A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[mozes]

Has anyone compared AQVOX or AQVOX SE and SOTM modded switch?

[Cornan]

10 hours ago, tapatrick said:

yes I saw that. I've bought a Rpi 2 tho' as it's apparently quieter but haven't tried it yet. The Sparky is where my money and attention is currently but had a few glitches so I'm working on that when I have the time... too many options to try..

 

Pi is a little world of its own!  Do you use Alexey´s Mezzanine Power Board in the mix by any chance? http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/mpower.htm

[tapatrick]

24 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Pi is a little world of its own!  Do you use Alexey´s Mezzanine Power Board in the mix by any chance? http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/mpower.htm

No, I may get it down the line, but I have enough PSUs already to get everything working. Sparky, McFifo and McDualXO each need 5v 2a and Audio gd HDMI module needs 3.3v

[Confused]

7 hours ago, mozes said:

Has anyone compared AQVOX or AQVOX SE and SOTM modded switch?

Not me, but I nearly have!  I bought the original AQVOX switch, and after much A/B testing with a standard switch, I returned the AQVOX.  In my system it appeared to do nothing.  I even tried the ports 1 & 8 thing, connecting the case of the AQVOX to earth, nothing, I could not discern any improvement.

 

Soon I will be installing the SOtM modified switch that came with the 'Ultra bundle' I bought.  I am genuinely fascinated to see if the SOtM item can add something.  Of course this is not an entirely like for like test with the AQVOX, as I have added the REF10 and SOtM kit now, plus I have an LPS-1 I can use, but I will be mightily impressed if the SOtM switch delivers any improvement.

[BigAlMc]

Yeah it's a good question. 

 

I have the Aqvox SE and it really adds something in terms of streaming from Tidal. 

 

Likewise I recently added the TX-USBultra and it really adds something to the USB output from my server. 

 

So the 64,000 dollar question is whether an SOtM modded switch sharing the clock goodness of the sCLk-EX would outperform the Aqvox SE doing its own independent reclocking. 

 

I guess it's partially a clock quality question and partially a synergy thing. 

 

Other unknowns are whether the other specs (capacitors etc) give the Aqvox an edge. 

 

I don't know but would love to see or better still hear a playoff. 

 

All of the above is based on no external reference clock. I say that because surely by the time you add a Cybershaft, Ref-10 or sCLK-OCX10 into the mix then the SOtM switch has a massive theoretical advantage? Not exactly a level playing field at that stage. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[mozes]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

Soon I will be installing the SOtM modified switch that came with the 'Ultra bundle' I bought.  I am genuinely fascinated to see if the SOtM item can add something.  Of course this is not an entirely like for like test with the AQVOX, as I have added the REF10 and SOtM kit now, plus I have an LPS-1 I can use, but I will be mightily impressed if the SOtM switch delivers any improvement.

I liked both the AQVOX and the Sotm modded switch, but never had them at the same time to do an A/B test. Keep us posted when the switch is burned in.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

All of the above is based on no external reference clock. I say that because surely by the time you add a Cybershaft, Ref-10 or sCLK-OCX10 into the mix then the SOtM switch has a massive theoretical advantage? Not exactly a level playing field at that stage. 

I agree and if someone already has or planning to get SOTM gear then from a cost perspective, the modded switch becomes a no brainer.

[Confused]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

I agree and if someone already has or planning to get SOTM gear then from a cost perspective, the modded switch becomes a no brainer.

A no brainer suits me perfectly!  I am of course doing exactly what is described above, with the switch taking the clock from a REF10 fed sMS-200Ultra.  I am genuinely intrigued by this one.  Consider that recently I have tried different PSU's on my mR, with a noticeable difference, swap the mR for SOtM kit, very noticeable difference, different power to SOtM kit, noticeable difference, add the REF10, huge difference, and so on.  The AQVOX, no difference.  Part of me thinks the SOtM modified switch will make no difference also, but I remain open minded.

[octaviars]

22 minutes ago, Confused said:

Part of me thinks the SOtM modified switch will make no difference also, but I remain open minded.

 

SOtM hopes to show their own switch at München fair but I have no information on it perhaps @MayfromSOtM can shed some light.....

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, Confused said:

A no brainer suits me perfectly!  I am of course doing exactly what is described above, with the switch taking the clock from a REF10 fed sMS-200Ultra.  I am genuinely intrigued by this one.  Consider that recently I have tried different PSU's on my mR, with a noticeable difference, swap the mR for SOtM kit, very noticeable difference, different power to SOtM kit, noticeable difference, add the REF10, huge difference, and so on.  The AQVOX, no difference.  Part of me thinks the SOtM modified switch will make no difference also, but I remain open minded.

 

Don't stress. Trust your own ears.

 

At least with the SOtM-modded switch, its incremental cost in your clock chain is relatively modest, so even if you hear no improvement, you're not out a lot of money.

[Confused]

19 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Don't stress. Trust your own ears.

 

At least with the SOtM-modded switch, its incremental cost in your clock chain is relatively modest, so even if you hear no improvement, you're not out a lot of money.

Indeed so.  As part of the SOtM 'bundle' the switch was a £70 add on, budget USB cable money some might say, and not than much more than just a normal switch.  So stress levels will be very low with this one, and if I do get just the slightest hint of improved SQ, I will be a vey happy boy.

[tedwoods]

7 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

SOtM hopes to show their own switch at München fair but I have no information on it perhaps @MayfromSOtM can shed some light.....

It will have eight ports... That's all that was disclosed to me. 

[FredM]

Is there any news on SOtM releasing a new one box solution soon?

About a half year ago some rumours, but since then silence.

[Ben2300]

55 minutes ago, tedwoods said:

It will have eight ports... That's all that was disclosed to me. 

I’m just going to say this out loud and see if i can get something right. 

 

1. 8 ports so it most likely be base on DLink, Netgear, TPLink or Zxytel.

2. It will be based on smaller size of their sclk-ex since you don’t need that many lead for switch.

3 with option master clock input 

4. 9v / 12v jumper

5. Price at $999 w $200 master clock option.

6. Come with wall power supply for 9v

[auricgoldfinger]

11 minutes ago, Ben2300 said:

5. Price at $999 w $200 master clock option

 

You're probably in the right ballpark

[seeteeyou]

Just an FYI - some of us should have already read these posts by @romaz and IMHO they're great for explaining why system clocks do make a difference

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-196#post-14103668

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-199#post-14107124

 

The parts about USB cables as well as ZENith SE versus laptop were so interesting. An SMPS inside Blu Mk. 2 or DAVE might not really "hurt" the M-Scaler or the DAC itself but even Rob Watts agreed that other components were still affected. No wonder some of us would prefer a linear rather switching PSU as the "energizers" of either LPS-1 or LPS-1.2.

 

We've got so many different ways to reduce / eliminate all that noise while sometimes we could have prevented that to be generated in the first place. SOtM is well known for their filtering while both sCLK-EX and 10MHz master clock are great for replacing noisy clocks. Of course the weakest link inside sCLK-EX should be those 50Ω RF cables that are terminated with tiny little U.FL connectors. We just don't have (much) better choices unless we're willing to cut those expensive 50Ω clock cables up before they're reterminated.

 

Speaking of clock cables, 75Ω ones that are designed for 12G-SDI / 4K UHD should have lower signal attenuation (loss) even though Belden and Canare etc. are pricing those products so competitively. Of course their best models 4731R and L-8CHD should work even better than the rest but we'll have to make an effort to acquire them. BTW, it would be interesting to try those 4K UHD media patch cords such as Belden AV2183R but so far none of us seemed to be interested.

 

Thankfully 3M EMI/RFI absorbers don't cost that much and they could be useful for the mitigation of noise. Similar stuff called PULSHUT and PULSHUT MU are also available from the DAC chips maker Asahi Kasei. We could find them inside Oppo BDP-105DJP, an audio PC called ADIVA from Abee and Onkyo, or even HDMI / LAN / USB cables from AIM Electronics. Acoustic Revive also added something else called FINEMET (from Hitachi) to their products for suppressing the noise, of course we could also find some FINEMET beads and sheets on Amazon or Rakuten ourselves. Some audiophiles already quite a few positive reviews on Amazon etc. Even transformers could be made from FINEMET, we could get them from Noguchi, Samizu Acoustics, and Teramoto etc.

 

Electrolytic filter caps from Mundorf etc. are found inside some products from Innuos and they're designed by Sean Jacobs of Custom HiFi Cables. Innuos actually tested dozens of motherboards by measuring the noise patterns with a very detailed oscilloscope. Isolation transformers could be found on those Ethernet ports of Supermicro X10SBA-L but not sure if they're customized / modified etc.

 

Regarding Ethernet cables and connectors, M12 should work much better than RJ45 in terms of EMI/RFI shielding

 

 

 

Let's see who's gonna be the first one who would like to give M12 a shot by sending that kinda switch to SOtM.

