Time To Dump Tidal? Bluesound / BlueOS Now Has Deezer HiFi

[synn]

No one beats Spotify when it comes to selection, curated content or discovery.

 

which is why it is so frustrating to see them drag their heels about offering a hifi tier.

 

their forums are full of people who have a Spotify and tidal account and are complaining non stop about how bad the tidal user experience is, but how they have no option but to continue subscribing to both services.

[bobbmd]

@schiit: could you elaborate on your comment 'how terrible TIDAL's connectivity is...'?

I have had TIDAL since its inception and prior to that(whatever it was before JAY-Z/Beyonce etal bought it) and have never had a 'connectivity' problem, I have had Time Warner now Spectrum with at least 100Mbps and use both ME2 or AQ DFR NEVER any hangups or fail 'to connect' especially with MQA/MASTERS. Nor have I ever had a 'connectivity' problem with Qobuz ROON or A+3 with the above DAC's or Schiit Gungnir or original Modi. Just curiosity on my part no criticism or skepticism.

bobbmd

[psjug]

1 hour ago, bobbmd said:

Does everyone dislike TIDAl b/o MQA and/or collective owners/investors or both?? Seems there is little more than meets the eye here.l just like the music and the ability /ease of making playlists and have them immediately transfer toA+3 and I️ like MQA. Why dump tidal for something else doesn’t really seem any better and Qobuz is infinitely better than either of them

These are not the reasons at all, speaking for just me.  Deezer apps and functionality are way better IMO.  Deezer is going for MQA also so it's not that.  I actually like to use a service with artist ownership like Tidal has, but I just don't like the Tidal service.

 

You might do a trial of Deezer and decide for yourself.  

[bobbmd]

@The Computer Audiophile:my point exactly Chris,I have about 168(on TIDAL same on Qobuz)playlists with hundreds of songs each from all genres except the ones Jay-Z etal espouses so I just ignore them the playlists are easy to make if something doesn't show up in TIDAL I go to Qobuz find it retype it in TIDAL and it usually comes up if not I make a playlist in Qobuz and transfer it via Sounddiz to TIDAL or it shows up in A+3. I can't imagine the SQ of Deezer HiFi is any better and Deezer does not work with A+3 or ROON both of which make TIDAL sound 'better'. I really enjoy the ease of TIDAL and altho I don't care for Jay-Z's musical choices I just ignore them 

[bobbmd]

@psjug I downloaded the beta desktop app for my mac mini and signed up for FLAC HiFi High Quality or whatever they call their best quality sound. Their webpage leaves a lot to be desired compared to( what i consider beautiful layouts) TIDAL ie album covers breakdown of genres etc same goes for what Qobuz offers in their desktop app(have you ever visited Qobuz?- it is absolutely breathtaking and choices just blow me away) and not to mention the layout of A+3 and of course ROON. There is no way to import my hundreds of playlists on TIDAL and Qobuz let alone my iTunes library of 800-1000 CDs/30000 songs-I would have to start all over! There appears no way to contact them with questions and their FAQ page was awful.

A+3 when I bought it years ago imported everything I had on TIDAL and Qobuz including ALL playlists and my iTunes library. Same for ROON in regard to my library and TIDAL.

The final straw when I tried to play something from Deezer there was no place not even in 'preferences' to choose what I wanted to play through ie- my Schiit Gungnir or ME2 DACs- how does the music get to my avr headphones and speaker system? I don't have SONOS Bluesound or BluOS just a Mac Mini and Spectrum high broadband service and  an Apple time capsule extreme WiFi. TIDAL Qobuz ROON and A+3 have exquisite layouts for choosing what DACs/Zones and what one is listening to ie HiFi or MQA/Masters.

The inference the SQ is 'better' than TIDAL/ROON/A+3/Qobuz but I couldn't hear anything from Deezer so I can't find out but there is no way it could improve with what I already have.

Thanks for the suggestion but it was a dud and I cancelled even the trial.

[psjug]

15 minutes ago, bobbmd said:

@psjug I downloaded the beta desktop app for my mac mini and signed up for FLAC HiFi High Quality or whatever they call their best quality sound...

Thanks for the suggestion but it was a dud and I cancelled even the trial.

Fair enough.  I can't speak to your criticisms because for streaming I use Sonos and Bluesound at home and Android at work and in my car.  Never use the desktop apps. Also I never do playlists just play albums.  I found Tidal's management of downloads on their Android app to be the biggest turnoff for me.  

