Best Audiophile USB Card ?

[Anwar]

13 hours ago, Topk said:

Speaking about listening comparisons, I did try the El Fidelity (EF) USB card that was mentioned above. It is actually surprisingly good and will sound better (yes significantly BETTER) than Jcat Femto and XE if your system is not fully sorted with top LPS like JS2, optimo/initio, SJ or PH....etc, ATX LPS etc. The EF sounds naturally very musical, fuller and warmer. But it can’t reach the level of Jcat past a certain point. 

 

So yes, the Jcat cards have huge potential and ultimately are in a different level than the EF (no doubt) BUT they need excellent power and generally speaking a very well sorted PC AND they need a higher end hifi system.

 

With a lower to mid end setup, I actually recommend the EF vs Jcat. A friend who had or tried Pink Faun, EF, Femto and XE says the same conclusion. He bought and left Femto on the shelf for more than a year and used EF until he maxed out his PC and only then the Femto was better (much better actually). 

 

The EF is only 39 EUR so the value for money is off the charts and you can’t go wrong... it’s probably too cheap psychologically for many people... just use a decent LPS (like a Allo Shanti or lower end Uptone) or even an Anker 20Kmh battery pack. With a top end LPS, the EF doesn’t sound so good paradoxically and you really need to move to Jcat or PF etc.

 

This finding is correlated by alpha audio website. You don’t have to believe me so just buy both Jcat and EF and let us know... you might be surprised.

 

for context I have a McIntosh based setup and an Asus/Apacer/AMD 3950x (16 cores) based PC streamer with 4 LPS

 

I have tried the El Fidelity USB card.  If the motherboard uses a single-rail LPSU into picoPSU then into the motherboard and the EF card uses separate 5V LPSU supply, the EF card gives different sound, like more airy sound.  However, if the motherboard uses a good multi-rail LPSU, I prefer the sound of direct USB output from the motherboard.

 

One problem I experienced with the EF card.  DSD will not pass thru, both native DSD and DoP.

 

[k27R]

4 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

One thing that I can't get manufacturers to do is to give an option to separately power the clock than the card. Something for you to consider.

 

The 4pin molex on the back of the Pink Faun cards takes from 12v and 5v lines, do you know if one of these lines goes to the clock only?

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, k27R said:

 

The 4pin molex on the back of the Pink Faun cards takes from 12v and 5v lines, do you know if one of these lines goes to the clock only?

 

It takes 5V only. 

[Dev]

On 3/31/2021 at 2:23 PM, wittao said:

We finished some weeks ago our first own developed USB card family’s first two pieces:

 

- USB P24

- USB P24 OCXO

 

I am planning to finalize on our webpage the USB card’s subpage.

 

Some parameters about the cards:

1. USB P24:

- 2pcs USB 3.0 port

- low profile bracket option

- normal bracket with external 24MHz clock input (miniXLR socket)

- 4pin molex inside PSU connection (5V@1A DC)

 

2. USB P24 OCXO:

- 2pcs USB 3.0 port

- low profile bracket option

- normal bracket with external 10MHz clock input (miniXLR socket)

- 4pin molex inside PSU connection (5V@1A DC)

- 24MHz VCTCXO in PLL with onboard 10MHz OCXO

Can order from 15th April.

 

If you need further information, please ask me.

Thanks,

Viktor

 

 

 

Hi Victor,

 

Fascinating development and the boards do look excellent. Very clean layout as well. I am currently using JCAT USB XE and would be interested in the USB P24 OCXO version. I agree with Nenon now that the Taiko USB card is out of DIY market, this would be a viable option given that you are using the same Renesas chipset.

 

However, I am curious why didn't you choose to add an external input power connector in the PCI bracket to power it from externally power supply instead of only having a 4-pin molex internal connector ? The JCAT card actually has both - an internal molex as well as an external 5.5/2.1mm DC input so that it could be powered in both ways (and off-coarse from the PCIe if none of them are connected).

 

 

[wittao]

5 hours ago, Dev said:

 

 

Hi Victor,

 

Fascinating development and the boards do look excellent. Very clean layout as well. I am currently using JCAT USB XE and would be interested in the USB P24 OCXO version. I agree with Nenon now that the Taiko USB card is out of DIY market, this would be a viable option given that you are using the same Renesas chipset.

 

However, I am curious why didn't you choose to add an external input power connector in the PCI bracket to power it from externally power supply instead of only having a 4-pin molex internal connector ? The JCAT card actually has both - an internal molex as well as an external 5.5/2.1mm DC input so that it could be powered in both ways (and off-coarse from the PCIe if none of them are connected).

