Time To Dump Tidal? Bluesound / BlueOS Now Has Deezer HiFi

[Dr Tone]

I know mp3 adds some technical difficulties when implementing gapless but that isn't as much of an issue with FLAC as far as I know.  I know Plex does gapless with flac and aac but not mp3.

 

So I assume it was technically tough to solve with their mp3 streaming so now it doesn't exist in the lossless tier either.

[Sonicularity]

Deezer's Flow has brought me back on board.  Apparently I am able to play my entire library with Flow, including every favorite artist, album, and track as well as introducing additional similarly related tracks that might not yet be included as one of my favorites.  This is a neat feature that works well with my lazy style of listening to music.  It is supposed to be fun, so I don't want to make it a chore.  

 

I've added a few albums and artists that I enjoy and started Flow.  As new songs are played that I enjoy, but are not currently in my library, I've been adding the artist and album.  This way I've been building my library and improving Flow at the same time.

 

I mentioned the issue with the gapless playback as my initial attempts at researching found posts in the Deezer support forum as late as Sept. 2017 claiming their current solution is to use cross-fading between each track, and they made it sound like there was little interest in making any update.   The fact that their FLAC files are gapless on other platforms is reassuring to me that it is something they understand to be important to customers that would purchase a premium service plan.  

[Miska]

Does the Deezer Android/iOS app send lossless FLAC to Chromecast Audio?

 

If it does, then I can easily listen it through HQPlayer without extra computer...

 

P.S. Yeah, BlueSound NODE2 works as a source too, but Chromecast Audio is so much cheaper...

[Sonicularity]

17 minutes ago, Miska said:

Does the Deezer Android/iOS app send lossless FLAC to Chromecast Audio?

 

If it does, then I can easily listen it through HQPlayer without extra computer...

 

P.S. Yeah, BlueSound NODE2 works as a source too, but Chromecast Audio is so much cheaper...

 

At this time, I don't believe so.  

 

https://support.deezer.com/hc/en-gb/articles/115004589249-Deezer-HiFi-FAQ

 

The desktop app is the only platform that allows for HiFi (FLAC 1411 kb/s) streaming at the lower US $9.99 Premium price.  That may change after the beta ends.

[psjug]

40 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

P.S. Yeah, BlueSound NODE2 works as a source too, but Chromecast Audio is so much cheaper...

The old Node works too.  As does sonos connect.  I agree these are expensive - especially if, like me, you are not using them for multiroom.  But still they are really great for listening through streaming services in a living room.  You'll never regret getting one of these things.

[realhifi]

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Gapless isn't something mainstream companies think about. We'll need to contact Deezer and follow up to make sure this gets in there. 

Huh?  Gapless playback isn’t “mainstream”?  You mean as in CDs, records, tapes, etc.?

[mansr]

5 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

I know mp3 adds some technical difficulties when implementing gapless but that isn't as much of an issue with FLAC as far as I know.  I know Plex does gapless with flac and aac but not mp3.

 

So I assume it was technically tough to solve with their mp3 streaming so now it doesn't exist in the lossless tier either.

The trouble with mp3 is that audio is encoded in blocks of 1152 samples. If the file isn't a multiple of this block size, it has to be padded (with silence), and there is now way of knowing how much padding was used. Thus, if each track of an album is encoded separately, gapless playback is impossible. An album could be encoded as a single sequence, but then playing the tracks individually or in a playlist wouldn't come out properly. Later codecs, such as AAC and Vorbis, while also block based, encode the actual number of samples in the final block, making proper gapless playback possible. Lossless codecs by definition do not have this problem.

[crenca]

9 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

I've never had a problem with my Tidal connection through a browser.  When I use it on a PC with their dedicated app, which is necessary for MQA, it constantly hangs.  So I don't use the app.  Streaming through Roon is never an issue.

 

For me, I get more hangs/non service through Roon.  I can switch over (or simply play through another device concurrently) and the app/browser is good to go...

[JohnSwenson]

8 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Many don't remember, but gapless didn't come to iPods until iTunes 7 / iPod Gen 5.

