Building a DIY Music Server

[Energy]

The lower phase ITX could have performed better due to not using doublers and or parallel connections. Often times when there are too many that are not in use, the PWM Controller (voltage regulator) turns off some of them. Which lanes open/close at times could be at random similarly to how CPU cores work. What is available happens at varied intervals. The MOSFET's that are sitting further away from the controller could be the ones that are in use. It may not look like a long distance to us but there is a latency lag when gates open and close. Along the path there are different traces the signal must travel through, each attributing to crosstalk and a potential capacitance created between them. The Aorus I mentioned features the newer server grade PCB weaving for less signal loss. The 6 or 8 layers PCB (depending on model) improves crosstalk since these traces no longer have to inter-lap one another so closely. The 2X copper increases signal fidelity and improves thermal dissipation. In the newer X570 designs there is also an impedance improvement for the traces that go from the CPU to the PCI-E and M.2 slots. This benefits the add-on cards and Intel Optane storage. All that I labeled could be a potential link to why those transient attacks and timing quality didn't meet your expectations. Other reasons not yet listed could be difference in inductor value (higher is better), capacitor value, trace/signal arrangement, or natural noise created by the voltage regulator. There are probably even more that are outside of my area of expertise (I'm an audio mixing/mastering engineer).

 

The feedback you received from the linked post, I would say that I agree with everything the writer says.

First I would recommend starting with a clean linear power supply, then pick out a motherboard that has a capable VRM with the benefits posed above, then everything else from add-on card to CPU to Industrial/ECC RAM are of smaller importance. The same can be said for the endpoint. The only time the CPU is as important as the motherboard or clean power is when you are deciding how that CPU will function. For example, If you need it to do heavy DSD upsampling then the motherboard VRM is vital and the linear PSU has to be able to supply the large amount of current required. These three components affect one another which is why they are of similar importance. If the device you are building is an endpoint then the CPU is less important than the motherboard while clean power is more important than both. Although the unit will perform better with more CPU cores even at a lighter workload, the motherboard is more important because of the VRM's, board layout, possibility of handling ECC RAM,  slots availability for add-on cards, and it's functionality plays a bigger role. Lastly clean power triumphs both. This last mention can be seen by those who have upgraded their power supplies for their endpoints and have found it to be a drastic change. In short, a CPU just processes information, the motherboard should be more important since it is the technical grid but most motherboards are made pretty similarly nowadays whereas clean power supplies are not, especially for audiophile. This is why the priority is set this way.

 

For power I do not recommend SMPS's aka conventional power supplies (AX1600i, SuperFlower). Although they are good, they are only good for the average consumer. Their quality is comparable to high quality Seasonic which have under 20mV (20,000uV) of ripple noise, but compared to an HDPlex 400W (3mV), it is 17mV higher. A Paul Hynes have noise in the single digit uV's (probably). It's a big difference. So when it comes to endpoint power, purchasable brands like Paul Hynes, Sean Jacobs, Farad is probably is good as you'll get. There may be some just as good out there waiting to be discovered, but just without a reputation worthy enough for any of us to take a risk. One thing worth mentioning is although Paul Hynes SR7 can do 12A at 12V, it may still be a little low for a music server that wishes to use some of the higher filters and modulators that is provided on HQPlayer, as doing so will require a CPU with a higher TDP. These TDP numbers also lie since my 105TDP CPU actually does 150W during full throttle so if 14A is cutting it close for me then 12A might be a little under but that heavily depends on what CPU you are using. I remember running Poly-Sinc-XTR-LP with ASDM7EC at DSD256 with an Intel i7-9700K before which is also rated 95W but I never measured how much it consumed before switching over to AMD for ECC compatibility.

 

There are not a lot of build-able linear power supplies other than using Belleson or Sean Jacobs (albeit having to get familiar with current boosters). I went with the more simpler path. For a computer, 3.3V, 5V, and 12V voltages are required. With the Belleson I am able to achieve the following:

- Belleson SPHP 12V (14A)

- Belleson SPX 5.0V (7.2A)

- Belleson SPX 3.3V (10.91A)

 

The reason for SPX is that it has less noise and lower impedance than the SPHP but cannot handle as much current. Since the lower voltage rails are not as important, this drops the price of voltage regulator down while offering better performance (-$20). On a side note, Belleson has not tested their SPHP to perform over 10A, but given their datasheet if you provide it with a 5V headroom, meaning the transformer that supplies voltage to the regulator is at least 5V higher, it can potentially do 14A. This much amps at 12V is 168W. The 3900X I use on my music server draws 150W at full 100% load, but during DSD upsampling it is only around 90W. The idea of having the Belleson be able to handle that high of a current is for the sake of headroom. You never want to run a power supply at full throttle.