[mozes]

55 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Acoustic Revive also added something else called FINEMET (from Hitachi) to their products for suppressing the noise, of course we could also find some FINEMET beads and sheets on Amazon or Rakuten ourselves. Some audiophiles already quite a few positive reviews on Amazon etc. Even transformers could be made from FINEMET, we could get them from Noguchi, Samizu Acoustics, and Teramoto etc.

This is interesting, thanks for sharing!

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

Just an FYI - some of us should have already read these posts by @romaz and IMHO they're great for explaining why system clocks do make a difference

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-196#post-14103668

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-199#post-14107124

 

The parts about USB cables as well as ZENith SE versus laptop were so interesting. An SMPS inside Blu Mk. 2 or DAVE might not really "hurt" the M-Scaler or the DAC itself but even Rob Watts agreed that other components were still affected. No wonder some of us would prefer a linear rather switching PSU as the "energizers" of either LPS-1 or LPS-1.2.

 

We've got so many different ways to reduce / eliminate all that noise while sometimes we could have prevented that to be generated in the first place. SOtM is well known for their filtering while both sCLK-EX and 10MHz master clock are great for replacing noisy clocks. Of course the weakest link inside sCLK-EX should be those 50Ω RF cables that are terminated with tiny little U.FL connectors. We just don't have (much) better choices unless we're willing to cut those expensive 50Ω clock cables up before they're reterminated.

 

Speaking of clock cables, 75Ω ones that are designed for 12G-SDI / 4K UHD should have lower signal attenuation (loss) even though Belden and Canare etc. are pricing those products so competitively. Of course their best models 4731R and L-8CHD should work even better than the rest but we'll have to make an effort to acquire them. BTW, it would be interesting to try those 4K UHD media patch cords such as Belden AV2183R but so far none of us seemed to be interested.

 

Thankfully 3M EMI/RFI absorbers don't cost that much and they could be useful for the mitigation of noise. Similar stuff called PULSHUT and PULSHUT MU are also available from the DAC chips maker Asahi Kasei. We could find them inside Oppo BDP-105DJP, an audio PC called ADIVA from Abee and Onkyo, or even HDMI / LAN / USB cables from AIM Electronics. Acoustic Revive also added something else called FINEMET (from Hitachi) to their products for suppressing the noise, of course we could also find some FINEMET beads and sheets on Amazon or Rakuten ourselves. Some audiophiles already quite a few positive reviews on Amazon etc. Even transformers could be made from FINEMET, we could get them from Noguchi, Samizu Acoustics, and Teramoto etc.

 

Electrolytic filter caps from Mundorf etc. are found inside some products from Innuos and they're designed by Sean Jacobs of Custom HiFi Cables. Innuos actually tested dozens of motherboards by measuring the noise patterns with a very detailed oscilloscope. Isolation transformers could be found on those Ethernet ports of Supermicro X10SBA-L but not sure if they're customized / modified etc.

 

Regarding Ethernet cables and connectors, M12 should work much better than RJ45 in terms of EMI/RFI shielding

 

 

 

Let's see who's gonna be the first one who would like to give M12 a shot by sending that kinda switch to SOtM.

 

that's when an asynchronous USB transfer protocol is used

 

what happens if something other than USB is used, like TOSLINK for example?

 

also, romaz didn't describe the sound - what does it sound like when a better system clock is used?  

[MayfromSOtM]

12 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

SOtM hopes to show their own switch at München fair but I have no information on it perhaps @MayfromSOtM can shed some light.....

Hi octaviars,

SOtM switch will have 8 LAN ports and 2 SFP ports, the sCLK-EX would be added as an option which means the master clock signal can be synced externally also..

Best regards, May

[mozes]

18 minutes ago, MayfromSOtM said:

Hi octaviars,

SOtM switch will have 8 LAN ports and 2 SFP ports, the sCLK-EX would be added as an option which means the master clock signal can be synced externally also..

Best regards, May

Any indication on the price?

[BigAlMc]

19 hours ago, Confused said:

The AQVOX, no difference.  Part of me thinks the SOtM modified switch will make no difference also, but I remain open minded.

 

I dunno if this is system dependent, YMMV or my incompetence but for me the Aqvox SE defo improves the SQ for Tidal. 

 

Last weekend based on the advice on a couple different threads I powered the Aqvox with a spare LPS-1 and heard a slight improvement again. 