 

I don't understand the technical reasons why it's so hard.  I know Fiio DAPs achieve what I call "almost gapless" (there is still a perceptible, but low millisecond pause between tracks).

 

Perhaps there are some patents in the mix which requires "creative" (i.e., expensive) developers to achieve true gapless.  For me, gapless playback is the demarcation between the real players and the poseurs.

 

 

The problem is that with gapless you have to start downloading the next track into a buffer while the previous track is still playing from a previous buffer.  The problem is primarily managing track information, sample rate, bit depth,  flack/MP3, PCM/DSD etc. You are playing a track with one set of information while you are downloading something that may be very different.

 

The architecture of the player has to be designed from the ground up to handle this. It is very difficult to "tack this on'" to an existing player that was designed with a global set of parameters for the current track. You may wind up with two different file type decoders running at the same time etc., this can get complicated and needs to be carefully thought out so it all works right.

 

Then of course there are GUI aspects, towards the end of a track the track data (name, album, artist etc.) that is playing is different than what is coming off the wire, again the player has to be designed to deal with these issues.

 

None of this stuff is incredibly difficult to do IF you start with these requirements, it's very difficult to do if you decide to change the specs just as it is getting ready to go to market.

 

John S.

[Johnseye]

I can't imagine not doing it in the first place.  It's fundamental to so much music and most players support it.

[crenca]

3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

I can't imagine not doing it in the first place.  It's fundamental to so much music and most players support it.

 

I think it is a product of a large, consumer electronics industry that puts together products by checklists, committees, and at the absolute lowest cost etc. They are often really really (really really really) out of touch with the end users.  I find most music players (hardware and software) have such glaring defects it is painfully obvious that almost no one in the creation process actually uses those products for what they are intended.  That's what makes Roon and such things such a pleasant surprise.

[Johnseye]

8 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

I think it is a product of a large, consumer electronics industry that puts together products by checklists, committees, and at the absolute lowest cost etc. They are often really really (really really really) out of touch with the end users.  I find most music players (hardware and software) have such glaring defects it is painfully obvious that almost no one in the creation process actually uses those products for what they are intended.  That's what makes Roon and such things such a pleasant surprise.

 

Roon is by far the most user friendly because of its simplicity and capabilities. It does have some shortcomings. They are tight with Apple but limited with Android. Already in this thread I hear people begging for Chromecast support. I'm sure they have a list of to do's and they seem to be engaged with their community. In the end they can only do so much with their available resources. 

[crenca]

6 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Roon is by far the most user friendly because of its simplicity and capabilities. It does have some shortcomings. They are tight with Apple but limited with Android. Already in this thread I hear people begging for Chromecast support. I'm sure they have a list of to do's and they seem to be engaged with their community. In the end they can only do so much with their available resources. 

 

Oh I agree that Roon has shortcomings.  For example I dissented in their recent elimination of the "paw masher".  However, those shortcomings are not the result of gross indifference and lack of connection to end users.  Lack of gapless in Deezer or any other product is due to a gross lack of understanding of the sector they are trying to serve.  The only other possible explanation that I see is what Samuel referred to - patents and IP limitations.

[Cebolla]

11 hours ago, Miska said:

Does the Deezer Android/iOS app send lossless FLAC to Chromecast Audio?

 

If it does, then I can easily listen it through HQPlayer without extra computer...

 

P.S. Yeah, BlueSound NODE2 works as a source too, but Chromecast Audio is so much cheaper...

 

Assuming you have a Deezer HiFi account, how about using the Logitech Media Server on an appropriate Linux box to provide access to the Deezer HiFi lossless FLAC streams (requires the ickStream LMS plugin)?

 

You'll also need to use the UPnPBridge LMS plugin to proxy the Deezer FLAC streams for hqplayerd's Rigel UPnP renderer. UPnPBridge allows UPnP renderers to be used as a Squeezebox type streamer (specifically, Squeezlite), so control will need to be via a Squeezbox controller, such as the web browser app that comes bundled with LMS.

 

[psjug]

Has anyone looked at whether the Deezer Mac Desktop app is gapless?