 

The standard orientation of the build:

IEC > Transformer > Rectifier Bridge > Filtering Capacitors> Belleson SPHP/SPX > DC Output

 

For my more advanced build: (Balanced, Pi FIlter, Dual Regulation)

IEC > Balanced Transformer > Rectifier Diode > 700,000uF Pi Filter > Belleson SPX > Belleson SPX > DC Output

 

Hopefully that was all understandable.

 

[Gavin1977]

@Energy Great post, you've earned your title of Audio Sophomaniac 🙂

 

Wished I'd crossed paths with you earlier when I was doing my VRM & power supply experiments.  Due to my lack of success I'd then given up on the idea of being able to design something which betters the NUC/SR7 combo.  The information you've shared makes me think your ideas are very promising!

 

As you say, power supply is key - I am happy building using off the shelf modules and can also stuff and solder through hole PCB's, but no way I could design from scratch.   Are you able to flesh out your proposed build / products /designs being used for the power?

[Energy]

lol thanks for the compliment. I thought I'd use the word to be a little more sarcastic. 😄

 

The NUC7i7 with SR7 you have is already beyond good. I had the ASROCK iBOX-V1000 and although it did sound 7% or so better, it wasn't a significant jump. It mainly came from ECC, faster CPU/GPU, and 12V DC input hence less DC-DC conversion. There's not many places you can jump to right now unless you built your own endpoint as you would similarly to a server. But since I haven't exactly finished the build I cannot say if it sounds any better then the NUC method yet.. It could be worse. I first plan to boot it without any add-on cards to make it an even comparison. Seeing if the faster CPU makes a difference than the lower core count one. From there would I start adding in the JCAT's NET and USB card's one by one. In this hobby that consumes a plethora of money, the only way to make these purchases worthwhile is to confirm that it isn't placebo. The only way to do that is A/B each change one by one. A time consuming process.. 😔

 

I'm building another linear PSU of similar quality for the endpoint so I'll most likely create a public thread on how other people can build themselves one as well. It will be comprised of many different levels and options. Those who want to spend more to get more noise reduction can increase capacitance, inductance (for pi filter), boutique parts (iec, fuse, diodes, transformer, capacitor, connectors, wires, etc), or add another voltage regulator for dual regulation. I will break down the science on why each part is used for each area of the build and why it is superior. I'll also be introducing a new method of grounding that people on here hasn't used yet called Hybrid Grounding along with an infusion of John Swensen Shielding Guideline added to the mix that I call Hybrid Grounding JSSG 360°+. It utilizes a 3-Pin XLR connector as the DC connector. High frequency noise that is picked up by the shield is discharged to the shell of the connector. It's a slightly more advanced method of JSSG but can only be applied with a certain connector. 

 

Last but not least, I will share a personal compendium that details every thought out part of an audiophile system. Even from the minute the power cable leaves the circuit breaker to upon it's arrival at the audio room and how things should be optimally connected. To give some examples...why star grounding copper rods spaced 20FT away is recommended, why 3-phase power circuit breakers are worthwhile, why using a 8-10AWG magnet wire pushed through PTFE tubing and twisted tightly counterclockwise as a powerline cable is better than Romex, how to properly use a ferrite core for audio by picking out the right mix to block high frequency EMI, how to improve a ferrite core by cutting a gap into it to reduce saturation, utilizing MuMetal sheet or iron foil to redirect an isolation transformers magnetic field, how to build a music server and power supply, or which boutique part really matters. The list goes on... I only named like a few out of 100. There will be a table of contents that will explain it all. I plan to put it on a PDF.

[Gavin1977]

Wow - sign me up.  Looking forward to further posts.

[Nenon]

9 hours ago, Energy said:

I'm building another linear PSU of similar quality for the endpoint so I'll most likely create a public thread on how other people can build themselves one as well. It will be comprised of many different levels and options. Those who want to spend more to get more noise reduction can increase capacitance, inductance (for pi filter), boutique parts (iec, fuse, diodes, transformer, capacitor, connectors, wires, etc), or add another voltage regulator for dual regulation. I will break down the science on why each part is used for each area of the build and why it is superior. I'll also be introducing a new method of grounding that people on here hasn't used yet called Hybrid Grounding along with an infusion of John Swensen Shielding Guideline added to the mix that I call Hybrid Grounding JSSG 360°+. It utilizes a 3-Pin XLR connector as the DC connector. High frequency noise that is picked up by the shield is discharged to the shell of the connector. It's a slightly more advanced method of JSSG but can only be applied with a certain connector. 

