I have had it with Roon, their lack of support, their user forum, and it's users...

[lucretius]

10 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

That's a bummer. Can you sign up with a VPN like people did before it was available in the US?

 

You would need a US credit card or a US Paypal account.

[Pappy Boyington]

55 minutes ago, SimoneF said:

Still I will continue to use it since there isn't anything like Roon on the market, and I've tried pretty much all the "audiophile" players

This is really where the rubber hits the road.  There isn't anything like Roon in terms of RAAT and multizone management.  Integration with both local and streaming services is also still a killer feature.  This is probably one reason they seem a bit complacent about user issues.

 

I don't buy this whole thing that there are 100 users with issues and 200k happy users.  I think it's that there are 200 users that really push Roon to its capabilities and 50% of them have problems, and the other 199,800 users use one zone and one remote and stream Tidal and it works fine at that simple level.  

[SimoneF]

6 minutes ago, Pappy Boyington said:

This is really where the rubber hits the road.  There isn't anything like Roon in terms of RAAT and multizone management.  Integration with both local and streaming services is also still a killer feature.  This is probably one reason they seem a bit complacent about user issues.

 

I don't buy this whole thing that there are 100 users with issues and 200k happy users.  I think it's that there are 200 users that really push Roon to its capabilities and 50% of them have problems, and the other 199,800 users use one zone and one remote and stream Tidal and it works fine at that simple level.  

I agree for different reason, multiroom and Qobuz and Tidal integration is already present on LMS, for free (and I find the Slimproto protocol to be way more flexible and efficient than RAAT). How's the Roon radios works and the DSP is what led me to spend 700$ for it.

[miguelito]

14 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

I know you've said this before, and it's almost like you want it to happen, but I just don't see those millions of thirteen year old Billie Eilish and Lil Nas X fans abandoning Qobuz and Roon

I don't want it to happen, but I fear it will.

 

Tidal has (purportedly) 3m users, Qobuz has say 200k. Roon has about 100k. So a small fraction of Tidal and Qobuz users are Roon users, which means by and large the vast majority of those users use the native apps. For those users, switching to Apple Music is not a big change, and at 1/2 the cost at least (I actually get Apple Music free with my phone plan).

 

So when you do that math you realize Tidal and Qobuz are at high risk of losing a large number of subscribers. If Tidal and Qobuz fold, and without Apple Music integration in Roon, Roon will be much less useful to me, frankly.

[The Computer Audiophile]

30 minutes ago, miguelito said:

I don't want it to happen, but I fear it will.

 

Tidal has (purportedly) 3m users, Qobuz has say 200k. Roon has about 100k. So a small fraction of Tidal and Qobuz users are Roon users, which means by and large the vast majority of those users use the native apps. For those users, switching to Apple Music is not a big change, and at 1/2 the cost at least (I actually get Apple Music free with my phone plan).

 

So when you do that math you realize Tidal and Qobuz are at high risk of losing a large number of subscribers. If Tidal and Qobuz fold, and without Apple Music integration in Roon, Roon will be much less useful to me, frankly.

Roon could just offer it’s own native streaming service, rebranded from a white label service. 

[katools]

1 hour ago, miguelito said:

don't want it to happen, but I fear it will.

Personally I would love to see them fail.  Their product is architecturally flawed, it's bug ridden, they're arrogant and they disrespect their customers. Their COO should be muzzled.

 

 

[rn701]

5 hours ago, Pappy Boyington said:

There isn't anything like Roon in terms of RAAT and multizone management. 

 

Actually, JRiver does a decent job. But,  no streaming integration, antiquated UI, and stubborn, abrasive ownership.

[miguelito]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Roon could just offer it’s own native streaming service, rebranded from a white label service. 

Ok that's very interesting.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, miguelito said:

Ok that's very interesting.

Here's one option - https://www.7digital.com/music-platform-as-a-service/

 

 

[rn701]

1 minute ago, miguelito said:

Ok that's very interesting.

 

I'm thinking roon could acquire qobuz at this point.

[miguelito]

4 minutes ago, rn701 said:

I'm thinking roon could acquire qobuz at this point.

I think there are a LOT more nuances to this. Qobuz surely has a lot of venture funding with expectations of performance, it is almost certainly not as simple as buying the firm.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Much more likely to happen is Roon getting acquired by a company that already has a streaming service. 

[miguelito]

14 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Much more likely to happen is Roon getting acquired by a company that already has a streaming service. 

Surely what Roon had wanted all along. Question is at what valuation... I am sure the Roon team dreams with being acquired by Apple or similar.