 

However when I tried the John Svensson shunting techniques on my previous switch and bought the recommended Netgear model - nada!

 

Could not hear a difference at all. But everyone else was waxing lyrical about the transformation. Its entirely possible I just screwed it up. But that was a couple weekends wasted (not that there is such a thing when I'm messing around with my system ) as I just didn't hear a difference. 

 

Very intrigued by the prospect of an SOtM switch!  

 

Much as I like my Aqvox SE the question/prospect of having the switch and my TX-USBultra running off the same clock is intriguing. (I bought the TX-USBultra long after I bought the Aqvox for anyone wondering why I didn't get the SOtM modded switch). 

 

Fascinating times for Tidal/streaming peeps! 

 

Cheers 

Alan 

[tapatrick]

4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

I dunno if this is system dependent, YMMV or my incompetence but for me the Aqvox SE defo improves the SQ for Tidal. 

 

Last weekend based on the advice on a couple different threads I powered the Aqvox with a spare LPS-1 and heard a slight improvement again. 

 

However when I tried the John Svensson shunting techniques on my previous switch and bought the recommended Netgear model - nada!

 

Could not hear a difference at all. But everyone else was waxing lyrical about the transformation. Its entirely possible I just screwed it up. But that was a couple weekends wasted (not that there is such a thing when I'm messing around with my system ) as I just didn't hear a difference. 

 

Very intrigued by the prospect of an SOtM switch!  

 

Much as I like my Aqvox SE the question/prospect of having the switch and my TX-USBultra running off the same clock is intriguing. (I bought the TX-USBultra long after I bought the Aqvox for anyone wondering why I didn't get the SOtM modded switch). 

 

Fascinating times for Tidal/streaming peeps! 

 

Cheers 

Alan 

Likewise Alan my Aqvox switch now powered by an SR4 gives one of the most significant improvements to my system. Tidal out performs local files and the grounding shunt has no effect. 

 

Definitely shows what better clocking can do ...

[tedwoods]

17 hours ago, Ben2300 said:

I’m just going to say this out loud and see if i can get something right. 

 

1. 8 ports so it most likely be base on DLink, Netgear, TPLink or Zxytel.

2. It will be based on smaller size of their sclk-ex since you don’t need that many lead for switch.

3 with option master clock input 

4. 9v / 12v jumper

5. Price at $999 w $200 master clock option.

6. Come with wall power supply for 9v

I sincerely hope you' d be wrong about no. 5...

[BigAlMc]

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

Likewise Alan my Aqvox switch now powered by an SR4 gives one of the most significant improvements to my system. Tidal out performs local files and the grounding shunt has no effect. 

 

Definitely shows what better clocking can do ...

 

Thanks Patrick,

 

Glad the jury is out on my incompetence! 

[spotforscott]

Full trifecta is up and operational (GS105 modded switch, sms200 with clock mod and txUSB ULTRA - all powered with LPS 1.2, on a dedicated line). USB Ultra serves as the master clock. I have been using a modded mac mini as a bridged server - powered by JS-2, as is the synology NAS, on a dedicated line 

.

Heard jaw-dropping improvement today that I wanted share...

 

First a little context: It's no secret (from posts I have made) that I have had my difficulties setting all of this up and getting it running. Well, all is good except for Roon not being able to find NAS. I have ordered a ST i7 with 2TB of storage - it will be replacing the modded Mini Mac anbd taking the NAS out of the system!

 

Anyways, because I will soon be switching out the mac mini and running my files from the ST i7 server rather, I took the JS-2 power away from the NAS and plugged it into the cable modem. I also used a better totaldac ethernet cable to connect it to the Mini Mac.

 

...OMFG, this change produced a massive improvement! I thought the system was a little hard/ edgy sounding because more burn in was needed. It turns out that the real problem was source noise. Seriously, a massive improvement! However, keep in mind that it was not just the JS-2 that made the difference, I am sure the dedicated line helped too. Line it was on previously has TV, apple TV and cable box on it too.

 

Moral of the story is, don't assume you can ignore the quality of power going to the cable modem because you have a bridged connection, modded switch and expensive SoTM ethernet cables (dCBL-CAT7) feeding your sms200. I was truly shocked by the difference.

 

That inspired me to do John's shunt trick on the modded switch and yet again, a really nice improvement - none of this subtle! I am sitting here just blown away by how this stupid noise gets in the way of the music - thanks to everyone for helping me understand how to get my system to a level I have never hear before