 

Last but not least, I will share a personal compendium that details every thought out part of an audiophile system. Even from the minute the power cable leaves the circuit breaker to upon it's arrival at the audio room and how things should be optimally connected. To give some examples...why star grounding copper rods spaced 20FT away is recommended, why 3-phase power circuit breakers are worthwhile, why using a 8-10AWG magnet wire pushed through PTFE tubing and twisted tightly counterclockwise as a powerline cable is better than Romex, how to properly use a ferrite core for audio by picking out the right mix to block high frequency EMI, how to improve a ferrite core by cutting a gap into it to reduce saturation, utilizing MuMetal sheet or iron foil to redirect an isolation transformers magnetic field, how to build a music server and power supply, or which boutique part really matters. The list goes on... I only named like a few out of 100. There will be a table of contents that will explain it all. I plan to put it on a PDF.

 

Looking forward to that! 

By the way, you guys feel free to use this thread for any DIY hints - power supplies, server builds, etc.

 

I am also working on a whole bunch of new experiments that I will share soon. I have been silent for a while, but some good things are cooking that take long time! 

 

Stay safe, everyone! 

[beautiful music]

9 hours ago, Energy said:

lol thanks for the compliment. I thought I'd use the word to be a little more sarcastic. 😄

 

The NUC7i7 with SR7 you have is already beyond good. I had the ASROCK iBOX-V1000 and although it did sound 7% or so better, it wasn't a significant jump. It mainly came from ECC, faster CPU/GPU, and 12V DC input hence less DC-DC conversion. There's not many places you can jump to right now unless you built your own endpoint as you would similarly to a server. But since I haven't exactly finished the build I cannot say if it sounds any better then the NUC method yet.. It could be worse. I first plan to boot it without any add-on cards to make it an even comparison. Seeing if the faster CPU makes a difference than the lower core count one. From there would I start adding in the JCAT's NET and USB card's one by one. In this hobby that consumes a plethora of money, the only way to make these purchases worthwhile is to confirm that it isn't placebo. The only way to do that is A/B each change one by one. A time consuming process.. 😔

 

I'm building another linear PSU of similar quality for the endpoint so I'll most likely create a public thread on how other people can build themselves one as well. It will be comprised of many different levels and options. Those who want to spend more to get more noise reduction can increase capacitance, inductance (for pi filter), boutique parts (iec, fuse, diodes, transformer, capacitor, connectors, wires, etc), or add another voltage regulator for dual regulation. I will break down the science on why each part is used for each area of the build and why it is superior. I'll also be introducing a new method of grounding that people on here hasn't used yet called Hybrid Grounding along with an infusion of John Swensen Shielding Guideline added to the mix that I call Hybrid Grounding JSSG 360°+. It utilizes a 3-Pin XLR connector as the DC connector. High frequency noise that is picked up by the shield is discharged to the shell of the connector. It's a slightly more advanced method of JSSG but can only be applied with a certain connector. 

 

Last but not least, I will share a personal compendium that details every thought out part of an audiophile system. Even from the minute the power cable leaves the circuit breaker to upon it's arrival at the audio room and how things should be optimally connected. To give some examples...why star grounding copper rods spaced 20FT away is recommended, why 3-phase power circuit breakers are worthwhile, why using a 8-10AWG magnet wire pushed through PTFE tubing and twisted tightly counterclockwise as a powerline cable is better than Romex, how to properly use a ferrite core for audio by picking out the right mix to block high frequency EMI, how to improve a ferrite core by cutting a gap into it to reduce saturation, utilizing MuMetal sheet or iron foil to redirect an isolation transformers magnetic field, how to build a music server and power supply, or which boutique part really matters. The list goes on... I only named like a few out of 100. There will be a table of contents that will explain it all. I plan to put it on a PDF.

 

Thanks for sharing this invaluable information.

 

And looking expectantly to your new build.

 

Also I would like to thank @Nenon for his contributions on this hobby as well.

[dctom]

My server build continues with the addition of 16Gb Apacer Dimm (thanks Nenon) . I have also installed a 2Tb NVMe PCIe M.2 drive for music storage. Using this for playback instead of my NAS drive has produced another improvement in sound quality, more natural, slightly better dynamics, impact and excitement. I expect this to be more pronounced when I am able to power the server with a PH SR7 12v+19v. However a very welcome advantage with using the M2 for storage is that I am able to load my 24k track list into the HQplayer playlist in 30 seconds and scan the entire library in a similar time.

