HDD is the only one provided an obvious improvement.

Interesting...which make and model external HDD are you using?  I wonder how it compares against internal/external SSD?

[elan120]

3 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Interesting...which make and model external HDD are you using?  I wonder how it compares against internal/external SSD?

The enclosure is made by Inateck (model FE3001) and HDD is WD Black (model WD4005FZBX).

 

I pick this enclosure for their size and PCB layout for modification purposes, their use of ASM1153E chipset also has good reviews.

 

 

[jean-michel6]

Internal SSD vs HDD to store your music. 

 

I am in dual pc set up highly optimized and until now I had been storing my music on two Samsung 1tb SSD with some expensive pachanko sata cable. 

I was needing more space for my music and I ordered a 3tb Toshiba 2’5” hdd that I connected in usb. 

I was in for several good surprise. I am using Daphile and you can preload in ram the music played by the server. 

I did compare the same file loaded from the SSD and the HDD. Even though it is played from ram , the file loaded from the HDD always sound better. 

Then i disconnect the power to the SSD and I got an other nice sq increase. 

I then deactivated the sata in the bios and got an other nice sq increase. 

I have now a very organic and analogically sound in my system , there is no way back. 

 

Several conclusions , SSD are very noisy and you should definitely not used them in your system. 

Eventhough that I had in ram exactly the same file coming from the SSD or the HDD , since the HDD file sounded consistently better , it means that the noise coming from the SSD is somewhat stored also in the ram. 

 

 

[tboooe]

4 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Eventhough that I had in ram exactly the same file coming from the SSD or the HDD , since the HDD file sounded consistently better , it means that the noise coming from the SSD is somewhat stored also in the ram. 

So you are now storing your music on an external 2.5" HDD connected to your PC via USB?  That's it?  Nothing extra in between like fancy usb cable or decrapifiers? 

[Johnseye]

On 2/25/2019 at 5:58 PM, austinpop said:

 

 

Since SR-7's are custom builds, I don't believe there is a standard rating. Eric's SR-7 has 2 DR rails, each 6A, rated 3-13V and 9-19V. Paul had sent it with a 3.15A fuse, I believe. On Paul's advice we ended up replacing it with a 5A fuse. I'm talking standard cheap fuses from Fry's.

 

As @auricgoldfinger says, 1.3x to 1.6x is standard for SR Blue fuses.

 

However, there is a part 2 to the story of blowing fuses in Eric's SR-7. We had another episode very recently, when we were adjusting the voltages of both rails, and again, even the 5A fuse blew out a couple times. We hypothesized there was a loose connection in one of the terminal blocks that was getting perturbed when using the little screw to adjust voltage. I went through and tightened every screw in every terminal block in the entire PSU (a LOT). After that, no blow outs. So it's possible the original 3.15A fuse was actually fine all along.

 

My SR7 and Eric's are nearly if not completely identical although one of my regs was rated at 3A.  I'm checking whether the 19v was 3A or 6A.  That's the one that failed and likely related to what Paul mentioned in my thread.  When he replaced it last July he did so with a 6A.  My question is why use a 3.15A fuse with a 6A supply?

 

 

[austinpop]

20 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

My SR7 and Eric's are nearly if not completely identical although one of my regs was rated at 3A.  I'm checking whether the 19v was 3A or 6A.  That's the one that failed and likely related to what Paul mentioned in my thread.  When he replaced it last July he did so with a 6A.  My question is why use a 3.15A fuse with a 6A supply?

 

 

 

3.15A is at the input 120V AC end of the transformer. It’s way more power (VA) than 6A DC at the rail voltages.

 

Make sense?

[Johnseye]

18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

3.15A is at the input 120V AC end of the transformer. It’s way more power (VA) than 6A DC at the rail voltages.

 

Make sense?

 

Yup, just my lack of understanding of how fuses work in power supplies.  Thanks for clarifying.

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

Several conclusions , SSD are very noisy and you should definitely not used them in your system. 

Eventhough that I had in ram exactly the same file coming from the SSD or the HDD , since the HDD file sounded consistently better , it means that the noise coming from the SSD is somewhat stored also in the ram. 

 That's why it is best to avoid using SSDs powered from the motherboard. It's far better to power internal SSDs from an additional low noise +5V voltage regulator using the +12V rail for it's input, for improved isolation from each other and other sensitive areas via the power supply. Internal SSDs are then able to readily outperform HDDs for SQ..

 I use a dual Low noise Voltage regulator PCB with 2 separate +5V outputs via John Linsley Hood designed <4uV noise PSU add-ons.

 Unfortunately, this is DIY.

[the_doc735]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

3.15A is at the input 120V AC end of the transformer. It’s way more power (VA) than 6A DC at the rail voltages.

 

Make sense?

"NO!" ??? sorry for being dense! (LOL)

[the_doc735]

4 hours ago, sandyk said:

 That's why it is best to avoid using SSDs powered from the motherboard. It's far better to power internal SSDs from an additional low noise +5V voltage regulator using the +12V rail for it's input, for improved isolation from each other and other sensitive areas via the power supply. Internal SSDs are then able to readily outperform HDDs for SQ..

 I use a dual Low noise Voltage regulator PCB with 2 separate +5V outputs via John Linsley Hood designed <4uV noise PSU add-ons.

 Unfortunately, this is DIY.

 

My Syn. DS218+ NAS has one SSD for O/S and a second SSD for music storage each has a SOtM sata filter. The NAS has a SOtM fan filter and an ultra quiet Noctura fan (with speed resistor) + LPSU. This is running the syn. DSM 6.2.1. O/S and roon server. This is connected to a Son. microrendu 1.4 via FMC isolation, all powered by LPSU's. The SSD's are powered by the NAS itself.

Do you (OR ANYONE) have any suggestions for minor to major upgrades for increased sound quality at an affordable price point?

[jean-michel6]

21 hours ago, tboooe said:

So you are now storing your music on an external 2.5" HDD connected to your PC via USB?  That's it?  Nothing extra in between like fancy usb cable or decrapifiers? 

Nothing extras , it is just connected on the pc server.