ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[rickca]

19 minutes ago, Joey28 said:

the Jeff rowland aeris, which runs in adaptive mode for USB

I have the same DAC, but I bought it with a Berkeley Alpha USB.  I've never even tried to use the Aeris adaptive USB.

 

It's a fantastic sounding DAC using the BNC connection from the Berkeley unit.  Once I heard the Aeris, I immediately got over my reservations about its USB input limitations.

 

The Aeris now has a new optional ultracapacitor PSU that from all reports is exceptional.  Just one problem ... it costs $8200!

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, rickca said:

The Aeris now has a new optional ultracapacitor PSU that from all reports is exceptional.  Just one problem ... it costs $8200!

 

Hey Rick.  I read about the big Rowland ultracapacitor PS at least two years ago, but it looked like it was never actually available for sale.  And as far as I can tell it still is not listed on their web site.  Would be interested in seeing output voltage and current rating specs.

 

-------------------------

 

On the subject of defective units:

Yes this has become a serious problem.  Far too many units--approaching 20%--appear to have the issue.  While this is of course hugely disappointing to all--and a product launch nightmare come true for us--we are confident that we have the matter sorted.  

My new USB protocol analyzer (same one we got John a few years ago) is giving us insights as to how and why bad units got through my earlier production screening.

I am looking forward to receiving the new batch of boards at the end of this week.  The tighter tolerance held on a particular part should yield near 100% passing, and every unit will have its 3-minute check on the analyzer to be sure.

 

Unfortunately, only 114 boards are arriving Friday, and that will not be near enough to both replace the boards in returned units and to finish fulfilling the second half of the orders for folks originally promised May 16-19th shipment.

 

Luckily, another 250 boards will be here by June 8-10, so test/assemble/ship should move swiftly in the days (and nights) following.

 

We are really sorry for the difficulty and delay gentlemen.  We greatly appreciate your patience and understanding.  I am sure you all know that we stand behind our products, and that anyone who received a problem unit gets top priority--ahead of other order fulfillments.  

 

The good news of course is that about 75% of the shipped units are working perfectly.  And as expected and intended, ISO REGEN is producing glorious music in your systems.  At least that's what I read from all your terrific reports!

 

Thanks and regards,

Alex C.

[guzmanatm]

I've had the ISO Regen in my system now for almost a week. It replaces a USB Regen which I've owned for over a year.

 

My initial impressions with the ISO Regen been VERY positive. Listening to Kamasi Washington's 'The Epic' and I'm impressed at how involving and organic the sound is. The best way I can describe it is having a more natural presentation. At the same time it sounds more neutral and musical, with extension at both ends that I have not heard previously. Several 'WOW!' moments to be sure. Listening to another favorite of mine, Matthew Bengtson, Scriabin piano sonatas, and the realism, subtlety and finese is as good as anything I have heard. 
Definite improvement in dynamics over the USB Regen, which in itself was a big improvement in my setup detailed below:

 

Windows 10 Pro (Fidelizer Pro > Foobar2000 [bitperfect]) > ISO Regen powered by LPS-1 > iFi Micro iDSD > Neco Soundlabs V5 > Audeze LCD-X

 

Both LPS-1 and computer are plugged into a 500 VA Topaz isolation transformer. I've never tried an Intona in my otherwise relatively modest system, and unfortunately I haven't had a chance to test the USPCB connector that comes with the ISO Regen because my micro iDSD has the unusual USB A-type input.

 

One interesting note: it turns out I'm one of the few who will set my ISO Regen to disable the galvanic isolation. I have a USB-bus-powered DAC (micro iDSD) and battery-powered headamp (Neco V5), and apparently due to the lack of grounding in my system - as described by Superdad elsewhere in this thread - my micro iDSD spontaneously shuts off after several hours of listening. However, once I switched off ("defeated") the ISO Regen's GI as instructed, the random shutoffs haven't occurred. I've yet to do any serious A-B comparisons with the ISO Regen's GI on vs off. My very early impressions are that the ISO Regen with GI off seems to result in somewhat less depth and clarity. But the difference is very minor and system dependent so YMMV. Don't get me wrong, even without GI or being properly burned in, this ISO Regen is still a major improvement and thoroughly smokes any other USB widgets/"reclockers" I've tried.