[jabbr]

Xeon W-2245

C422 MB

RTX 2080 PCIe 3.0 x16

Mellanox ConnectX-5 100Gbe w 
  100GBase-LR4 QSFP28

NVME boot

32 Gb RDIMM 3200

Ubuntu 18.04

HQPE

AC power cable

[beautiful music]

@Nenon any news of your new build!!!

Also what about the new jCat USB XE card?

[Dev]

Has anyone able to find good quality micro-ATX motherboard with 2 PCIe slots, with at least one slot being CPU direct ?

[dminches]

4 minutes ago, Dev said:

Has anyone able to find good quality micro-ATX motherboard with 2 PCIe slots, with at least one slot being CPU direct ?

 

Supermicro X11SCH-F

 

[Dev]

14 minutes ago, dminches said:

 

Supermicro X11SCH-F

 

 

Yeah, I have looked at that motherboard. can you confirm that a i9-9900K or a KF will work ? It doesn't seem to support 300 series 1151 socket. Also, this motherboard will need a thermal riser if installing on Streacom but not a issue. 

[dminches]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

 

Yeah, I have looked at that motherboard. can you confirm that a i9-9900K or a KF will work ? It doesn't seem to support 300 series 1151 socket. Also, this motherboard will need a thermal riser if installing on Streacom but not a issue. 

I don’t know all the CPUs it supports.  I am using a Xeon CPU.  And, yes, it requires a riser but that part is easy.

 

I would email their support to ask about the CPUs.

 

[Dev]

2 hours ago, dminches said:

I don’t know all the CPUs it supports.  I am using a Xeon CPU.  And, yes, it requires a riser but that part is easy.

 

I would email their support to ask about the CPUs.

 

 

which Xeon are you using ?

[dminches]

40 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

which Xeon are you using ?

 

Intel Xeon E-2124G

 

I am only running Roon server and not HQ Player so I don’t need a ton of processing power.

 

[Nenon]

On 4/13/2020 at 9:30 AM, beautiful music said:

@Nenon any news of your new build!!!

Also what about the new jCat USB XE card?

 

My new build is:

- ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero full size ATX motherboard 

- AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU

- Apacer ECC RAM

- Upgraded motherboard clock with PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock

- The new JCAT XE USB card

- JCAT NET Femto card

- PinkFaun I2S Bridge with ultraOCXO clock

- Optane card for the OS

- HDPlex H5 Case

- HDPlex 800W DC to DC ATX Convertor

- Gaia feet

- Mundorf Silver Gold DC wire all around

- Euphony OS

 

 

I made that carbon fiber plate with two connectors that I quite like. One connector goes to the CPU / EPS and the other to the HDPlex.

 

On the other side I just drilled a hole on the plate and installed a connector to power the OCXO clock. I will be adding a grounding post this weekend as well. 

 

And of course vibration isolation with Gaia feet:

 

 

There were three big questions I wanted to answer with this build.

On 2/5/2020 at 4:55 PM, Nenon said:

The three BIG questions I would like answers for are:

1. Does this big full size ATX motherboard sound better than its smaller sibling I am currently using in their stock versions?

2. How much better Qobuz would sound (if it sounds better) when my JCAT NET Femto NIC is on a regular PCIe slot with no extension cables?

3. Last, but not least, what would be the effects of changing the motherboard clocks with high quality OCXO clocks? That's the part I am most curious about as it's something I have never done before. If time allows, I may even document the clock changing process here, but I am not promising.

 

I will be honest with you and tell you upfront that I did not spend enough time to apply the typical systematic approach of testing. Here is why - I am doing this as a hobby and when I hear that something I did convincingly sounds better, I am not interested to go back and forth and study how much better it sounds. I wish I spent a little more time with each small change, but I had too many thing going on. 

 

Let's start with the motherboard. Does it sound better than the mini-ITX motherboard? Yes, it does. But I don't think we should make the conclusion that every full size ATX motherboard sounds better than its mini-ITX sibling. That's not true, and I have seen the opposite. But this particular ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero sounds a little better than the ASUS ROG Strix X470-I Gaming mini-ITX motherboard. Not much better, just a little. 

 

After adding the PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock, this motherboard sounded much better than the mini-ITX model. Not all OCXO clock upgrades are up to my taste. They all seem to help with details, but some of them make the sound too sterile, too clinical, even lean in some cases. That's kind of what I expected by replacing this motherboard clock. But my expectations were wrong, and I was pleasantly surprised. The effect was quite different than what I thought. The first thing I noticed was a lot of air between the instruments. There was also more layers, more depth, and the bass became tighter and more real. It was immediately noticeable, but after a week I decided to go back to the stock motherboard clock just to double check. I did not listen for long with the stock clock. It was all confirmed immediately and I switched back to the ultraOCXO clock. Another thing I noticed was that the PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock improved a lot the USB output of the motherboard. Especially the USB ports that are connected to the chipset sounded a lot better with the clock. I think for the first time I actually preferred the USB ports that go through the chipset than the ones that don't. But ultimately I preferred the new JCAT USB XE card. More on that later. One little detail - this clock requires really good and clean power. The cleaner, the better. And good DC wires. My Mundorf silver/gold DC cables came to rescue again. 

