Building a DIY Music Server

[Marcin_gps]

8 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Live the timing of this post. Good on you Marcin. Competitive market place. 

 

It was a coincidence. I've not checked this topic for a while and was not even aware that taiko is releasing a dc-atx board. 

 

But I have to admit-   the timing was perfect :)

 

Regards, 
Marcin

[JayM]

2 hours ago, magnium said:

Welcome @JayM

 

For those who pre-order the Taiko DC DC-ATX and interested in the Taiko DIY case, is there a possibility of consolidating the orders to save shipping costs?

 

Hard to say if I will order the case without knowing the design and cost but just throwing it out there!

 

Unfortunately for now it is not possible to consolidate shipping of these two items due to our internal logistics. The DC DC-ATX's only require a few more components before we can fully assemble and ship them. The DIY chassis however requires a lot more production steps to be completed before they can be shipped, this might take a while.

 

I have high hopes that I will be able to share some drawings or 'renders' of the DIY chassis with everyone on this forum tomorrow when I'm back at the office. Exact costs are not yet clear, this will be communicated in due time.

 

Hopefully I've answered all your questions.

Jay

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

@Nenon I am under the impression that the transformer should be available for sale independent of the chassis. I should be able to buy the DC DC-ATX along with the transformer. Is that not the case ?

 

That is the case. There will be plenty of transformers, since the minimum order Emile had to place was quite big. It was the only way to get this transformer (which I liked the most in my tests). 

As for the shipping and ordering logistics, ETAs, etc. I will leave it to @JayM. 

 

[mikicasellas]

7 hours ago, JayM said:

Hello everyone! 

 

My real name is Jelle, but all my American/English friends call me Jay. Somehow my Dutch name keeps – unintentionally - being pronounced as Jelly or Yellow.

 

So, hello everyone, I am Jay! ;)

 

For a - relatively short – while I’ve been working closely with Emile, Edward, Ton, Ted and Wout at Taiko audio. We’ve recently moved from our old, shared facility in Hengelo to our own new headquarters in Oldenzaal. Our new location and set-up will allow us to do a lot more development and testing.

 

To manage the ever-increasing complexity of our operation, Emile has asked me to work with him as General Manager for Taiko Audio. In the coming months we will try to streamline our production and logistics process to expedite the time between order placements and actual shipping. This will enable us to fulfil orders faster and faster in the coming months.

 

That brings me to the reason why I’ve decided to introduce myself in this thread.  Until now we’ve only shipped a very limited amount of DC DC-ATX’s for testing.  If our supplier delivers some of the last needed components for the DC DC-ATX as scheduled, we will be able to ship all existing (paid) pre-orders on the 30th of April. 

 

Everyone who pre-ordered a DC DC-ATX can expect an email in the upcoming days:)

 

Bienvenido !!

[bit01]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:28 PM, bit01 said:

Thumbs up to the Furutech FP-S55N mentioned above. I have tried it in JSSG and the FP-S032N on the PHD SR7T dual rail. They both offered similar performance but were better than a bunch of others I tried.

I believe the connectors (Wattgate EVOs) I have on the FP-S55N can be improved. I noticed a slightly better SQ when I removed the plastic backshells (please do not try this for safety reasons -your own and others in your home!! )

 

On 2/8/2021 at 2:34 PM, ASRMichael said:

That’s my findings also. I used to use wattgate but then moved to Furutech NCF type connectors. Also my final connectors. There’s no need to change again. 
 

Add Furutech nano liquid once or twice a year. Job done. 

I switched out the Wattgate EVOs for the Furutechs FI-46 NCF (G) and I am quite happy with  these on their FP-S55N bulk wire. I perceive a more relaxed 'free flow' to the  music and a robust detailed extended low end! Lovely.

[vhs]

17 hours ago, JayM said:

I have high hopes that I will be able to share some drawings or 'renders' of the DIY chassis with everyone on this forum tomorrow when I'm back at the office.

Thx Jay

[Exocer]

22 hours ago, JayM said:

 

So, hello everyone, I am Jay! ;)

Nice to meet you Jay! Welcome.

