Article: The Best Version Of... Donald Fagen’s The Nightfly

[Josh Mound]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

This is amazing @JoshM.

 

THE DEFINITIVE PIECE OF WRITING ON THE NIGHTFLY!

 

@astrotoy Do you have or know anyone who has the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab Betamax version of The Nightfly?

[ray-dude]

Incredible contribution.  Well done.

[Hiker]

Thank you for such a great read ,.

[Rt66indierock]

Thanks for the great memories. Version two was the last album I added to my reference albums. 

[astrotoy]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is amazing @JoshM.

 

THE DEFINITIVE PIECE OF WRITING ON THE NIGHTFLY!

 

@astrotoy Do you have or know anyone who has the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab Betamax version of The Nightfly?

No, I don't.  I do have a 15ips 2 track second generation dub of a production or safety master tape, not a digital version.     Larry

[The Computer Audiophile]

27 minutes ago, astrotoy said:

No, I don't.  I do have a 15ips 2 track second generation dub of a production or safety master tape, not a digital version.     Larry

Thanks for the info. If anyone had it, I thought it'd be you. 

[firedog]

Josh-

Amazing, just amazing. I can't even imagine how much time and effort goes in to such an article. But it shows in the results.

[ted_b]

@JoshM this is a magical and marvelous article, full of Donald Fagen love and respect.  This album is a special album for me (as well as Kamakiriad) and one of the greatest multichannel mixes I own (and I own a LOT).  I learned so much from this article that I will reread it regularly.  I own at least 3 of these versions (orig cd, DVDA, SACD) and may even grab the trilogy if I can.  Thank you sooo much.

[LarryMagoo]

Man I can't wait until I have time to read this!  I am huge Fagen and Steely Dan fan!  I got myself canned from a job in the early 80's and to keep money coming I decide to try selling Health insurance to low income folks ....unfortunately the location was over 2 hours from home...Anyway I used to play Nightly Fly damn near every night loud as hell blaring from the little GTI's sound system.....anyway long story short...Mr Fagen saved my life more than once....Love the guy...it's a real shame Walter's demise came way too early!  I am glad Two Against Nature got the wide ranging recognition it deserved!

[loop7]

Fantastic piece. These long-form articles on albums are gold.

 

So, I've only listened to The Nightfly about 150 times, most of those were the original US retail LP and then the original US retail CD. I no longer have the LP but I recall it sounding great.

 

In one of Michael Fremer's rants about the terrible-ness of compact discs, he remarked how Porcaro's drums on the album don't sound like drums (because digital recording was so flawed). I regret hearing Fremer say this because I tend to now agree the drums and cymbals don't sound all that great to my ears. I don't own a turntable so maybe I should steer clear of Fremer altogether.

 

I love this album and always will.

[Johnseye]

While I haven't completed reading the article, I suspect the focus is on digital, not vinyl releases.  MFSL released The Nightfly as MFSL 1-120 in 1983, then more recently using their One Step process in 2017.  I own both and recommend the One Step if you listen to vinyl.  You can always rip the record to digital.

 

[PeterG]

Wow--a treatise.  Steely Dan is my favorite band, seen them at least 10 or 12 times in the past 12 or so years (and they are still awesome!)  Your diligence and thoroughness match theirs.  A fitting tribute!  I need to go check the barcode on my Nightfly...

 

THANKS!!!

[scintilla]

Whatever misgivings I have had over the years with this site and Chris, both have continually surprised me with growth and evolution: Chris has become a pretty good columnist and trusted voice in the HiFi world.  The site has continued to improve in content quality and now, with this series I think has eclipsed print journals.  Nobody at Stereophile ever went in this deep, with such heart and so well.  Richard Lenhert never did this.  Michael Fremer never did this.  And here it is, for free on a website where a select group of audiophiles have found a place to commiserate and share the deep, neurotic impulses of music lovers that also want the definitive version of their favorite recordings without apology. Thank you Chris and Josh.  You have filled the cup and it runneth over...

[The Computer Audiophile]

24 minutes ago, scintilla said:

Whatever misgivings I have had over the years with this site and Chris, both have continually surprised me with growth and evolution: Chris has become a pretty good columnist and trusted voice in the HiFi world.  The site has continued to improve in content quality and now, with this series I think has eclipsed print journals.  Nobody at Stereophile ever went in this deep, with such heart and so well.  Richard Lenhert never did this.  Michael Fremer never did this.  And here it is, for free on a website where a select group of audiophiles have found a place to commiserate and share the deep, neurotic impulses of music lovers that also want the definitive version of their favorite recordings without apology. Thank you Chris and Josh.  You have filled the cup and it runneth over...

You just made my year :~)

 

I can’t thank both the community and writers like Josh enough. Without you guys, this site wouldn’t exist. 

[loudog]

wow. a masterwork of analysis.

[Danny Kaey]

#jawdrops #nuffsaid 🥶

[LarryMagoo]

What a great article!  Got an "edumacation" on the differences between Analog and Digital recording methods....surprising that they like the 3M digital version the best!    Exactly the reason I gave up my Turntable fetish over two decades ago... 

 

Thanks to Josh for the post!   I never had any idea how little Donald knew about actual writing music!

 

And to read some think that  Morph the Cat was a better recording...which I agree...makes sense though with the benefit of 25 years later and the technology that the time period brought with it!

[Josh Mound]

I just cleaned up a few missing italicizations of album titles. Please let me know if anyone notices any other errors.

