I have had it with Roon, their lack of support, their user forum, and it's users...

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

This one would be way too funny and I just couldn't resist since I'm also an Asian myself, my classmates and I were constantly making fun of our teachers back in our high school days

 

https://www.vox.com/videos/2019/3/26/18282192/asian-accent-l-and-r

 

Looney Tunes FTW.

 

I had a great professor in college who was an asian gentleman and he was infamous for pronouncing the word "focus" so that it sounded like "fuck us" We would ask questions in such a way to get him to say the word focus...

[AudioDoctor]

33 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

Chris, did you make sure you stood apart, at a 45 degree angle, so you couldn't look them in the eye? I was always told that is how people in Minnesota have a conversation. 😁 And don't forget to use the phrase, 'Could Be Worse'

 

It can almost always be worse... Don't tempt the weather here.

[R1200CL]

Nice this one. 
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-build-806-is-live/164798

 

I will link to this tread here, so we can discuss better SQ also 😀

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-build-806-feedback/164804

 

[4est]

20 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Well, I think 24/96 and above is hi res. MQA or not. 

Upsampling does not make a file high resolution.

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, 4est said:

Upsampling does not make a file high resolution.

Wishing is probably more effective.

[AudioDoctor]

13 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Nice this one. 
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-build-806-is-live/164798

 

I will link to this tread here, so we can discuss better SQ also 😀

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-build-806-feedback/164804

 

 

Thats all the stuff that is processing in the background while music is playing...

 

Is there any reason it can't be done at some other time?

 

edit: Perhaps I missed it someplace, but I didn't see a single person mention sound quality. Maybe it just doesn't matter to them.

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Thats all the stuff that is processing in the background while music is playing...

 

Is there any reason it can't be done at some other time?

Roon backups won’t run if audio is playing. Seems like the logic is there, but not used during other operations. 

[AudioDoctor]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Roon backups won’t run if audio is playing. Seems like the logic is there, but not used during other operations. 

 

You're right, I have noticed that before when I was sucked into the music till the wee hours of the morning.

[March Audio]

After about 24 hours of playing the memory usage went up 110Mb, but nothing else happened.  I will keep monitoring to see if there is a leak.

 

[AudioDoctor]

I thought I would check out the update... I still have a lifetime license after all...

 

and this happened. It crashes on start. I can still control it from my phone and iPad however.

[March Audio]

5 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

I thought I would check out the update... I still have a lifetime license after all...

 

and this happened. It crashes on start. I can still control it from my phone and iPad however.

Screen Recording 2021-07-07 at 9.45.09 PM.mov

aaaahh, so you are using a MAC?

 

In that case any diagnostics/examination I try on my PC is going to be irrelevant.

[AudioDoctor]

5 minutes ago, March Audio said:

aaaahh, so you are using a MAC?

 

In that case any diagnostics/examination I try on my PC is going to be irrelevant.

 

Just as a control point, my server runs linux. The crash was due to the non standard theme. 

 

edit: My server has been up for 1 day and 5 hours, it is using 9.5GB of RAM in total and Roon is using 3GB by itself. However, RAM usage isn't the problem, it's the background processing that causes a loss of sound quality.

[March Audio]

12 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Just as a control point, my server runs linux. The crash was due to the non standard theme. 

 

edit: My server has been up for 1 day and 5 hours, it is using 9.5GB of RAM in total and Roon is using 3GB by itself. However, RAM usage isn't the problem, it's the background processing that causes a loss of sound quality.

Ok :)

 

I would have thought you could tie in any background process with something in the logs to identify it.

 

Accessing Logs (roonlabs.com)

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, March Audio said:

After about 24 hours of playing the memory usage went up 110Mb, but nothing else happened.  I will keep monitoring to see if there is a leak.

 

Is the screen shot of Roon Bridge or the Core?

[March Audio]

4 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Is the screen shot of Roon Bridge or the Core?

Core

[jhwalker]

4 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Thats all the stuff that is processing in the background while music is playing...

 

Is there any reason it can't be done at some other time?

 

edit: Perhaps I missed it someplace, but I didn't see a single person mention sound quality. Maybe it just doesn't matter to them.

 

The orthodoxy from the Roon team is that bitperfect software is bitperfect; therefore, any discussion of "sound quality" is moot.  They do not acknowledge the possibility of sound quality differences other than from DSP or faulty hardware, etc. - at least as far as I can tell in reading the site and comments from Roon itself.

[katools]

Their architecture is client/server and they recommend you connect through a client (endpoint) and not directly through the server.

 

I may be deaf because I’ve never found the server to have any influence on perceived SQ, but have found the endpoint can/does.

 

Irrespective, it’s a bug ridden, leaky pile of crap front end for streaming.

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, jhwalker said:

 

The orthodoxy from the Roon team is that bitperfect software is bitperfect; therefore, any discussion of "sound quality" is moot.  They do not acknowledge the possibility of sound quality differences other than from DSP or faulty hardware, etc. - at least as far as I can tell in reading the site and comments from Roon itself.

The article is deleted, but I remember Michal Logva compared Sonictransporter vs a NUC, and he found sound differences. 
 

I would assume windows or Mac may have more processes ongoing than a clean installation like ROCK or the Sonictransporter. 
 

It could be interesting with some testing, if anyone is up to it.

Maybe something you could do Chris, using your Sonore endpoint ?

 

Optical transfer ought to secure that possible unwanted loops from the PC in use, will affect the results. An FMC like the opticalModule or EtherRegen should do. And use singel mode fiber. 

[Pappy Boyington]

I think the main tension between Roon and its user base -- other than the fanboys -- is that Roon is very taxing on some system components, including being quite finnicky about networking, and potentially having resource leaks on some operating systems.  And they never have chased down some bugs that have existed for a long time.  They don't even seem to admit to many of them. 