 

Having said all that, it's hard for me to answer the second question. 

Quote

How much better Qobuz would sound (if it sounds better) when my JCAT NET Femto NIC is on a regular PCIe slot with no extension cables?

I don't know. It's a different motherboard with ultraOCXO clock. It definitely sounds better, but how much of that has to do with the fact that I did not have to use a PCIe extension cable, and how much was due to the different hardware? I have no idea. 

 

I was also wondering how the passive cooling on the HDPlex H5 chassis compares with the Streacom. I was thinking to install two identical motherboards and run some tests to see how efficient in heat dissipation each case was. Well, I will leave that test to someone else. A lot of IT youtubers out there do those experiments. I just don't have the time. 

But I think it's obvious that the HDPlex H5 passive cooling is much better. Streacom on the left, HDPlex on the right:

 

Streacom has 4 copper pipes. HDPlex has 8 copper pipes. Streacom has a tiny aluminum mounting plate. HDPlex has a massive copper piece with a big aluminum heatsink going on top. Streacom's pipes are flattened and they lose performance this way. HDPlex are not and go inside groves in the heatsink. And the HDPlex heatsinks on the chassis are bigger, at least compared to the Streacom FC9. Plus the HDPlex supports full size ATX motherboard with vertical PCIe cards and no risers.

The only things I hate about the HDPlex is that you need to remove the entire backplate to install PCIe cards. Maybe it's convenient for one card, but try doing 4 PCIe cards at the same time when you also have 3 DC connectors with soldered wires on the plate... not fun! But some people think that's the best thing about this case. I won't repeat the conversation that happened previously in this thread regarding that. Between the two cases, my preference is the HDPlex case now, but that's mainly because of the full size ATX support. The HDPlex has thinner bottom and top covers - that's not good for vibration treatment. 

 

Okay, what's next? JCAT USB XE Card. It's really good and keeps getting better and better over time. I really like it, and it's an easy recommendation. I can't tell how it compares with the PinkFaun USB bridge with ultraOCXO clock, but (besides the PF) I can tell you that it's better than any other USB card I have tried. It would be interesting to do an A/B comparison between the PinkFaun with ultraOCXO and the JCAT card.  

 

Let me touch on CPU choices a little bit. Emile from Taiko has done an extensive research on CPUs and shared some of his results on another forum. My understanding is that he has tried pretty much every CPU he thought might have a chance no matter the price. And interestingly enough he did not like the sound coming out of the AMD CPUs he tried. Romaz also built a computer with an AMD Ryzen 9 that has 105W TDP in a Streacom FC9 chassis. I don't think the Streacom chassis is up to the task to cool down a 105W TDP CPU. At that point you need to start reducing the voltage / speed on the CPU just to keep it cool enough. That in my opinion diminishes the sound quality. And even when my chassis get somewhat hot, I can hear degraded sound. The HDPlex is a better choice, but as far as AMD CPUs go I don't think we can go higher that the 65W TDP of the AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU I am using. 

 

Emile is a genius. We all know that. And it seems like he has resources we can only dream about. But I feel like it's difficult to compare CPUs and have a definitive conclusion about the sound of each CPU. Is it possible that the same CPU sounds very different in his system with his power supply and his choice of motherboard with his tweaked operating system than it sounds in my system with my power supply and my choice of motherboard and completely different operating system? I think the answer to that question is yes. Not only it is very possible, but it's also very likely. I really like the way this new server turned out. It's better than my previous AMD build, which I quite liked. It might be better them my previous Intel builds. It certainly sounds different and probably different people would have different preferences. 

But regardless of that, Emile's test sharing is very useful. Ultimately, there is only one way to find out, so here it is:

 

This is the ASUS WS C621E Sage Extreme motherboard with two Intel XEON SILVER 4210 CPUs that the Taiko Extreme uses inside an HDPlex case. It would be interesting to complete this build and compare with my other builds. Granted, I won't have the million small tweaks Emile has put in the Extreme, but I will apply all the stuff I have learned during my builds. Not trying to reach the Extreme but just to explore another route. I have a custom order Apacer RDIMM RAM coming in several weeks. Between now and then there is a lot of challenges I need to overcome. Don't ask me how I am going to passively cool down those CPUs for example. I don't know. There is no adaptor for the fclga3647 socket in the HDPlex or Streacom kits. I will have to build my own. I have several different Dynatron coolers coming my way as well as various cooling pipes and a pipe bending tool. Ideally, the CPU that is closer to the front of the chassis would be cooled by the left heatsink and the second CPU would be cooled by the right heatsink. That would be a heck of a project. 