 

 

Hi Dev,

thanks for your comment.

We are looking for a solution how to upgrade a card with external DC across the bracket (maybe our users can choose an option: external DC or external clock IN)

The onboard dc socket wasn’t an option, it makes a degradation in SQ. 
 

[wittao]

Some pics about the OCXO version:

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

On 4/1/2021 at 11:44 AM, Topk said:

Speaking about listening comparisons, I did try the El Fidelity (EF) USB card that was mentioned above. It is actually surprisingly good and will sound better (yes significantly BETTER) than Jcat Femto and XE if your system is not fully sorted with top LPS like JS2, optimo/initio, SJ or PH....etc, ATX LPS etc. The EF sounds naturally very musical, fuller and warmer. But it can’t reach the level of Jcat past a certain point. 

 

So yes, the Jcat cards have huge potential and ultimately are in a different level than the EF (no doubt) BUT they need excellent power and generally speaking a very well sorted PC AND they need a higher end hifi system.

 

With a lower to mid end setup, I actually recommend the EF vs Jcat. A friend who had or tried Pink Faun, EF, Femto and XE says the same conclusion. He bought and left Femto on the shelf for more than a year and used EF until he maxed out his PC and only then the Femto was better (much better actually). 

 

The EF is only 39 EUR so the value for money is off the charts and you can’t go wrong... it’s probably too cheap psychologically for many people... just use a decent LPS (like a Allo Shanti or lower end Uptone) or even an Anker 20Kmh battery pack. With a top end LPS, the EF doesn’t sound so good paradoxically and you really need to move to Jcat or PF etc.

 

This finding is correlated by alpha audio website. You don’t have to believe me so just buy both Jcat and EF and let us know... you might be surprised.

 

for context I have a McIntosh based setup and an Asus/Apacer/AMD 3950x (16 cores) based PC streamer with 4 LPS

 

That's why we came out with OPTIMO 3 DUO and INITIO 3 power supplies - to extract maximum performance form the cards. 

The difference is night and day

 

Best regards,
Marcin

[OAudio]

Hi,

 

This is the OAudio RealStream USB card which I hope people will find interesting.

 

It's designed and constructed without compromise for what I think might be the ultimate in USB sound reproduction. Sound quality is best simply described as "next level".   

 

A few details:

• Highly developed master USB RealStream clock subsystem incorporated onto the card.
• 12 LDOs for people that count, many more commonly found in applications like top end RF test equipment.
• Two user configurable USB ports

1. Both ports No1 and No2 can have USB chipset firmware changes applied to modify the USB chipset's transmission characteristics.   
2. In addition Port 1 has a bespoke system controlled via setting controllers at the rear of the card to allow Port 1's USB transmission signal integrity parameters to be modified to suit down stream system and musical taste.

• Various Power options including PCIE sourced or dedicated 12 volt to rear of card.

No plans currently to offer this commercially but without a doubt listening to it, I think it is a contender for the title of this thread 

 

Enjoy.

 

OAudio

 

 

 

 

[Exocer]

3 hours ago, OAudio said:

Hi,

 

This is the OAudio RealStream USB card which I hope people will find interesting.

 

It's designed and constructed without compromise for what I think might be the ultimate in USB sound reproduction. Sound quality is best simply described as "next level".   

 

A few details:

• Highly developed master USB RealStream clock subsystem incorporated onto the card.
• 12 LDOs for people that count, many more commonly found in applications like top end RF test equipment.
• Two user configurable USB ports

1. Both ports No1 and No2 can have USB chipset firmware changes applied to modify the USB chipset's transmission characteristics.   
2. In addition Port 1 has a bespoke system controlled via setting controllers at the rear of the card to allow Port 1's USB transmission signal integrity parameters to be modified to suit down stream system and musical taste.

• Various Power options including PCIE sourced or dedicated 12 volt to rear of card.

No plans currently to offer this commercially but without a doubt listening to it, I think it is a contender for the title of this thread 

 

Enjoy.

 

OAudio

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing @OAudio.  So this card is voiced for a server you will be offering as well, correct? 

 

Exciting times.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

[Dev]

@OAudiothe card looks very similar to the Taiko :-) it looks like you guys sharing the same reference design. The user configurable USB ports are an interesting addition. Why not offer it commercially ? 

[OAudio]

1 hour ago, Exocer said:

 

Thanks for sharing @OAudio.  So this card is voiced for a server you will be offering as well, correct? 