 

So Roon support, and maybe the Roon team generally, instead of looking inward at their product to make it less demanding, look outward at user's systems and expect a whole lot of troubleshooting, reconfiguring of otherwise working gear/networks, and workarounds etc. to get Roon working smoothly.  Roon is the only software I've ever seen where a standard recommendation is to reconfigure your DNS to please the software.  

 

Roon does complex things.  It's natural there are hitches in doing so.  However, for the premium price of Roon, one would expect a more premium experience. At the very least, one would like to see more attention paid to stable functionality.  You know things are not going smoothly when it takes 6-8 weeks for a response from support...they must be busy!

 

(To put it out there, yes, I've had my problems with Roon stability albeit I am a heavy user and really do love the basic functions.  I have multiple houses, different Roon implementations, all have the same issues, and so it's unlikely those issues are specific to a given configuration.)

[AudioDoctor]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

The article is deleted, but I remember Michal Logva compared Sonictransporter vs a NUC, and he found sound differences. 
 

I would assume windows or Mac may have more processes ongoing than a clean installation like ROCK or the Sonictransporter. 
 

It could be interesting with some testing, if anyone is up to it.

Maybe something you could do Chris, using your Sonore endpoint ?

 

Optical transfer ought to secure that possible unwanted loops from the PC in use, will affect the results. An FMC like the opticalModule or EtherRegen should do. And use singel mode fiber. 

 

I have a Sonore Singnature Rendu as well...

 

It's probably related to a bug instead of general processing, but Roon has at times used the entire processor and crashed to the point music stopped and the server needed rebooting.

[Foggie]

I would sure like to read the OP's thread over there (maybe I missed the link).  I have seen a lot of requests for many things on that forum w/o "issue" and there are plenty of people that rip the product daily, maybe they too are all banned.  I mean it doesn't seem any different than most other forums in so far as a'holes, the noise makers etc..    There have been some epic threads here. 

 

Dunno, maybe I just don't spend a ton of time there and or keep scrolling through the noise

 

Again there are indiv that defend to ridiculous and childish lengths their choices, setups, products they use and claim none better and am right you are wrong, but that's pretty much every forum?  I suppose some have more than other forums.

 

I sympathize with the OP's predicament and when one gets into a situation when all of a sudden their audio setup/products are either not working, or producing sub optimal results, one would expect its only logical to seek assistance / provide feedback.  If that's met with difficulties and a'holes I would be pissed as well.  Frustrating for sure. 

 

I have tried so many times to get audirvanna (trial) to work, and have reached out in different forums and although did receive some things to try it still doesn't work.  I only mention this in the context of how frustrating it is to be sort of "stuck"

[wklie]

On 7/5/2021 at 3:17 AM, R1200CL said:

So how can SQ be improvement ? Does anyone at Roon or you know ?

 

Are you aware of the arguments with two server manufacturers?  I think they provide valuable insights.  I also shared some interesting findings from another forum, but as expected they are categorically dismissed by the majority of members in an objective forum.

[AudioDoctor]

56 minutes ago, Foggie said:

I would sure like to read the OP's thread over there (maybe I missed the link).  I have seen a lot of requests for many things on that forum w/o "issue" and there are plenty of people that rip the product daily, maybe they too are all banned.  I mean it doesn't seem any different than most other forums in so far as a'holes, the noise makers etc..    There have been some epic threads here. 

 

Dunno, maybe I just don't spend a ton of time there and or keep scrolling through the noise

 

Again there are indiv that defend to ridiculous and childish lengths their choices, setups, products they use and claim none better and am right you are wrong, but that's pretty much every forum?  I suppose some have more than other forums.

 

I sympathize with the OP's predicament and when one gets into a situation when all of a sudden their audio setup/products are either not working, or producing sub optimal results, one would expect its only logical to seek assistance / provide feedback.  If that's met with difficulties and a'holes I would be pissed as well.  Frustrating for sure. 

 

I have tried so many times to get audirvanna (trial) to work, and have reached out in different forums and although did receive some things to try it still doesn't work.  I only mention this in the context of how frustrating it is to be sort of "stuck"

 

Letting random internet people offer your support is a pretty terrible way of conducting business because it ends up boiling down to whatever the prevailing groupthink is, and it shows the developers lack of consideration for their product. I have tried getting support there, jumped through all their hoops, offered all the requested information, only to have them blame my network and say that Roon "works differently from other programs" Which I guess is all of them because the only one having issues is Roon... I have no network issues that aren't caused by user error. It's robust and works perfectly and there isn't a single piece of software that doesn't work as intended on it. Except Roon because the official word is, it works differently... That's a them problem, not a me problem. I was once told that they would remote into my Roon and see what the problem was... that was ~6 months ago and I have not heard a peep back.

 

They deleted my thread and I received a nasty email from an admin. Apparently I am just supposed to bend over and take it when the group decides the software is perfect and I have the audacity to suggest there is room for improvement.

 

edit: The problem I was having that caused them to say they would remote into my system and log its activity to see what was going on, it has stopped happening. So... they probably saw the problem, fixed it, and decided to keep their mouths shut about it after blaming everything they could on my end.

[botrytis]

13 minutes ago, wklie said:

 

Are you aware of the arguments with two server manufacturers?  I think they provide valuable insights.  I also shared some interesting findings from another forum, but as expected they are categorically dismissed by the majority of members in an objective forum.

 

Well, measurements are more sensitive than ears and are not skewed by how our hearing works.

[AudioDoctor]

5 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

Well, measurements are more sensitive than ears and are not skewed by how our hearing works.

 

Which device do you use to measure sound quality?