[Gavin1977]

@Nenon amazing post - can you show us more about how you undertook the motherboard clock mod?  I would also be interested your thoughts on the impact of the motherboard clock mod, vs say, adding JCAT USB  & NET cards only...

[ASRMichael]

10 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

@Nenon amazing post - can you show us more about how you undertook the motherboard clock mod?  I would also be interested your thoughts on the impact of the motherboard clock mod, vs say, adding JCAT USB  & NET cards only...

 

11 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

My new build is:

- ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero full size ATX motherboard 

- AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU

- Apacer ECC RAM

- Upgraded motherboard clock with PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock

- The new JCAT XE USB card

- JCAT NET Femto card

- PinkFaun I2S Bridge with ultraOCXO clock

- Optane card for the OS

- HDPlex H5 Case

- HDPlex 800W DC to DC ATX Convertor

- Gaia feet

- Mundorf Silver Gold DC wire all around

- Euphony OS

 

 

I made that carbon fiber plate with two connectors that I quite like. One connector goes to the CPU / EPS and the other to the HDPlex.

 

On the other side I just drilled a hole on the plate and installed a connector to power the OCXO clock. I will be adding a grounding post this weekend as well. 

 

And of course vibration isolation with Gaia feet:

 

 

There were three big questions I wanted to answer with this build.

 

I will be honest with you and tell you upfront that I did not spend enough time to apply the typical systematic approach of testing. Here is why - I am doing this as a hobby and when I hear that something I did convincingly sounds better, I am not interested to go back and forth and study how much better it sounds. I wish I spent a little more time with each small change, but I had too many thing going on. 

 

Let's start with the motherboard. Does it sound better than the mini-ITX motherboard? Yes, it does. But I don't think we should make the conclusion that every full size ATX motherboard sounds better than its mini-ITX sibling. That's not true, and I have seen the opposite. But this particular ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero sounds a little better than the ASUS ROG Strix X470-I Gaming mini-ITX motherboard. Not much better, just a little. 

 

After adding the PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock, this motherboard sounded much better than the mini-ITX model. Not all OCXO clock upgrades are up to my taste. They all seem to help with details, but some of them make the sound too sterile, too clinical, even lean in some cases. That's kind of what I expected by replacing this motherboard clock. But my expectations were wrong, and I was pleasantly surprised. The effect was quite different than what I thought. The first thing I noticed was a lot of air between the instruments. There was also more layers, more depth, and the bass became tighter and more real. It was immediately noticeable, but after a week I decided to go back to the stock motherboard clock just to double check. I did not listen for long with the stock clock. It was all confirmed immediately and I switched back to the ultraOCXO clock. Another thing I noticed was that the PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock improved a lot the USB output of the motherboard. Especially the USB ports that are connected to the chipset sounded a lot better with the clock. I think for the first time I actually preferred the USB ports that go through the chipset than the ones that don't. But ultimately I preferred the new JCAT USB XE card. More on that later. One little detail - this clock requires really good and clean power. The cleaner, the better. And good DC wires. My Mundorf silver/gold DC cables came to rescue again. 

 

Having said all that, it's hard for me to answer the second question. 

I don't know. It's a different motherboard with ultraOCXO clock. It definitely sounds better, but how much of that has to do with the fact that I did not have to use a PCIe extension cable, and how much was due to the different hardware? I have no idea. 

 

I was also wondering how the passive cooling on the HDPlex H5 chassis compares with the Streacom. I was thinking to install two identical motherboards and run some tests to see how efficient in heat dissipation each case was. Well, I will leave that test to someone else. A lot of IT youtubers out there do those experiments. I just don't have the time. 

But I think it's obvious that the HDPlex H5 passive cooling is much better. Streacom on the left, HDPlex on the right:

 

Streacom has 4 copper pipes. HDPlex has 8 copper pipes. Streacom has a tiny aluminum mounting plate. HDPlex has a massive copper piece with a big aluminum heatsink going on top. Streacom's pipes are flattened and they lose performance this way. HDPlex are not and go inside groves in the heatsink. And the HDPlex heatsinks on the chassis are bigger, at least compared to the Streacom FC9. Plus the HDPlex supports full size ATX motherboard with vertical PCIe cards and no risers.