 

Exciting times.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

 

Indeed exciting times, thanks Rob, 

 

Yes that's correct it is intended to be part of my music server and was developed primarily for use in single and dual core c621 systems. There were a number of iterations pro of concept and prototypes to confirm the way the card should be designed. Voicing will obviously be spot on with c621 systems but in other servers its been remarkably consistent as well.  

[OAudio]

29 minutes ago, Dev said:

@OAudiothe card looks very similar to the Taiko :-) it looks like you guys sharing the same reference design. The user configurable USB ports are an interesting addition. Why not offer it commercially ? 

 

Hi Dev,

 

Haha you have some thing there. The Taiko, Core Audio (very nice looking design) and my card have all settled on the same USB host controller chipset and the "house" colour scheme for high end USB cards of black and gold :-). 

 

The card pictured was built in January this year after 5 months of very intensive development work, but pulls heavily on earlier ideas I had and projects going back a number of years. There was a lot I wanted to packed into the card so its actually had to be larger than the other designs I think and uses a full size PCIE blade. It has been in a 2u case but it was defiantly a tight squeeze. 

 

My aim is that the components I am producing will by used in the in the server I am working on. I am targeting a very high level of sound quality performance so having the flexibility to change individual components where I need to specifically to suit this application is important rather than producing components for general use.

 

     

[Marcin_gps]

And JCAT set on the same USB host controller 8 years ago 😎

[OAudio]

No argument there Marcin and full credit.

Like a good wine I think it has aged well and is still an excellent choice.

I was very close to going with the ASM3142 which I think you also use  

I just checked your card also has the high end black and gold "house" scheme to that's a full house 

[Dev]

45 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

And JCAT set on the same USB host controller 8 years ago 😎

not the same USB host controller. Taiko, Core Audio and OAudio is using Renasus whereas JCAT is using ASMedia, if I am not mistaken.

[Marcin_gps]

Just now, Dev said:

not the same USB host controller. Taiko, Core Audio and OAudio is using Renasus whereas JCAT is using ASMedia, if I am not mistaken.

JCAT USB Card and JCAT USB Card FEMTO use Renesas

 

JCAT USB XE use Asmedia

[Dev]

50 minutes ago, OAudio said:

 

Hi Dev,

 

Haha you have some thing there. The Taiko, Core Audio (very nice looking design) and my card have all settled on the same USB host controller chipset and the "house" colour scheme for high end USB cards of black and gold :-). 

 

The card pictured was built in January this year after 5 months of very intensive development work, but pulls heavily on earlier ideas I had and projects going back a number of years. There was a lot I wanted to packed into the card so its actually had to be larger than the other designs I think and uses a full size PCIE blade. It has been in a 2u case but it was defiantly a tight squeeze. 

 

My aim is that the components I am producing will by used in the in the server I am working on. I am targeting a very high level of sound quality performance so having the flexibility to change individual components where I need to specifically to suit this application is important rather than producing components for general use.

 

     

It’s very interesting that some of you guys have chosen the c621 based motherboard for a reason. Could you share more details or links on your server ? As you would probably know, there is a Taiko DIY project offerings, including chassis, dc-ATX, etc currently in flux. I don’t mind DIY but what I understand it’s not gonna be cheap and hence I am not sure if I want to delve my hands into it at this point. If a commercial offering is closer to a price point, it might just be an excellent offering. Any idea at what approx price range is your server and when available commercially ? 

[Dev]

11 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

JCAT USB Card and JCAT USB Card FEMTO use Renesas

 

JCAT USB XE use Asmedia

thanks for the clarification. Interesting that you went the reverse route than Taiko and others. Did the ASMedia sounded better than the Renesas is your testing or was there a different reason ?

[Marcin_gps]

15 minutes ago, Dev said:

thanks for the clarification. Interesting that you went the reverse route than Taiko and others. Did the ASMedia sounded better than the Renesas is your testing or was there a different reason ?

Yes. I chose it on purpose based on the trials. 

 

Asmedia consumes slightly more power compared to NEC (renesas), but Asmedia has much better performance.

 

Also the NEC chip is old and I am not sure how long it will be availble. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

[Tatomek7]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:42 PM, Dev said:

Did the ASMedia sounded better than the Renesas is your testing or was there a different reason ?

 

I did recently some tests of Jcat cards on my X99 mb with 10 core Xeon with Euphony/Roon OS.

 

Jcat USB Femto charged with Keces P8 USB 5V got new life powered by Jcat Optimo Duo. Changing LPS for Optimo was eye opener. SQ uptick was really significant and I was, in fact shocked, how big difference comes from this LPS. Everything improved, but what was important, everything was just right, balance, pace, colour. Just pleasure to listen to. Before I had some remarks to my server sound according tonal balance and the sound correctness. With new LPS everything clicked and came on the right place. I didn’t imagine the LPS can have so big difference, particularly I compared Keces P3 with P8 before and the difference between them was not as big, as with Optimo.

 

Then, I changed the card for Jcat USB XE, also with Optimo Duo LPS. The difference is not as big, as changing LPS for Jcat USB Femto, but still is. So, after a while I returned to Jcat USB Femto and yes, the change in this direction is more painful. The sound extension is limited, bass doesn’t go so deep and is less differentiated, the upper frequencies doesn’t shine as with XE card. I perceive most difficult to accept ( for me ) the bass. When you experience something better, it's difficult to agree after for step back. 

 

I compared Dual CPU C621 MB USB output with Jcat USB Femto some time ago and there is change, but I will not call it improvement, more side effect, some could like it, I don't. I liked very much USB Femto with single CPU, but with C621 it doesn't work for me.

 

Following some opinion on this forum I wanted also to check, if XE card will improve sound of the server based on Dual C621 CPU, but still testing. Initial impression is positive, but too early to judge, as I powered it today.

[Topk]

Pink Faun Bridge - stock clock vs. OCXO

 

I would like to report on the impact of the OCXO on the sound quality for the Pink Faun card. For context, a detailed description of my streamer and hifi system is in my profile (go to activity then audio system). I use the SPDIF version of the card but I expect the impact of the clock to be similar for the USB card.

First, I love the sound and musicality of the pink faun card. I tried the EF, Jcat Femto and Jcat XE with 5-10 different power sources (between myself and a friend). I settled on the Pink Faun with Uptone JS2 or Jcat optimo duo, so the report is based on the pink faun card powered by those. The 5V LPS has a huge and critical impact to the sound quality (i fully  agree with the prior post from Tatomek7) and the power supplies are really the heart of the audio PC. This cannot be underlined enough. All those cards need the very best LPS you can afford to develop their full potential (happy to give recommendations depending on your budget).

 

1) Stock clock

 

With the stock clock, the Pink Faun is immediately enjoyable. It has a very musical sound, the tone is very good, the instruments sound natural and realistic, there’s a little bit of natural warmth and even “romanticism” and humanity, with good dynamics and a lively sound that’s never cold or analytical. With the pink faun, you naturally focus on the music. I find that I’m not really dissecting the sound and just listen to the music instead. A very good sign in my book.

 

2) OCXO

The presentation changes and the impact of the clock is slightly different on the JS2 vs Optimo (which is a higher grade LPS than JS2 but more on that later). Overall, the OCXO brings focus. It’s a little bit like a lens that you would put in focus. Maybe the stock clock is an older lens and the OCXO a modern and sharper lens, if you take a photography analogy.

 

The instruments are more precise, more defined. You can hear much more the nuances of what the musicians are playing, the grain of the instruments, and the sound is a bit more dynamic. There’s more detail, but not in an analytical or cold way. There’s just more definition and control. Everything is tighter, and there’s a greater level of precision everywhere.
 

The more the hifi system is of a higher level, with the Jcat optimo for instance, the more the benefits of a clock where it brings more realism. The soundstage is also improved, particularly the depth. The sound is less homogeneous as well however depending on what you want in your system, you might want to rebalance the system once you insert the clock since it does bring more focus and precision. This is really system and taste dependent. For example, with the Optimo, I noticed that the clock is pretty much all upside with excellent and positive impact on the realism of the voices and instruments.

 

Overall, it’s recommended and an excellent step up. It does make you want to try and buy the ultra OCXO since this clock goes to the next level!

 

There’s a review of the pink faun cards and server on the hifi advice website too, for another report.
 

Let me know if any question, and hope this helps.

[mrkoven]

any details on taiko usb price/release date?

[Topk]

4 hours ago, mrkoven said:

any details on taiko usb price/release date?

Sold only to Taiko owners 

[prinz]

I am replacing OCXO with Ultra OCXO on my usb card.

OCXO is for sale, drop me PM if interested.

Ultra already installed and working. Didn't listened yet, but will make some brief listening within an hour or so.

 

 

[Topk]

34 minutes ago, prinz said:

I am replacing OCXO with Ultra OCXO on my usb card.

OCXO is for sale, drop me PM if interested.

Ultra already installed and working. Didn't listened yet, but will make some brief listening within an hour or so.

 

 

Exciting!!! I envy you. Please give us a report after its burn in!