[JayM]

21 hours ago, magnium said:

Welcome @JayM

 

For those who pre-order the Taiko DC DC-ATX and interested in the Taiko DIY case, is there a possibility of consolidating the orders to save shipping costs?

 

Hard to say if I will order the case without knowing the design and cost but just throwing it out there!

 

As I promised yesterday, here are some pictures to give an indication how the DIY chassis will look.

The external size of the chassis is 483mm wide, 496 mm long and 177 mm high (including the feet).

The internal size of the chassis is 416mm wide, 483 mm long and 150 mm high.

The whole chassis will be CNC-machined out of high grade aluminium.

We still have to add the recess for IEC on the back plate, the rest of the chassis is pretty veracious to the final product.

The chassis will come in black, this will be the exact same colour as the black version of SGM Extreme servers, unfortunately other colours are not an option so far. 

 

We hope to send the definite plans into production somewhere near the end of next week.

 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, JayM said:

 

As I promised yesterday, here are some pictures to give an indication how the DIY chassis will look.

The external size of the chassis is 483mm wide, 496 mm long and 177 mm high (including the feet).

The internal size of the chassis is 416mm wide, 483 mm long and 150 mm high.

The whole chassis will be CNC-machined out of high grade aluminium.

We still have to add the recess for IEC on the back plate, the rest of the chassis is pretty veracious to the final product.

The chassis will come in black, this will be the exact same colour as the black version of SGM Extreme servers, unfortunately other colours are not an option so far. 

 

We hope to send the definite plans into production somewhere near the end of next week.

 

 

 

Thanks for the information. Do you have information;

 

- passive CPU cooling capabilities? What is TDP rating?
- Will CPU heatsink & heat pipes be included? 
- will it be compatible with other motherboards & CPU? 

- would also be good to see a render of full size motherboard & atx inside the case. 
 

Thanks

[JayM]

2 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Thanks for the information. Do you have information;

 

- passive CPU cooling capabilities? What is TDP rating?
- Will CPU heatsink & heat pipes be included? 
- will it be compatible with other motherboards & CPU? 

- would also be good to see a render of full size motherboard & atx inside the case. 
 

Thanks

 

Yes, the chassis will be set-up for passive CPU cooling, the TDP rating will be 2 x 85W at normal usage

Yes, CPU heatsinks and heat pipes will be included but only for the LGA3647 square.

Yes, it is compatible with motherboards mini ITX up to SSI EEB and all compatible CPU's under 2 x 85W at normal usage.

 

Unfortunately we are not be able to provide a render of the chassis with a full size motherboard & ATX as of now. When we receive our prototype chassis we might be able to provide some pictures with a full size motherboard & ATX in the case during test fitting.

 

Hopefully that answers everything!

 

[Nenon]

I've had quite a few requests to build computers for other people over time that I had to turn down due to my affiliation with Sean Jacobs, or lack of time, or simply not having enough interest in the particular build. But I have always been trying to help as much as I can. 

 

@dminches reached out for help some time ago. He has a pretty impressive analog rig. The complaint was that his digital system could never sound like his analog. He had a Lampizator Pacific DAC, which is certainly not the bottleneck. We started improving his digital source piece by piece. After trying some of the things I suggested to him (trying Euphony, Optane drive, PinkFaun USB card with OCXO clock, etc.) he realised the potential, although he was very sceptical that digital could ever sound as good as his analog rig. I told him that the only way he could cross to the next level is to fix the power supply feeding his computer. We got Sean Jacobs involved and designed a linear power supply for @dminches. I built the custom DC4 power supply for him, and this is a picture I found from the building process:

(by the quality of this photo, I can tell it was taken with my phone that was a couple of generations old)

 

It's a massive linear power supply, built as a cost no object project, that can make almost any server sing. After changing the mediocre LPS he was using, he was quite impressed. Two-three months later (that's how long it takes for the LPS to burn-in) I started receiving messages from him how this power supply was a game changer. The long story short, @dminches for the first time started enjoying his digital almost as much as his analog. However the keyword here is "almost". He told me that his digital was almost as good as his analog, but his reel to reel is still better. He said he does not expect the digital to ever be as good as the R2R, but he is enjoying digital a lot now. 