 

I don't think this is likely to happen. The reasons:

1- Has only 100k users

2- Is a complex piece of software, and most potential users have already tried it and stayed on or dropped it

3- Is tied to your local network - no streaming client in your mobile device, and the complexity of the database precludes any changes to this that does not involve putting your machine in the cloud somehow

4- Is too complex to be used effectively on a phone screen anyway

 

So frankly I don't see Roon being bought by another service.

 

Let me add that, in my humble opinion, what Roon does is interesting but not a secret sauce. If a streaming service like Apple or Spotify would want to largely replicate its functionality, it would likely not be such a huge development effort. In my estimation, any of these services have the following priorities at the top of their lists:

1- Follow all of the user's choices in the app (Spotify masterfully figured how to do it with Spotify Connect)

2- Allow for mobile service

 

Buying Roon would render a platform that obviously does none of these things, and changing it to incorporate these features is a MAJOR rewrite. So again, no dice in my opinion.

[miguelito]

36 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Here's one option - https://www.7digital.com/music-platform-as-a-service/

 

 

This is quite interesting.

 

If I were Roon, other than looking for a sugar daddy, I would create a slimmed down version of the app that can rely on a slimmed down version of the db and would do this bit with 7digital. You could offer the "cheap" service or buy into the "big" version.

[rn701]

34 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Much more likely to happen is Roon getting acquired by a company that already has a streaming service. 

 

According to roon, they have more employees than qobuz (judging from qobuz's lamentations), probably more revenue (hard to say because neither is public), and definitely 100x more software development expertise.

 

I can't figure out what streaming company would want or need roon?

 

At this point, with all the disruptions to their respective value propositions, roon needs qobuz and qobuz probably needs roon even more. 

 

A merger would make sense for both of them. I fear it would be a last ditch effort, though. 

 

(Unless JRiver and JimH buy both of them!)

[katools]

31 minutes ago, miguelito said:

happen. The reasons:

1- Has only 100k users

They're on record as having close to 250k subscribers.

[rn701]

4 minutes ago, katools said:

They're on record as having close to 250k subscribers.

 

Yes, on record on their chat forum from their exuberant COO. Color me skeptical. 

[katools]

5 minutes ago, rn701 said:

exuberant

Haughty would be rather more fitting.

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, miguelito said:

This is quite interesting.

 

If I were Roon, other than looking for a sugar daddy, I would create a slimmed down version of the app that can rely on a slimmed down version of the db and would do this bit with 7digital. You could offer the "cheap" service or buy into the "big" version.

Don't suggest this at the Roon forum.  I made a similar suggestion for "Roon Lite" and you would have thought I'd shot the mothers of the literal dozens of Roon customers who felt compelled to pile on and reiterate what a dumbfizzuck I was for presuming that I knew better than Roon itself what Roon customers want.

[rando]

1 hour ago, rn701 said:

I'm thinking roon could acquire qobuz at this point.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, rn701 said:

A merger would make sense for both of them.

 

[One and a half]

3 hours ago, katools said:

They're on record as having close to 250k subscribers.

Not quite, 249,999, I'm not renewing subscription at the end of the year.

 

- Box set & collection types are badly indexed

- No NEW banner tab any more

- Promise Daily Mix, then doesn't appear

- Gall when upgrading a message to say that your request to upgrade....

- No on the road access to the library 

- Crappy looking forum layout

- Online bullies

- Soft and mushy sound (agreed with other posters here)

- Unbelievable database size 28GB for 8500 albums some

- Square pictures in a round hole balls up

- Linked artists by initials and no round hole pictures

- Lousy search tool

- Upsampling to DSD sounds 'off'

- Conflict with RAAT protocol & other uPNP services on the same server

- Master of metadata expert in none

 

That's off the top of my head not having used it for a few days.

[AudioDoctor]

I really hope Roon doesn't acquire Qobuz... I like Qobuz...

[R1200CL]

On 7/13/2021 at 10:26 PM, miguelito said:

might be the case that neither Tidal, Qobuz, nor Roon will be around much longer.

That’s a horrible prediction.  I think you’re wrong. 

That said. Look at Darko’s video. 

 

[R1200CL]

9 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Roon could just offer it’s own native streaming service, rebranded from a white label service. 

And they could implement PGGB or what it’s called 😀

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

That’s a horrible prediction.  I think you’re wrong. 

That said. Look at Darko’s video. 

 

 

That finger snap transition sound is almost more irritating than he is...