The only things I hate about the HDPlex is that you need to remove the entire backplate to install PCIe cards. Maybe it's convenient for one card, but try doing 4 PCIe cards at the same time when you also have 3 DC connectors with soldered wires on the plate... not fun! But some people think that's the best thing about this case. I won't repeat the conversation that happened previously in this thread regarding that. Between the two cases, my preference is the HDPlex case now, but that's mainly because of the full size ATX support. The HDPlex has thinner bottom and top covers - that's not good for vibration treatment. 

 

Okay, what's next? JCAT USB XE Card. It's really good and keeps getting better and better over time. I really like it, and it's an easy recommendation. I can't tell how it compares with the PinkFaun USB bridge with ultraOCXO clock, but (besides the PF) I can tell you that it's better than any other USB card I have tried. It would be interesting to do an A/B comparison between the PinkFaun with ultraOCXO and the JCAT card.  

 

Let me touch on CPU choices a little bit. Emile from Taiko has done an extensive research on CPUs and shared some of his results on another forum. My understanding is that he has tried pretty much every CPU he thought might have a chance no matter the price. And interestingly enough he did not like the sound coming out of the AMD CPUs he tried. Romaz also built a computer with an AMD Ryzen 9 that has 105W TDP in a Streacom FC9 chassis. I don't think the Streacom chassis is up to the task to cool down a 105W TDP CPU. At that point you need to start reducing the voltage / speed on the CPU just to keep it cool enough. That in my opinion diminishes the sound quality. And even when my chassis get somewhat hot, I can hear degraded sound. The HDPlex is a better choice, but as far as AMD CPUs go I don't think we can go higher that the 65W TDP of the AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU I am using. 

 

Emile is a genius. We all know that. And it seems like he has resources we can only dream about. But I feel like it's difficult to compare CPUs and have a definitive conclusion about the sound of each CPU. Is it possible that the same CPU sounds very different in his system with his power supply and his choice of motherboard with his tweaked operating system than it sounds in my system with my power supply and my choice of motherboard and completely different operating system? I think the answer to that question is yes. Not only it is very possible, but it's also very likely. I really like the way this new server turned out. It's better than my previous AMD build, which I quite liked. It might be better them my previous Intel builds. It certainly sounds different and probably different people would have different preferences. 

But regardless of that, Emile's test sharing is very useful. Ultimately, there is only one way to find out, so here it is:

 

This is the ASUS WS C621E Sage Extreme motherboard with two Intel XEON SILVER 4210 CPUs that the Taiko Extreme uses inside an HDPlex case. It would be interesting to complete this build and compare with my other builds. Granted, I won't have the million small tweaks Emile has put in the Extreme, but I will apply all the stuff I have learned during my builds. Not trying to reach the Extreme but just to explore another route. I have a custom order Apacer RDIMM RAM coming in several weeks. Between now and then there is a lot of challenges I need to overcome. Don't ask me how I am going to passively cool down those CPUs for example. I don't know. There is no adaptor for the fclga3647 socket in the HDPlex or Streacom kits. I will have to build my own. I have several different Dynatron coolers coming my way as well as various cooling pipes and a pipe bending tool. Ideally, the CPU that is closer to the front of the chassis would be cooled by the left heatsink and the second CPU would be cooled by the right heatsink. That would be a heck of a project. 

Why the HDPlex 800W DC to DC ATX Convertor? Did you test it against SJ LPS? 

[Nenon]

11 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

@Nenon amazing post - can you show us more about how you undertook the motherboard clock mod?  I would also be interested your thoughts on the impact of the motherboard clock mod, vs say, adding JCAT USB  & NET cards only...

 

The clock I replaced was under this heatsink:

 

Here it is:

 

 

I used my HAKKO FR301-03/P Desoldering Tool to remove the clock:

 

Clock is out:

 

Silver wires in organic unbleached cotton sleeve soldered - WBT silver solder used:

 

Heatsink put back in place:

 

You can mount the clock on the side and use longer wires. But I wanted to use the shortest possible wires. So I made a carbon fiber plate and used 4 standoffs on the four motherboard mounting holes to attach my plate to. I also added the 4 white standoffs to mount the clock:

 

You can see the standoffs if you zoom in on one of the previous photos:

 

Here it is with the clock attached before soldering the wires:

 

Solder the wires and add two more wires for the DC power of the clock (on the right side). The clock takes 5V DC. Installation completed:

 

I may redo the carbon fiber plate and add various holes to increase the airflow to the heatsink that this plate is blocking. But so far heat there has not been a problem. 