 

We talked more about this, and I told him if he wants to go to the next step, he needs to buy a Taiko Extreme. He asked me if the Taiko Extreme would be better than his DIY server, and my answer was a definite "YES". A few more months passed, and he pulled the trigger on a Taiko Extreme. He wasn't very impressed at the beginning, but that's normal as it needs some burn-in time. It kept getting better and better over time. He got TAS and recently added the Taiko USB card. It was the Taiko USB card that made a big difference (and the burn-in period I am sure), and he decided to keep the Extreme. 

 

His DIY server and DC4 have been listed for sale now:

 

@dminches sent me a 1 bit DSD transfer from his reel to reel yesterday. It was a direct recording from the safety mastertape. I was blown away by how this DSD file sounded! No wonder he thinks his analog still sounds better. It's the way the music was recorded and mastered! Not the noisy hissy magnetic tape. His DSD tape transfer can put many modern digital recordings to shame. I really enjoy the DSD file played through my digital system. It puts many of my vinyls to shame as well. 

So I told @dminches I will post this only if he transfers another album of my choice from reel to reel to DSD! There you go @dminches - now waiting for that DSD file...  Just kidding :). I did not tell him that... But I still expect that DSD file :). 

 

The real reason I am posting this is not to advertise his classified but to add perspective to some of the things we have discussed and give a real world example of how some of the DIY servers we are building compare to the top commercial products. I thought it would be interesting for people to read.

 

The power supply that I built for @dminches was the game changer for him. I had a similar power supply powering my dual CPU server before switching to the Taiko ATX. And here is the truth about linear power supplies: they work amazingly good for low current applications. But when you get to high current draws like the dual Xeon CPUs in the Extreme, regulated LPS is not the best technology to use. I would use and recommend the Taiko ATX with the unregulated LPS for the dual CPU project. In fact I would put this against any regulated LPS, no matter the price, including the high current DC4 I built for @dminches. I compared the two in my system and had a hard time deciding. But the Taiko ATX + unregulated LPS for the dual Xeon project sounded more transparent.  And that is an important part of voicing the server. 

 

For lower current CPUs, we need to test what works better. I am guessing a good regulated LPS would have advantages there. And I certainly prefer a regulated LPS on my USB / network card, network devices, DACs, etc. 

 

[Marcin_gps]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

I've had quite a few requests to build computers for other people over time that I had to turn down due to my affiliation with Sean Jacobs, or lack of time, or simply not having enough interest in the particular build. But I have always been trying to help as much as I can. 

 

@dminches reached out for help some time ago. He has a pretty impressive analog rig. The complaint was that his digital system could never sound like his analog. He had a Lampizator Pacific DAC, which is certainly not the bottleneck. We started improving his digital source piece by piece. After trying some of the things I suggested to him (trying Euphony, Optane drive, PinkFaun USB card with OCXO clock, etc.) he realised the potential, although he was very sceptical that digital could ever sound as good as his analog rig. I told him that the only way he could cross to the next level is to fix the power supply feeding his computer. We got Sean Jacobs involved and designed a linear power supply for @dminches. I built the custom DC4 power supply for him, and this is a picture I found from the building process:

(by the quality of this photo, I can tell it was taken with my phone that was a couple of generations old)

 

It's a massive linear power supply, built as a cost no object project, that can make almost any server sing. After changing the mediocre LPS he was using, he was quite impressed. Two-three months later (that's how long it takes for the LPS to burn-in) I started receiving messages from him how this power supply was a game changer. The long story short, @dminches for the first time started enjoying his digital almost as much as his analog. However the keyword here is "almost". He told me that his digital was almost as good as his analog, but his reel to reel is still better. He said he does not expect the digital to ever be as good as the R2R, but he is enjoying digital a lot now. 