[Josh Mound]

23 hours ago, loop7 said:

Fantastic piece. These long-form articles on albums are gold.

 

So, I've only listened to The Nightfly about 150 times, most of those were the original US retail LP and then the original US retail CD. I no longer have the LP but I recall it sounding great.

 

In one of Michael Fremer's rants about the terrible-ness of compact discs, he remarked how Porcaro's drums on the album don't sound like drums (because digital recording was so flawed). I regret hearing Fremer say this because I tend to now agree the drums and cymbals don't sound all that great to my ears. I don't own a turntable so maybe I should steer clear of Fremer altogether.

 

I love this album and always will.

 

It's odd that Fremer would blame CDs for the drum sound, since Wendel is really what shaped it. Listening to Wendel tracks on Gaucho, it's the same sound (arguably more digital, since I believe Nichols updated Wendel between Gaucho and The Nightfly).

 

In contrast to Fremer, I agree with the contemporary CD marketers and hifi magazine writers who pointed to The Nightfly as an endorsement of the potential of CDs. Lots of early CDs were sourced from improper tapes, as Nichols himself wrote about in an 1983 article. So even The Nightfly's erroneous first CD issue tended to sound better than some other early CDs made from tape copies EQ'd for vinyl. Plus it's sound floor was almost nonexistent thanks to the digital recording.

 

 

17 hours ago, scintilla said:

Whatever misgivings I have had over the years with this site and Chris, both have continually surprised me with growth and evolution: Chris has become a pretty good columnist and trusted voice in the HiFi world.  The site has continued to improve in content quality and now, with this series I think has eclipsed print journals.  Nobody at Stereophile ever went in this deep, with such heart and so well.  Richard Lenhert never did this.  Michael Fremer never did this.  And here it is, for free on a website where a select group of audiophiles have found a place to commiserate and share the deep, neurotic impulses of music lovers that also want the definitive version of their favorite recordings without apology. Thank you Chris and Josh.  You have filled the cup and it runneth over...

 

I can't tell you how much I appreciate this comment, @scintilla. Thank you for the kind words.

 

[Jean Paul D]

thank you. I quickly compared 5 versions of the title track, 2 of which are not included here.

 

To my ears on my system :

 

original CD (Target actually) sounds a bit hollow, old CD, everything I ever hated about CD

 

but the Limited pressing on Quiex II Promotional copy LP isn't great either with nothing of the thump you can get from a magical compression of bass/drums on vinyl. Could easily be judged as CD/digital version in a blind test I think.

 

SACD layer is pretty much OK and not sure I could blind test distinguish it from the 24/48/2. I think I'd pick the 24/48/2 for I perceived (but just gave each iteration one shot) more of reverb/echo, frank attacks when listening to it.

 

That's the reason why I come to reconsider, thanks to your work, my go to version which is 24/48/Mch mixdowned to stereo via HQP matrix. The bass and drums have much much more body and meat but then the subtleties of the mix, layerings, phasing effects, reverb, echoes, trails and THUS how digital pushed advantages in that album gets quite a bit lost. 

 

 

 

[Josh Mound]

Since this site has taken the brave stance of shining a spotlight on MQA, it's worth my mentioning that this article is very wrong about MQA and The Nightfly. The MQA version he listens to is just an MQA-encoded version of the 24/48 release, and both the Redbook streaming version and the 24/88.2 version (which I presume is just a rip of the SACD's hi-res layer) he compares it to are different masterings. So any differences are not attributable to MQA, and in my listening the plain old PCM version of the 24/48 master sounded better than the MQA version even when fully unfolded with my Matrix XSP DAC.

[Josh Mound]

3 minutes ago, Jean Paul D said:

thank you. I quickly compared 5 versions of the title track, 2 of which are not included here.

 

To my ears on my system :

 

original CD (Target actually) sounds a bit hollow, old CD, everything I ever hated about CD

 

but the Limited pressing on Quiex II Promotional copy LP isn't great either with nothing of the thump you can get from a magical compression of bass/drums on vinyl. Could easily be judged as CD/digital version in a blind test I think.

 

SACD layer is pretty much OK and not sure I could blind test distinguish it from the 24/48/2. I think I'd pick the 24/48/2 for I perceived (but just gave each iteration one shot) more of reverb/echo, frank attacks when listening to it.

 

That's the reason why I come to reconsider, thanks to your work, my go to version which is 24/48/Mch mixdowned to stereo via HQP matrix. The bass and drums have much much more body and meat but then the subtleties of the mix, layerings, phasing effects, reverb, echoes, trails and THUS how digital pushed advantages in that album gets quite a bit lost. 

 

 

 

 

I've never tried folding down the 5.1 mix to stereo. Does HQP do that on-the-fly when playing the 5.1 files, or do you do a conversion beforehand?

[Jean Paul D]

2 minutes ago, JoshM said:

 

I've never tried folding down the 5.1 mix to stereo. Does HQP do that on-the-fly when playing the 5.1 files, or do you do a conversion beforehand?

on-the-fly. By the attached recipe

[MikeyFresh]

@JoshMThis isn't just a great piece, but a masterpiece on this fantastic album that I first bought as a youth. It is and always will be an all-time favorite.

 

My first copy was the original vinyl, now long gone, then the CD which I should still have somewhere (and am now curious to check if it's the digital or analog tape sourced version), followed by both the DVD-Audio, and then the Trilogy DVD/CD box set.

 

I did not know there was a Japanese SACD reissue, I'll probably have to find that on eBay just to complete the set!