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/16/deezer-app-mac-lossless-audio/

[synn]

I have been thinking about trying a higher res streaming service than Spotify and is currently mulling over Qobuz and Deezer. My Yamaha WXC50 network streamer supports both with its MusicCast app. So far Qobuz seems to be winning as it is a platform from which I can stream and buy tracks.

 

incidentally, i have seen that Cambridge Audio, which only natively supports Spotify Connect in its streamers recommends adding a Chromecast Audio via optical in to use Deezer and Qobuz. So as I understand, both apps are chromecast enabled.

[JJK]

I did dump tidal in favor of Deezer Hifi when it became available on bluesound.

there is one issue I hope gets fixed - bluesound can’t sort deezer favorites alphabetically. Other than that it works and sounds the same to me. 

I had been looking to dump tidal for a long time.

I ended up saving money with the discount (120.00 for a year of hifi) - I had to ask for the discount after signing up but they were quick to provide it.

With the discount and Deezer “flow” I can live with the sorting issue for now. Bluesound is pretty good at bug fixes and feature fixes.

The Flow feature works really well so far. Much better discovery than tidal.

JJK

[shadowlight]

@jjk, which discount are you talking about?

[JJK]

52 minutes ago, shadowlight said:

@jjk, which discount are you talking about?

This one - I was not a sonos owner but they gave it to me anyway when I asked for it.

refunded and re-enrolled at the lower rate. I did the full year to get closer to tidal with its available military discount.

that is another thing to keep in mind - tidal is pretty good deal @12 bucks with that discount - available to veterans and active alike.

 

http://www.dzr.fm/sonos

 

my ideal streaming service for home would be lossless Apple Music with a hook into the bluesound system - maybe someday  

 

[Rexp]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:07 PM, synn said:

I have been thinking about trying a higher res streaming service than Spotify and is currently mulling over Qobuz and Deezer. My Yamaha WXC50 network streamer supports both with its MusicCast app. So far Qobuz seems to be winning as it is a platform from which I can stream and buy tracks.

 

incidentally, i have seen that Cambridge Audio, which only natively supports Spotify Connect in its streamers recommends adding a Chromecast Audio via optical in to use Deezer and Qobuz. So as I understand, both apps are chromecast enabled.

The WXC50 looks interesting, is it gapless?

[synn]

6 hours ago, Rexp said:

The WXC50 looks interesting, is it gapless?

 

On Flac files streamed over the network, yes.

 

the only thing I mind on it is some sort of display in the front that shows what it is playing. Need to dig out the phone and look into the app for that.

[Melvin]

I just had a chat with Deezer support:

 

Quote

 

(01:22:54 PM) Me: I'm a Bluesound user, am interested in your HiFi service, and noticed the nice 25% discount you offer for Sonos users .. can I get the same discount? (01:25:34 PM) *** Florian joined the chat *** (01:25:51 PM) Florian: Hi there (01:27:31 PM) Florian: Sure, you can have the offer despite having another brand of speakers, but please note that you can only use our lossless quality on Sonos or Bang&Olufsen or through our desktop app (01:29:18 PM) Me: OK .. thank you. I was interested in using it through my Bluesound Node 2 so I will pass for now. I will revisit this when lossless quality is available on Bluesound. (01:29:44 PM) Florian: Sure, we are happy to welcome you in the future (01:29:49 PM) Florian: Have a nice day!

 

 

Interesting, no? I await an answer from Bluesound.

[Melvin]

Just heard back from Bluesound:

 

Quote

Hi Melvin

Thanks for the feedback. I have forwarded your concerns to our Communications Team.

Our Engineering Team has been working directly with Deezer's Engineering to implement this as quickly as possible once Deezer made the announcement. You will receive loseless streaming in BluOS using a Deezer HiFi account.

We apologise for any confusion

 

Apparently Deezer support isn't up to speed yet.

[Solid-State]

why is gapless so important,,,,,

[Samuel T Cogley]

23 minutes ago, TubeMan said:

why is gapless so important,,,,,

 

In my experience, it's all about listening to albums vs. listening to singles.  Lack of gapless support can destroy the immersive experience with some albums.