 

 

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

Why the HDPlex 800W DC to DC ATX Convertor? Did you test it against SJ LPS? 

I wanted to have a more universal platform, so I can test various power supplies, motherboards, etc. I did not do an A/B comparison, but I know from experience that more rails is better. For the ultimate set up, I would have done 8 rails (3 x ATX, 1 x EPS, 1 x clock, 3 x PCIe cards). But using 6 rails (1 x Hdplex/ATX, 1 x EPS, 1 x clock, 1 x PCIe) sounds pretty good as well. The EPS rail requires a lot of current - I would say 6A+. The HDPlex needs about 30-35 Watts in this configuration, and it can take 16V - 63V. A 22V-1.5A LPS works just fine. I am using 22V-5A LPS, which is an overkill. 

 

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

The clock I replaced was under this heatsink:

 

Here it is:

 

 

I used my HAKKO FR301-03/P Desoldering Tool to remove the clock:

 

Clock is out:

 

Silver wires in organic unbleached cotton sleeve soldered - WBT silver solder used:

 

Heatsink put back in place:

 

You can mount the clock on the side and use longer wires. But I wanted to use the shortest possible wires. So I made a carbon fiber plate and used 4 standoffs on the four motherboard mounting holes to attach my plate to. I also added the 4 white standoffs to mount the clock:

 

Here it is with the clock attached before soldering the wires:

 

Solder the wires and add two more wire for the DC power of the clock (on the right side). The clock takes 5V DC. Installation completed:

 

I may redo the carbon fiber plate and add various holes to increase the airflow to the heatsink that this plate is blocking. But so far heat there has not been a problem. 

 

 

I wanted to have a more universal platform, so I can test various power supplies, motherboards, etc. I did not do an A/B comparison, but I know from experience that more rails is better. For the ultimate set up, I would have done 8 rails (3 x ATX, 1 x EPS, 1 x clock, 3 x PCIe cards). But using 6 rails (1 x Hdplex/ATX, 1 x EPS, 1 x clock, 1 x PCIe) sounds pretty good as well. The EPX rails requires a lot of current - 6A+. The HDPlex needs about 30-35 Watts in this configuration, and it can take 16V - 63V. A 22V-1.5A LPS works just fine. I am using 22V-5A LPS, which is an overkill. 

 

Sorry I had in my head you had a SJ 7 rail LPS. My bad! 
 

Anyway nice build, lots of usual great stuff from you Nenon! I’m sure your builds help so many people out there. 

[Gavin1977]

Very nice Nenon - thanks for the details.  Did you try a listen with just the JCAT cards prior to the motherboard clock install?  Just interested in sound quality improvements vs investment ratio.

[Nenon]

8 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Very nice Nenon - thanks for the details.  Did you try a listen with just the JCAT cards prior to the motherboard clock install?  Just interested in sound quality improvements vs investment ratio.

 

I got the JCAT after the clock upgrade, so no, I did not. In terms of sound quality improvements vs investment ratio I would start by getting the JCAT USB XE card first. And then upgrade the motherboard clock. One does not replace the other; they are additive upgrades. 

[shahed99]

Agree with @Nenon regarding AMD vs Intel sound. I moved from Intel I7 to Ryzen 3950X for my music server. And the SQ improvement was obvious. Compared to Intel, I think the sound is more relax and there's certain ease to the sound I've not experience before on my previous i7 CPU. Having said that, Emilie (on whatsbestforum) mentioned his Intel vs AMD comparison and I agree with him as well. Judging from memory (unreliably), I think AMD might be little leaner sounding compared to Intel, the latter is richer and might have "lower" noise floor. But AMD certainly seemed more dynamic, propulsive and perhaps little bit more nuanced. No idea why - higher core count and much larger cache?

 

This little leaner characteristics works really well for my setup as my Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphene speakers are already warm, rich and inviting. It allows for a nice balancing act. At the end, system matching is important. 

[ted_b]

2 minutes ago, shahed99 said:

At the end, system matching is important. 

+100  All the way to the room and your ears.  That's why this hobby is so interesting, IMHO, as strange bedfellows can, sometimes, really work in one's system...and be another person's impossibility! 

[dminches]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

The HDPlex needs about 30-35 Watts in this configuration, and it can take 16V - 63V. A 22V-1.5A LPS works just fine. I am using 22V-5A LPS, which is an overkill. 

 

 

Since you are only using the HDPlex to power the motherboard, is your 1.5A estimate reduced because you are powering the clock externally or is that only what the motherboard really needs?  I am using a Keces 20V 8A LPS for that purpose.  I guess that is really overkill.