Best Audiophile USB Card ?

[matthias]

6 minutes ago, John Hughes said:

I'm building a hackintosh for music.  Are there any USB cards that work with MacOS?

 

The new JCAT USB XE and this one from Sonnet for example:

 

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro-usbc-pcie.html

 

Both use the ASM3142 chip which seems to be the best sounding one.

 

Matt

[John Hughes]

59 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Both use the ASM3142 chip which seems to be the best sounding one.

 

I have done some digging about this chipset and found some of your other posts. I need USB A on the card for my DAC (the Sonnet version seems overkill and expensive). Has anybody compared the Sonnet to the Startech?  Startech now has a good combo USB C and USB A card that uses the new ASM chipset.  

 

https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/~PEXUSB311AC3

 

Also I see on other posts that using USB C to ethernet on a Startech improves sound too.  So maybe this combo is a good one?

[matthias]

6 hours ago, John Hughes said:

 

I have done some digging about this chipset and found some of your other posts. I need USB A on the card for my DAC (the Sonnet version seems overkill and expensive). Has anybody compared the Sonnet to the Startech?  Startech now has a good combo USB C and USB A card that uses the new ASM chipset.  

 

https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/~PEXUSB311AC3

 

Also I see on other posts that using USB C to ethernet on a Startech improves sound too.  So maybe this combo is a good one?

 

Yes, go for the Startech and please share your impressions 🙂

 

Matt

[Exocer]

On 6/29/2020 at 12:27 AM, matthias said:

 

Yes, go for the Startech and please share your impressions 🙂

 

Matt

 

I purchased the newer edition with 1 USB A and 1 USB C output. I recommend it as a stopgap until you get the itch to go with a true Audiophile card:

 

https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-3.0/Cards/~PEXUSB311AC3

 

This was a noticable improvement over the Asus Strix Z390-I USB 2.0 ports. 

 

Very interested in the Pink Faun USB bridge and JCAT Femto USB XE. I am wondering if the latter will be worthwhile on my Linux system though. Some say the Jcat cards work more optimally with Windows.

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, Exocer said:

Very interested in the Pink Faun USB bridge and JCAT Femto USB XE. I am wondering if the latter will be worthwhile on my Linux system though. Some say the Jcat cards work more optimally with Windows.

 

Go for it. They both sound very good on Linux. 

Many Jcat users use Jplay on Windows, and that's probably where that came from. In my experience the benefit of upgrading to a JCAT or PinkFaun card on Linux (Euphony and AL before that in my case) is equally good as it is on Windows (which is what I am using now on my dual Xeon server). 

[al2813]

Am starting to look at a card for my new NUC server. I have been debating between the Pink Faun base card (325 euro) and the Jcat FEMTO. I don't consider the rest of my components have the necessary quality to justify going to a the higher end cards. If someone was able to try both of them I am interested to hear. 

 

I then have a question around the Matrix Element H card which has an interesting feature: 

 

"To summarize, three powering strategies are possible:
 

• Ext: the interface is powered by an external power supply (cleaner sound if used with a quality power supply, but needs more space)
• Int: the interface is fed by the computer power supply. In this configuration, the interface is capable of filtering most of the supply noise, however the result will be less accurate than a clean external power supply
• Off: Interface is not powered (USB does not issue 5V output). This configuration is ideal if your interface directly is connected to a DAC equiped with its own (quality) power supply."

Does the last option mean I do not have to power the PCIE card at all (My DAC has it's own power supply)? 

 

 

[Dean Shias]

I believe it means that if the DACs usb port has enough power (from the DACs own power) to power the usb card. Best option is to get a linear power supply for the card. It made a nice enough difference.

[Exocer]

@Dean Shias , are you still using the Matrix Element H? Did you give the card external power?

[CaoWei]

On 12/30/2020 at 1:16 AM, al2813 said:

Am starting to look at a card for my new NUC server. I have been debating between the Pink Faun base card (325 euro) and the Jcat FEMTO. I don't consider the rest of my components have the necessary quality to justify going to a the higher end cards. If someone was able to try both of them I am interested to hear. 

 

I then have a question around the Matrix Element H card which has an interesting feature: 

 

"To summarize, three powering strategies are possible:
 

• Ext: the interface is powered by an external power supply (cleaner sound if used with a quality power supply, but needs more space)
• Int: the interface is fed by the computer power supply. In this configuration, the interface is capable of filtering most of the supply noise, however the result will be less accurate than a clean external power supply
• Off: Interface is not powered (USB does not issue 5V output). This configuration is ideal if your interface directly is connected to a DAC equiped with its own (quality) power supply."

Does the last option mean I do not have to power the PCIE card at all (My DAC has it's own power supply)? 

 

 

Correct, some DACs do not need the power from the USB port, the built-in USB interface is powered by its own power supply. If the built-in power supply in the DAC is good enough, it's a good solution that the USB port only provide audio data, no power supply.

[Gladac]

Hello,

What is the real SQ benefit of having very good clock in the USB card, when the signal will be reclocked in the USB-SPDIF converter anyway (I have Singxer SU-1)?

 

Apologize if this topic is already covered, I could not find the explanation.

[matthias]

The very best USB card seems to be the Taiko Audio USB, BUT it is only available for Taiko Extreme owners.

 

From the feedback on WBF this card seems to be a game changer.

 

Matt

[ray-dude]

I've had my Taiko USB card since Monday.  Quite the transformational impact.  Card is still settling in, but a definite winner (to say the least)

 

I have not tried other cards with the Extreme, but I've seen a lot of feedback from others of other cards not being as good as the built in USB.  My experience was that the tX-Ultra actually degraded SQ with the Extreme (compared with going direct to the built in USB).

 

With the new Taiko USB card, the SQ lift is definitely in the game changer category.  Looking forward to doing proper deep dive after it has settled out.

 

[shahed99]

If Taiko ever decides to sell their USB card to DIY crowd, I bet they can make huge $$$$. I really hope they do. For the first time I’m tempted to buy the Extreme.

[wittao]

We finished some weeks ago our first own developed USB card family’s first two pieces:

 

- USB P24

- USB P24 OCXO

 

I am planning to finalize on our webpage the USB card’s subpage.

 

Some parameters about the cards:

1. USB P24:

- 2pcs USB 3.0 port

- low profile bracket option

- normal bracket with external 24MHz clock input (miniXLR socket)

- 4pin molex inside PSU connection (5V@1A DC)

 

2. USB P24 OCXO:

- 2pcs USB 3.0 port

- low profile bracket option

- normal bracket with external 10MHz clock input (miniXLR socket)

- 4pin molex inside PSU connection (5V@1A DC)

- 24MHz VCTCXO in PLL with onboard 10MHz OCXO

Can order from 15th April.

 

If you need further information, please ask me.

Thanks,

Viktor

 

[ray-dude]

12 minutes ago, shahed99 said:

If Taiko ever decides to sell their USB card to DIY crowd, I bet they can make huge $$$$. I really hope they do. For the first time I’m tempted to buy the Extreme.

 

The fact that Taiko is opening up power supplies and chassis to the DIY community but retaining the USB card as exclusive for Extreme owners is a tell for how significant the impact of this card is.  The bar has definitely been raised to a completely new level.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

57 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

 

The fact that Taiko is opening up power supplies and chassis to the DIY community but retaining the USB card as exclusive for Extreme owners is a tell for how significant the impact of this card is.  The bar has definitely been raised to a completely new level.

 

Do they provide technical information somewhere to explain what makes this USB card so special? 

 

Thanks.

[Savolax]

58 minutes ago, wittao said:

We finished some weeks ago our first own developed USB card family’s first two pieces:

 

- USB P24

- USB P24 OCXO

 

I am planning to finalize on our webpage the USB card’s subpage.

 

Some parameters about the cards:

1. USB P24:

- 2pcs USB 3.0 port

- low profile bracket option

- normal bracket with external 24MHz clock input (miniXLR socket)

- 4pin molex inside PSU connection (5V@1A DC)

 

2. USB P24 OCXO:

- 2pcs USB 3.0 port

- low profile bracket option

- normal bracket with external 10MHz clock input (miniXLR socket)

- 4pin molex inside PSU connection (5V@1A DC)

- 24MHz VCTCXO in PLL with onboard 10MHz OCXO

Can order from 15th April.

 

If you need further information, please ask me.

Thanks,

Viktor

 

 

 

 

 

 

The prices (or approximates at this point) would be interesting to know and maybe a general designing and end product goals regarding the known top cards JCAT USB XE and Pink Faun USB Bridge Ultra OCXO.

With this miniXLR clock connection the cards seem to have designed use just with your devices transmitting clock on such plug though?

[Savolax]

20 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Do they provide technical infornation anywhere on what makes this USB card so special? 

 

Thanks.

I am not the guy to answer on that and this is post is not to take anything from Taiko server or the card, but just thinking out loud as great as the stock extreme server is, it's usb out is "just" PC motherboard usb out. So I think it's no wonder to yield even better results applying dedicated USB card supplying the power directly. 

Actually I don't know if anyone has tested, would be interested to know if someone tried externally powered USB XE or Pink Faun USB Bridge on the Taiko Server and found Taikos motherboard USB output better?

(edit: if that is even possible to do on the server...?)

[matthias]

15 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Do they provide technical information somewhere to explain what makes this USB card so special? 

 

Thanks.

 

Not much. Some info from Emile:

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-329#post-709331

 

Matt

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

13 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Not much. Some info from Emile:

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-329#post-709331

 

Matt

 

 

 

Thanks. Could not agree more with this: "Every single component has a noise signature, often subject to external influences, and even if this is exceedingly low, it can have a surprising impact on perceived playback sound quality." 

[exeric2]

Reading that comment by Emile in "what's best forum" was interesting. I've tutored myself on oscillators just by reading this thread.

 

The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator - diyAudio

 

Andrea, the author of the thread, is quite an expert in low noise oscillators. His design philosophy appears to be coincident with Emile's on how to build a low noise oscillator. He doesn't use oven controlled oscillators. It's a very long thread and will take anybody quite a commitment  of time to read. It's worth it though. There's some redundancy and off topic stuff you have to slog through unfortunately. The problem is that you never know when there's a nugget revealed that is essential to your further understanding. So I would say if you're are committed to a very low noise, non-oven heated oscillator and are willing to DIY then it's good reference information and still worth the long slog. But only if you are willing to DIY. It's very possible, though not assured, that if you port an off board oscillator from one of his kits into an otherwise well engineered USB board you will have a winner. From everything I've read Andrea Mori's kit oscillators are world class. They also are not oven controlled. The cost is dirt cheap in terms of money. The real cost is in time to get yourself up to speed. Don't address any questions to me though. I'm still in the self teaching mode and as they say "do not yet know what I do not know".

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 hour ago, exeric2 said:

Reading that comment by Emile in "what's best forum" was interesting. I've tutored myself on oscillators just by reading this thread.

 

The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator - diyAudio

 

Andrea, the author of the thread, is quite an expert in low noise oscillators.

 

We need all these experts to talk to each other more ! They don't all agree... Put them all in one room and lock the door until they figure all this out :)

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 hour ago, exeric2 said:

It's very possible, though not assured, that if you port an off board oscillator from one of his kits into an otherwise well engineered USB board you will have a winner.

 

The question remains of what is a "well engineered USB board" ? If it were so simple to answer you would not see Taiko investing so much in the development of their board, and keeping it "secret", and you would not have audiophiles tweaking endlessly their sources to prevent noise from polluting the DAC (since there is no perfect galvanic isolation on the DAC side for a USB input). The noise has multiple sources (not just the clock) and all components matter, including on these small boards.

[exeric2]

I was just using the quoted comments by Emile. No one is arguing with you. Emile's comments on the improvements he's seen with his own USB board had an implicit meaning. He seemed to be saying that the difference between "excellent" and "superb" sound on an otherwise well engineered usb board had to do with bringing up the quality of the oscillator more than anything else. Are you disagreeing that this was NOT Emile's  implicit message? 

 

 

[cab33]

42 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

The question remains of what is a "well engineered USB board" ? If it were so simple to answer you would not see Taiko investing so much in the development of their board, and keeping it "secret", and you would not have audiophiles tweaking endlessly their sources to prevent noise from polluting the DAC (since there is no perfect galvanic isolation on the DAC side for a USB input). The noise has multiple sources (not just the clock) and all components matter, including on these small boards.

 

The cables are what really count.