[bobbmd]

@psjugfair enough also- different systems different tastes nice hearing from you

[psjug]

53 minutes ago, bobbmd said:

@psjugfair enough also- different systems different tastes nice hearing from you

Likewise.  I would like to try Qobuz but not available in USA as far as I know.

[shadowlight]

15 hours ago, bobbmd said:

The final straw when I tried to play something from Deezer there was no place not even in 'preferences' to choose what I wanted to play through ie- my Schiit Gungnir or ME2 DACs- how does the music get to my avr headphones and speaker system?

How is your Gungnir connected?  Is it directly connected to your Mac?

I am using a Win10 system but all I did was to set my Sabaj Da3 as the default sound output device and I was all set.  So far I have only tried playing Deezer's pre-populated playlist but I did not have any issues.  I was able to get help directly from Deezer via instant chat when I had issues with my account.

 

I had Tidal at one point but was disappointed with the interface, where there was no way to remove all the albums from your favorites that were accidentally added by Roon.  When I reached out to Tidal support the only option available was to delete my account and start over again.  Tidal also did not allow me to create a playlist based on multiple artist similar to Pandora.

 

As Chris mentioned, Tidal has a tendency to push hip/hop on their main screen and that along with hard rock are 2 music type that I cannot seem to listen too.

 

Deezer having HiFi support is a good option.  I wish Quboz was available in US.

[psjug]

If you sign up for Qobuz using a VPN, can you then stream to the USA on a normal network?  Maybe I will see if that works.

[Samuel T Cogley]

While I was really excited about the ECM catalog coming to Tidal, the UMG audible watermarking debacle pretty much ruins it.

 

Will audiophiles have second thoughts about lossless streaming with the apparently proliferation of audible watermarking?  In my experience so far, it's very noticeable with violin.  I call it a "picket fence" effect.  And since I'm listening to a lot of classical on Tidal, Deutsche Grammophon content is unavoidable.  Apparently, DG content (and Decca, and many others) is distributed by UMG in the U.S., which means some significant amount (all?) of it is audibly watermarked.

 

I'm concerned that audible watermarking pretty much nixes any audible benefit from streaming lossless.

[shadowlight]

On 12/6/2017 at 6:26 PM, Cebolla said:

 

No. Gapless has nothing to do with Deezer's online servers, they can supply the files to 3rd party client apps that support gapless with absolutely no impact on sound quality. It is Deezer's own client desktop app that is at fault, period.

 

BTW, I have been successfully using my UPnP/DLNA devices to stream Deezer HiFi's FLAC tracks gaplessly for over a week, via the Logitech Media Server method I mentioned earlier. The connection didn't fail once and excellent SQ - no different to streaming CD res FLAC files over the home network.

 

Bit off topic.  How did you enter your Deezer credentials with Ickstream?  I seem to be missing that option?  I went to Ickstream website and under services added Deezer but I do not see the option to add username and password for Deezer.  Any idea?

[psjug]

The VPN thing worked for signing up for Qobuz.  I used a UK VPN to sign up.  Then disconnected the VPN and I can still stream in USA.  I will see if it works OK with bluesound tonight.

[shadowlight]

14 minutes ago, psjug said:

The VPN thing worked for signing up for Qobuz.  I used a UK VPN to sign up.  Then disconnected the VPN and I can still stream in USA.  I will see if it works OK with bluesound tonight.

Which VPN did you use?

 

[psjug]

2 minutes ago, shadowlight said:

Which VPN did you use?

 

I used the UK Maidenhead one listed here http://freevpnaccess.com/

 

[shadowlight]

@psjug, thx

[psjug]

5 minutes ago, shadowlight said:

@psjug, thx

I am interested to hear if the workaround works for you.

[bobbmd]

@psjug@shadowlight: Glad you both were able to get Qobuz hope you enjoy it's layout the reproductions of album covers and most of all their selections/genres/european artists and vintage artists not available in USA and especially (for me anyway) covers of Dylan, Waits and Cohen etc not found in the USA- try a Belgium punk rock alternative group from 1990's called Won-Ton-Ton and their lead singer Bea Van Der Maat- especially the album called HOME. I also feel the SQ of Qobuz's 16/44 streaming to be the better than TIDAL-but I have only downloaded a few HiRez recordings so I really can't comment on their quality. As an aside I got Qobuz years ago after a thread on CA or some other format- wrote them begged them emailed them and then with the phone help of a fellow in Mass. talked me through the process without a VPN. Qobuz gave me a French address and a North American address of New France which I always thought was pretty cheeky of them since that is what the Northeast USA would have been called if the French had won on the Plains of Abraham in the French&Indian Wars. Enjoy-I still contend Deezer is way behind in web page desktop layout etc very crude not very sophisticated or aesthetically pleasing-I find TIDAL Qobuz and even A+3/ROON and even Spotify/Pandora much more eye catching- making me want to explore their inner works selections suggestions etc.

 

 

[bobbmd]

@shadowlight just wanted to answer this directly to you ie your comment that 'TIDAL would not allow me to create a playlist of multiple artists...'

here is an example I have of the following playlists I created myself on TIDAL with multiple different artists 

1) 1931 tracks from 300+ albums of dylan,dylan covers, tributes, tribute bands & even readings of dylan thomas by richard burton!

2) solos of The Band by robbie, richard manuel, ronnie hawkins, levon, garth, rick danko and the hawks either alone together before and after the last waltz-1101 tracks

3) when gregg allman died 534 tracks of albums by him, butch trucks, allman joys etc

have done same with tom petty art garfunkel kris kristofferson et al.

Some of the albums didn't show up in my TIDAL searches initially until I searched ROON or Qobuz then typed the album into TIDAL and up it would come!

I don't like some of the stuff TIDAL 'pushes' either (don't like that term much it implies other things sort of like phil jackson's comments about lebron james's 'POSSE')I just ignore it and am happy for Jay-Z/ Beyonce etal for being great AMERICAN business people sure wish she had bought the Houston Rockets

 

[psjug]

3 hours ago, bobbmd said:

@psjug@shadowlight: Qobuz gave me a French address and a North American address of New France 

 

 

Ha Ha I live in New England I would love if we join Quebec/Canada and rebrand as New France!

[shadowlight]

So far the only VPN that I was able to connect from freevpnaccess was the one in hk.  I will try again 2 in Canada and European ones tomorrow.

[psjug]

Qobuz works great in USA once you do a workaround to sign up.  Sounds great on bluesound.  I don't know if I will go past the trial since I like Deezer and my Qobuz acct is not exactly legit, but Qobuz is cool.

[bobbmd]

@psjug i have told that line about my New France address many times-you are the only one who ever made a comment about it-thanks!

i reloaded Deezer and reactivated my subscription and it played through on both my DAC's a schiit gungnir and ME2- i have to admit Deezer's SQ does sound better. i chose an obscure Jersey Shore bar singer named Pat Guadagno and his group Tired Horses- ALL of his solo albums plus his 2009 tribute to dylan with Tired Horses came up including albums TIDAL doesn't show or that i knew about- i have(the dylan tribute...'That's a Bob Dylan Song')  in my itunes library and on TIDAL and through ROON-OMG all his albums sound better on Deezer ie clarity soundstage everything. Deezer may be a keeper on top of the sound it doesn't 'hog' the transport i can change between players/streamers and do A-B comparisons of same artists/albums between TIDAL/Qobuz/ROON/A+3 and Deezer!! the problem i will have is explaining to my CFO another 20$/month charge. i hope Deezer hooks up with ROON and i hope they will offer a way to bring over all my TIDAL and Qobuz hand made playlists and my iTunes library.

[Abtr]

4 hours ago, bobbmd said:

... i have to admit Deezer's SQ does sound better. ...

 

IF Deezer does sound better than Tidal lossless, then there are only 2 possible explanations:

 

1) Deezer has different masters of the same albums

2) You stream Deezer and Tidal from different devices with different galvanic issues

 

Basically however it's impossible. Bits are bits, you know..

 

[bobbmd]

@Abtr agree with you -maybe different masters-more likely my subjective prejudice with something new and what others have said/suggested on this thread and yes bits are bits. i played Deezer through my Schiit Gungnir in my 7 channel setup then using my ME2 in 2 channel and subjectively 'thought' Deezer sounded better and even 'better' with my wireless Sennheiser RS-195's and did A-B comparisons with TIDAL/Qobuz/ROON/A+3 and 'thought' Deezer sounded better and other cases the same but not worse.

i do like the fact that Deezer does not 'hog' the device and i can switch between different services and players. i don't especially care for the desktop app layout compared to TIDAL/Qobuz but Deezer appears to have  more selections especially with that obscure Jersey Shore troubadour Pat Guadagno-all his albums are there not in TIDAL not at all in Qobuz but alas no Won-Ton-Ton. am going to see if Barb Jungr is available on Deezer she is no longer on Qobuz but is still on TIDAL-great Dylan and Cohen covers.

nice to have another choice but like i said my CFO may have other feelings...