 

We talked more about this, and I told him if he wants to go to the next step, he needs to buy a Taiko Extreme. He asked me if the Taiko Extreme would be better than his DIY server, and my answer was a definite "YES". A few more months passed, and he pulled the trigger on a Taiko Extreme. He wasn't very impressed at the beginning, but that's normal as it needs some burn-in time. It kept getting better and better over time. He got TAS and recently added the Taiko USB card. It was the Taiko USB card that made a big difference (and the burn-in period I am sure), and he decided to keep the Extreme. 

 

His DIY server and DC4 have been listed for sale now:

 

@dminches sent me a 1 bit DSD transfer from his reel to reel yesterday. It was a direct recording from the safety mastertape. I was blown away by how this DSD file sounded! No wonder he thinks his analog still sounds better. It's the way the music was recorded and mastered! Not the noisy hissy magnetic tape. His DSD tape transfer can put many modern digital recordings to shame. I really enjoy the DSD file played through my digital system. It puts many of my vinyls to shame as well. 

So I told @dminches I will post this only if he transfers another album of my choice from reel to reel to DSD! There you go @dminches - now waiting for that DSD file...  Just kidding :). I did not tell him that... But I still expect that DSD file :). 

 

The real reason I am posting this is not to advertise his classified but to add perspective to some of the things we have discussed and give a real world example of how some of the DIY servers we are building compare to the top commercial products. I thought it would be interesting for people to read.

 

The power supply that I built for @dminches was the game changer for him. I had a similar power supply powering my dual CPU server before switching to the Taiko ATX. And here is the truth about linear power supplies: they work amazingly good for low current applications. But when you get to high current draws like the dual Xeon CPUs in the Extreme, regulated LPS is not the best technology to use. I would use and recommend the Taiko ATX with the unregulated LPS for the dual CPU project. In fact I would put this against any regulated LPS, no matter the price, including the high current DC4 I built for @dminches. I compared the two in my system and had a hard time deciding. But the Taiko ATX + unregulated LPS for the dual Xeon project sounded more transparent.  And that is an important part of voicing the server. 

 

For lower current CPUs, we need to test what works better. I am guessing a good regulated LPS would have advantages there. And I certainly prefer a regulated LPS on my USB / network card, network devices, DACs, etc. 

 

@Nenonchallenge accepted!

 

There is no way ANY switching power supply can compete with a truly linear PSU

[Exocer]

39 minutes ago, Nenon said:

The real reason I am posting this is not to advertise his classified but to add perspective to some of the things we have discussed and give a real world example of how some of the DIY servers we are building compare to the top commercial products. I thought it would be interesting for people to read.

 

One of the many interesting takeaways from this is it was TAS and the USB card that the difference became so pronounced, justifying the sale of the DIY build. The importance of software and hardware integration is well stated here.

 

I wonder what the Taiko DC-ATX would have done for the DIY build, as it is absolutely a stunning game changer for me in my humble rig. (The change for me may be so drastic because I do not externally power my USB/NIC cards.)

 

@dminches- good luck on your sale and congratulations to the lucky buyer!

 

@Nenon - Thank you for the write up. Have you had a chance yet to listen to any of the larger more recent Paul Hynes builds in your system? (PHSR7T) I am inclined to believe it performs well but have no other LPSUs available for comparison.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

@Nenon thanks for the post.
 

What this tells me is - Please don’t buy the Extreme (as mentioned on WBF) otherwise the gap between diy & others will increase. Having such an avid diyer on this forum is so valuable. Just look what’s happened with other users here who have bought the extreme. Now none existent, or much less contribution than before. I do understand why. I’m not complaining so get me wrong. 
 

You bring so much to this forum, especially users who learn & spend money because of your work. As a result of your hobby (expensive hobby) you make money for this site. You should maybe ask for a contribution from site owners to keep your diying going!!! 
 

As I said above please don’t be tempted by taking easy route! 
 

Cheers

[ASRMichael]

5 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenonchallenge accepted!