[yellowblue]

Got my IR yesterday and really like what I hear - after 20 hours burn in already  (I had some very occasional dropouts the first two hours, but no more after that).The sound is really difficult to describe - more depth or maybe more holographic soundstage? I definitely get a feeling that the recording location gets much more real and closer when hearing through the IR. Damian Rice "0" became stunningly real.

It was a nice surprise to me that the changes are clearly detectable - despite using the IR with my MicroRendu and Chord Dave (which already is galvanic isolated).

 

My setup: Silent PC with stripped down W10 and AO > Aqvox switch > MicroRendu (powered by LPS-1) > JCAT USB-cable > Iso Regen (powered by MCRU 7V) > USPCB > Chord Dave (by the way - nice to see that the USPCB 90 degrees and the MicroRendu leaves enough space for the RCA-cables plugged into the DAVE).

[esmit]

11 minutes ago, yellowblue said:

Got my IR yesterday and really like what I hear - after 20 hours burn in already  (I had some very occasional dropouts the first two hours, but no more after that).The sound is really difficult to describe - more depth or maybe more holographic soundstage? I definitely get a feeling that the recording location gets much more real and closer when hearing through the IR. Damian Rice "0" became stunningly real.

It was a nice surprise to me that the changes are clearly detectable - despite using the IR with my MicroRendu and Chord Dave (which already is galvanic isolated).

 

My setup: Silent PC with stripped down W10 and AO > Aqvox switch > MicroRendu (powered by LPS-1) > JCAT USB-cable > Iso Regen (powered by MCRU 7V) > USPCB > Chord Dave (by the way - nice to see that the USPCB 90 degrees and the MicroRendu leaves enough space for the RCA-cables plugged into the DAVE).

Did you try LPS-1 on IsoRegen and MCRU on microRendu? I would keep the goodness of the LPS-1 as close to the DAC as possible.

 

I have a LPS-1 powering microRendu (and iPurifier), curious USB link to IsoRegen powered by another LPS-1 linked by USPCB to Chord Hugo TT. 

 

The biggest step in quality for me was the addition of the LPS-1 to the microRendu.

 

Since yesterday I added IsoRegen and second LPS-1 but I will wait for it to burn in before any definite remarks about the change. For now, it is not as big a step as adding the LPS-1 to the microRendu a few months back.

[darkless]

I received my ISO REGEN two days ago from Martin @ VortexBox, and like a few others I also experienced dropouts which could only be resolved by unplugging and reconnecting the USB connection to my DAC. However, bypassing the isolation mechanism using the switch on the ISO REGEN made the problem go away. I replaced my cheap 2-prong mains distribution block (no earth) with a proper 3-prong mains block and I'm back to enjoying sweet music like never before.

[Superdad]

35 minutes ago, darkless said:

I received my ISO REGEN two days ago from Martin @ VortexBox, and like a few others I also experienced dropouts which could only be resolved by unplugging and reconnecting the USB connection to my DAC. However, bypassing the isolation mechanism using the switch on the ISO REGEN made the problem go away. I replaced my cheap 2-prong mains distribution block (no earth) with a proper 3-prong mains block and I'm back to enjoying sweet music like never before.

 

Hi Darkless:

 

Thanks for your report.  So after properly "earthing" your system, were you also able to set the ISO REGEN's red switch back to the ISO (down) position and not experience any ticks?  

If so, then that is the way it should be and was designed to be.  Your initial trouble, while seeming like the symptoms of those with "bad" boards, is actually not related at all.

 

Sorry if this confuses some folks.  True galvanic isolation is a tricky thing and sometimes invites other issues in.

In any case, we are glad you got it sorted and are, as you say, "enjoying sweet music like never before."

 

Please let us know if we can assist further.

Regards,

--Alex C.

[guzmanatm]

8 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Thanks Alex, 

 

I'll email Martin now. 

 

I thought it was my overcomplicated system, or I'd hooked the wrong power cables to the wrong items!  Spent a lot of the weekend on my knees near the rack swearing at my phone! 

 

No worries - I'll get the return arranged and await my replacement. 

 

Not sure if you've read Alex's most recent post above regarding the ISO Regen's red switch which turns isolation off/on. You may want to try disabling the ISO Regen's isolation to see if the dropouts still occur. I had an issue with dropouts until I flipped the isolation switch to the UP position on the back.

 

I'm only commenting because you mentioned that the sound is good, and you haven't heard the "crackling" described by others who received a bum unit.

 

In any case, best of luck and happy listening.

[lmitche]

25 minutes ago, guzmanatm said:

 

Not sure if you've read Alex's most recent post above regarding the ISO Regen's red switch which turns isolation off/on. You may want to try disabling the ISO Regen's isolation to see if the dropouts still occur. I had an issue with dropouts until I flipped the isolation switch to the UP position on the back.

 

I'm only commenting because you mentioned that the sound is good, and you haven't heard the "crackling" described by others who received a bum unit.

 

In any case, best of luck and happy listening.

Alternatively one of the downstream devices can be grounded, which might eliminate the dropouts.  I had the drop out problem, and had to run with the isolation turned off in the ISO Regen.  Later I flipped the grounding switch on my amp from isolation to ground. Now when the isolation switch is enabled on the ISO Regen the disconnects are gone. SQ is improved as well.

[fpalm69]

I have a mRendu powered by the LPS-1.  Can those that added the Iso Regen//USPCB between the mRendu and DAC tell us how the SQ changed?

 

Also,  will one LPS-1 power both the mRendu and the Iso Regen using a Y-cable?

Thanks!

[darkless]

5 hours ago, Superdad said:

Thanks for your report.  So after properly "earthing" your system, were you also able to set the ISO REGEN's red switch back to the ISO (down) position and not experience any ticks?  

If so, then that is the way it should be and was designed to be.  Your initial trouble, while seeming like the symptoms of those with "bad" boards, is actually not related at all.

 

Sorry if this confuses some folks.  True galvanic isolation is a tricky thing and sometimes invites other issues in.

In any case, we are glad you got it sorted and are, as you say, "enjoying sweet music like never before."

 

Please let us know if we can assist further.

Regards,

--Alex C.

Hi Alex,

 

Yes, as soon as I established a proper "earth", I was able to re-enable the galvanic isolation (switch set to ISO).

 

Having already read this thread and the other ISO REGEN thread, I felt confident that my earthing solution would likely solve the initial dropouts. No trouble here.

 

Thanks again for your excellent customer service and comments here on CA. Hopefully my feedback will contribute to others finding similar solutions to their dropouts issues.

 

Just to repeat what Alex said, the above mentioned dropouts issue due to lack of earth connection is not to be confused with the crackling sounds due to a bad board in some of the ISO REGENs from the original batch. Alex is resolving this as soon as humanly possible. Be sure to let him know if you suffer from this.

[Al Jones]

With more than 200 hours on my Iso Regen, I can safely conclude that the break-in period is complete with results similar to those already reported.

 

Running separate LPS-1's for microrendu and Iso Regen, there is a newfound clarity and definition that keeps me coming back to old musical favorites and discovering previous overlooked nuances.

 

But there's more!

 

With USPCB's replacing my usual ultra-short USB cables (Curious, Aqvox, Elijah) in and out of the Iso (borrowed a second USPCB from a friend), it became possible to replace my 50 cm DC power cables (Sonore DC-4, Paul Hynes silver) with solid DC-DC adaptors.

 

The improvement from totally eliminating four lengths of USB and DC power cables takes things up a further notch in musical realism.

 

If at all possible, completely removing these cables is something I strongly recommend.

[yellowblue]

24 minutes ago, Al Jones said:

With USPCB's replacing my usual ultra-short USB cables (Curious, Aqvox, Elijah) in and out of the Iso (borrowed a second USPCB from a friend), it became possible to replace my 50 cm DC power cables (Sonore DC-4, Paul Hynes silver) with solid DC-DC adaptors.

 

If at all possible, completely removing these cables is something I strongly recommend.

 

How do you manage to do that? Can you show a picture? I am planning to order a UltraRendu in the future. I wonder if it will be possible to use a USPCB with it (even if I don´t know yet if the Iso Regen will make sense after a UltraRendu). Would it be possible to do UltraRendu>USPCB>Iso Regen>USPCB>DAC?

[guzmanatm]

9 hours ago, lmitche said:

Alternatively one of the downstream devices can be grounded, which might eliminate the dropouts.  I had the drop out problem, and had to run with the isolation turned off in the ISO Regen.  Later I flipped the grounding switch on my amp from isolation to ground. Now when the isolation switch is enabled on the ISO Regen the disconnects are gone. SQ is improved as well.

 

Thanks, Larry. This is another good point and possible solution. I was suggesting the red isolation switch on the ISO Regen as a starting point to see whether grounding is indeed Alan's issue. If the red switch alleviates the dropouts Alan was experiencing, its safe to say that he should look to ground one of his other components and re-enable the ISO Regen's isolation switch.

 

Unfortunately, given the nature of my system - USB-bus powered DAC and battery powered headphone amp - I don't really have an option to ground any of my components. I'm going to try bypassing my Topaz isolation transformer with one or more of my components to see how it sounds with the ISO Regen now in the picture. I'm curious to see how that might affect the SQ. I did notice a solid improvement when I added the Topaz to my system last year . . . I guess we'll see!

[ElviaCaprice]

11 hours ago, lmitche said:

Alternatively one of the downstream devices can be grounded, which might eliminate the dropouts.  I had the drop out problem, and had to run with the isolation turned off in the ISO Regen.  Later I flipped the grounding switch on my amp from isolation to ground. Now when the isolation switch is enabled on the ISO Regen the disconnects are gone. SQ is improved as well.

 

I would imagine so.  You don't want this electrical noise traveling through your DAC.  If your finding you have dropouts with the ISO Regen GI, then more than likely you've got problems that need to be addressed elsewhere.

[scottmac62]

Just wondering if anyone can compare the tonality of the original REGEN to that of the IR.  

[Tone Deaf]

50 minutes ago, scottmac62 said:

Just wondering if anyone can compare the tonality of the original REGEN to that of the IR.  

One comparison here:  

 

[Daudio]

1 hour ago, scottmac62 said:

Just wondering if anyone can compare the tonality of the original REGEN to that of the IR.  

 

I wouldn't go looking for 'tonality' in the SQ of the Regen family, at least in the old bass->treble, tone color, type of thing. I think you would have better results if you looked for 'veil lifting', 'lower noise', 'clarity', and such-like.

Often, how we think and talk about something, influences how we perceive it (or not). IMHO, of course 

 

[scottmac62]

Thanks for the comparison Tone Deaf.  More organic is what I am looking for, and this is what I have experience with the original REGEN.  I was using mine with a Bel Canto Reflink SPDIF converter and never noticed any improvement in sound staging, but the music was more relaxed with improved vocal timbres.  If the IR improves on this, I will be a very happy customer.  

[R1200CL]

18 hours ago, fpalm69 said:

Also,  will one LPS-1 power both the mRendu and the Iso Regen using a Y-cable?

 

Yes. (Pure technical speaking)

[jcn3]

17 hours ago, scottmac62 said:

Thanks for the comparison Tone Deaf.  More organic is what I am looking for, and this is what I have experience with the original REGEN.  I was using mine with a Bel Canto Reflink SPDIF converter and never noticed any improvement in sound staging, but the music was more relaxed with improved vocal timbres.  If the IR improves on this, I will be a very happy customer.  

 

I'm really enjoying the ISO Regen -- definitely a step up from the original Regen.  I'm finding the ISO Regen more organic, more natural, more effortless is its presentation.  I'm switching dacs so temporarily using an original VDAC.  The ISO Regen even makes that sound sweet!

 

BTW -- I have a straight USPCB with mine, but now could use a right angle one.  Anyone want to trade?!

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, BigAlMc said:

 

However it dropped out overnight. i.e this morning I had to reset the MicroRendu before Roon saw it as an audio device.

 

So I thought to myself, what's the only thing II do at night that I don't do during the day. Sleep! Ok what's the only other thing I do at night. Power off on my amp. Tried putting the amp off for 10 mins. But still no dropouts.

 

Hi Alan:

Was your system playing music all night (even with the amps off)? If no music was playing that very little data was being transferred, so I don't think the disconnect is related to the ISO REGEN.

 

USB chains can be tricky and sensitive things.  You have the microRendu, the ISO REGEN, and the DAC--plus whatever cables--all interacting, and at some point one of them either "fell asleep" (USB receivers in the DAC and the PHYs in the sources each have slept modes), prompting the other to break the connection, or some other little glitch occurred.  A power brown-out can also occur in the night while you sleep. 

 

Please continue to use and enjoy your system as is for now and feel free to e-mail me other reports so I can ask you other questions about your gear and set up.  But no, at this point I do not think you got a bum unit.  Martin will be receiving a few boards for the couple of his clients that clearly drew the short straw with a error-prone ISO REGEN.  Maybe late in the month--after his next shipment of a dozen-plus complete kits--you can try out another to see if that changes anything.

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

[austinpop]

On 5/30/2017 at 10:54 PM, fpalm69 said:

Also,  will one LPS-1 power both the mRendu and the Iso Regen using a Y-cable?

Thanks!

 

Hopefully what I am about to say will echo @Superdad's views, but if not, he should correct me!

 

There are certainly applications where using a Y-cable to power 2 components from a single LPS-1 should work perfectly fine, with minimal loss of SQ. As long as the aggregate current demand of both components is within the 1.1A capability of the LPS-1, it should work. Obviously, the quality of the cable, the Y-adapter, etc will play a role, but overall, it's still a workable solution.

 

However...

 

The mR + ISO-Regen combo should not be powered by a single LPS-1. Why? because the ISO-R is an isolation device, with an electronic moat within it. Upstream of the moat, the circuit is powered by the USB device upstream of the ISO-R (in this case, an mR) using USB bus power. The ISO-R's PSU powers the circuits downstream of the moat, and provides the signal integrity, isolation, and clean bus power to the USB device downstream of it.

 

By powering the mR and ISO-R with the same LPS-1, you're effectively providing a common ground path around the isolation moat designed into the product. This is like turning the GI switch to off. Now, the audible degradation due to this is system-dependent. For some it may be minimal, for others, dramatic.

 

Interestingly, using a single LPS-1 to power both the ISO-R and something downstream (assuming the aforementioned constraints are met) should be just fine.

 

So - net, net - it's not about whether powering 2 devices with a single LPS-1 with Y-cable is bad. It's which 2 devices.

 

 

[tboooe]

6 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Interestingly, using a single LPS-1 to power both the ISO-R and something downstream (assuming the aforementioned constraints are met) should be just fine.

From my personal experience, using an LPS-1 to power the IsoRegen and my SU-1 did not sound as good as using separate power supplies.  I do not (yet) have a second LPS-1 but I did test powering the IsoRegen with a common external battery and it sounded better than sharing a single LPS-1 in my system.

 

I am not smart enough to understand the electrical implications of sharing an LPS-1 with the IsoRegen and SU-1.  Perhaps someone can help explain the implications?

[austinpop]

Just now, tboooe said:

From my personal experience, using an LPS-1 to power the IsoRegen and my SU-1 did not sound as good as using separate power supplies.  I do not (yet) of a second LPS-1 but I did test powering the IsoRegen with a common external battery and it sounded better than sharing a single LPS-1 in my system.

 

I am not smart enough to understand the electrical implications of sharing an LPS-1 with the IsoRegen and SU-1.  Perhaps someone can help explain the implications?

 

Tommy,

 

Yes, I should have qualified my closing comment there. I didn't mean to say that there was no degradation at all from sharing vs. separate LPS-1s. Just that the degradation would be greater if powering the mR/IR combo.