 

There is no way ANY switching power supply can compete with a truly linear PSU

Buy one & try it then!!! That’s what many of us here are planning! 

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, JayM said:

 

Yes, the chassis will be set-up for passive CPU cooling, the TDP rating will be 2 x 85W at normal usage

Yes, CPU heatsinks and heat pipes will be included but only for the LGA3647 square.

Yes, it is compatible with motherboards mini ITX up to SSI EEB and all compatible CPU's under 2 x 85W at normal usage.

 

Unfortunately we are not be able to provide a render of the chassis with a full size motherboard & ATX as of now. When we receive our prototype chassis we might be able to provide some pictures with a full size motherboard & ATX in the case during test fitting.

 

Hopefully that answers everything!

 

Thanks can you just clarify; So the case is compatible with other motherboards & CPU’s but the Taiko cpu heatsink & heat pipes are not? 

 

Yes, CPU heatsinks and heat pipes will be included but only for the LGA3647 square.

[Exocer]

20 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenonchallenge accepted!

 

There is no way ANY switching power supply can compete with a truly linear PSU

Would love to be a fly on the wall during the listening sessions! (if they ever do come to fruition).

 

Can we please make this happen? :)

[matthias]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

But when you get to high current draws like the dual Xeon CPUs in the Extreme, regulated LPS is not the best technology to use. I would use and recommend the Taiko ATX with the unregulated LPS for the dual CPU project. In fact I would put this against any regulated LPS, no matter the price, including the high current DC4 I built for @dminches. I compared the two in my system and had a hard time deciding. But the Taiko ATX + unregulated LPS for the dual Xeon project sounded more transparent.  And that is an important part of voicing the server. 

 

Nenon,

I do not disagree, but AFAIK the PS in the Extreme is a regulated LPS as well.

So will Emile change to an UHQ version of the Taiko ATX for the Extreme?

Thanks

 

Matt

[Marcin_gps]

46 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Would love to be a fly on the wall during the listening sessions! (if they ever do come to fruition).

 

Can we please make this happen? :)

TAIKO DC-ATX + ... ? vs OPTIMO ATX?

[Exocer]

23 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

TAIKO DC-ATX + ... ? vs OPTIMO ATX?

Ideally:

 

Taiko DC-ATX + DC4 vs Optimo ATX

Taiko DC-ATX + PHSR7T vs Optimo ATX

Taiko DC-ATX + Nenon's Unregulated Linear Power Supply vs Optimo ATX

 

I have the Taiko DC-ATX in hand and will try the with19v 10A rated rail of my SR7T soon to power my i9 server (not sure if it can handle the load but still worth a shot, as I do not overclock).

 

Edit: @Nenon that PSU is a work of art. Well done.

[RickyV]

18 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

TAIKO DC-ATX + ... ? vs OPTIMO ATX?

whats the price of the optimo atx?

[magnium]

6 hours ago, JayM said:

 

The external size of the chassis is 483mm wide, 496 mm long and 177 mm high (including the feet).

 

Takes out measuring tape.  Hmm, exactly the same width as my AV rackmount which means I can’t easily fit it in.

Maybe if I can add notches on to top and bottom plate if there is enough spacing between the heatsink fins ...

 

Any advice on cutting tools for thick aluminum? 😇

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

4 minutes ago, RickyV said:

whats the price of the optimo atx?

Will be announced during the launch with all the details and pictures in the final enclosure. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

[Dev]

15 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Will be announced during the launch with all the details and pictures in the final enclosure. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

 

@Marcin_gpswhat are the specs ? what kind of servers are you using to test this currently ? I am curious if you have plans to test with high power cpu with turbo boost, like an i9 K version ? 

[Marcin_gps]

1 minute ago, Dev said:

 

@Marcin_gpswhat are the specs ? what kind of servers are you using to test this currently ? I am curious if you have plans to test with high power cpu with turbo boost, like an i9 K version ? 

Please check 4 last posts on JCAT blog for more details: https://jcat.eu/editorial/

 

According to intel specification, max supported CPU TDP is 95W. Please see the table below: