The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[Superdad]

Just now, joelha said:

I realize the Alex says a linear power supply shouldn't make a big difference but then how could I qualify as a card-carrying audiophile if I didn't try?

 

Just now, joelha said:

Is an Sbooster lps a safe option to try with the ER?

Sure Joel. But do have a look at the sections of the EtherREGEN’s User Guide regarding power supplies and grounding.

[joelha]

Thanks for the super-fast reply, Alex.

 

Candidly, I have checked the instructions but didn't trust that I would understand them completely and, as a result, would end up with a burned out ER to show for it.

 

Joel

 

P.S. Truly remarkable product by you and John, by the way.

[gstew]

LOL... if @joelha is a card-carying audiophile, I suspect I'm considered a rabid audiophile!

 

@catman,

 

You're welcome. 

 

I remember reading that report on the double rail SR-7. I also remember @tubelover's (RIP) and others comments on the positive effects of cascaded LT3045 regulator modules.

 

Of course, feeding the MPAudio dual 3||LT3045 modules with LPS-1.2's actually gives you triple regulation... each Ultracap string has an output TPS7A400, followed by a paralleled pair of LT3045 which is then fed into a side of the MPAUdio board. Likely why it has worked well for me.

 

I don't have any experience with MPAudio's L Series. But I suspect that would provide additional benefits, especially with an AC-connected power supply like the HD-PLEX200.

 

AND while it doesn't feature 2 stages of regulation, I've heard very good things about the 'ideal diode bridge' setup as is used in the LSIB-HPULN. That product with a good transformer may be a good, lower cost alternative to the HD-PLEX200 coupled with a DC-input MPAudio board. Because of that, consider trying the HD-PLEX200 / MS-HPULN combo first in each of your applications, then get an LSIB-HPULN to try on the ER. The care Uptone put into the power network may reduce the sensitivity to alternative power.

 

On soldering the precision resistors to make for trouble-free paralleling, I use small SMD resistors because I can. Good .1% leaded resistors should also fit where the pot is on the MPAudio boards and work just as well. Ask if he'll do that for you.

 

On connectors, I use a high-current model aircraft connecter, the Deans Ultra Plug. You can find them at Horizon Hobby, your local hobby shop, OR you can find a Chinese copy at Amazon. I solder them directly on the MPAudio boards input and and output pads... IMHO, the best wire is no wire. 

 

AND if one must use wire, keep it as short as possible. From the LPS-1.2's to the inputs on the MPAUdio boards, I use short (6"-8") output leads fashioned from the Canare 4S6 as described by John Swenson in this thread:

 

On the output side I'm using whatever short Dean to barrel connector leads I have around from other projects. At some point I'll replace them with some good Canare 4S6-based leads.

 

On enclosures, sorry, I don't use no stinking enclosures. Honestly, I generally don't. All of my digital gear is DIY & subject to change. So it all sits out in the open with Kapton tape and heatshrink insulation where needed to prevent accidents. 

 

I used the dual LPS-1.2 / paralleling MPAudio board setups for the ER because they are one of the best setups I have here that I can run at 10V. For my lower-voltage (3.3V-5V) player and DAC supplies I'm going over to directly-connected LiFePO4 (3.3V or multiples only) or Ultracaps (325F-3000F!). With the Ultracaps (that have a much lower overall watt-hour capacity than the LiFePO4 cells) I float-charge them with either LPS-1.2 or good AC-connected linear supplies like the Allo Shanti. These combos are all expert level DIY supplies and I don't recommend them for an inexperienced DIY'er. BUT two commercial products that implement similar setups for a 10V-12V output are the the Cuinas Audio 10V Ultracap supplies or the Farad 10V or 12V supplies. I've read good things about these and would certainly consider them.

 

Finally, I have some other less-expensive DIY options to try... modified Jameco Linear-Regulated wall warts replacing the 2 LPS-1.2 into the dual MPAudio board and a single 6||LT3045 MPAudio boards I can feed from a larger DIY AC-connected supply. Again, because of the sophistication of the ER power network, I wonder if these may work nearly as well as my more expensive dual LPS-1.2 option. I have some time off next week during the US Thanksgiving Day holiday and will try these and report back.

 

Greg in Mississippi

[Jud]

A couple of thoughts regarding power supplies:

 

- As I recall, Alex did not say the ER was immune to power supply changes, he said you’d have a tough time beating the included supply at something close to the price. Remember the included supply has the ground shunt for leakage current.

 

- Therefore, if you want to experiment with power supplies, my thinking is it’s best to do so with something that isn’t worse in terms of leakage current.

 

- @gstew has a setup he believes substantially improves on the included power supply, and it uses supplies that don’t have leakage current. But if I am estimating correctly, that setup is close to or over $1000. So I’d say that qualifies as something not very close in price to the included supply. 🙂

[dminches]

On 11/20/2019 at 11:42 PM, Jud said:

A couple of thoughts regarding power supplies:

 

- As I recall, Alex did not say the ER was immune to power supply changes, he said you’d have a tough time beating the included supply at something close to the price. Remember the included supply has the ground shunt for leakage current.

 

- Therefore, if you want to experiment with power supplies, my thinking is it’s best to do so with something that isn’t worse in terms of leakage current.

 

- @gstew has a setup he believes substantially improves on the included power supply, and it uses supplies that don’t have leakage current. But if I am estimating correctly, that setup is close to or over $1000. So I’d say that qualifies as something not very close in price to the included supply. 🙂

 

Do most power supplies show what their current leakage is?

 

[jos]

I’m a bit unsure about my ER setup. I have on the A-side my NAS, iMac, Apple router & Apple TV connected. The first 3 devices with Supra cat8 and the Apple TV3 with a generic UTP 6a cable. The Apple TV is optical connected to my DAC. I don’t use this device often, just so now and then to watch a movie or photo’s. I assume my Supra cables are ‘shield-tied’, according to the manual. The B-side of the ER is connected with Supra cat8 to my ultraRendu feeding my DAC. But according to the manual this is not a problem. I still have my Netgear GS108 switch at hand.

 

In this situation: do I potentially introduce undesirable leakage current, or not? If so, what should I do? Thanks for any help!

 

[PYP]

1.  Has anyone tried an LPS 1.2 with the eR?  Improved SQ?

 

2.  How about experiments with the brand of ethernet cable going into the A side of the eR?  Make a difference or not?

 

If not, any suggestions for flexible ethernet patch cables?  The usual stuff make routing behind a crowded rack difficult.

 

Thanks.  

[Jud]

3 hours ago, PYP said:

1.  Has anyone tried an LPS 1.2 with the eR?  Improved SQ?

 

2.  How about experiments with the brand of ethernet cable going into the A side of the eR?  Make a difference or not?

 

If not, any suggestions for flexible ethernet patch cables?  The usual stuff make routing behind a crowded rack difficult.

 

Thanks.  

For LPS-1.2, see the original post in this topic.

 

Regarding Ethernet cables, cables that meet spec on the A side should not make a difference. For flexible cables, @lmitche, source of many excellent recommendations, has mentioned these:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Monoprice-SlimRun-Cat6A-Ethernet-Patch/dp/B01BGV2TAA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=monoprice+slimrun+ethernet&qid=1574631738&sr=8-3
 

(They also come in 5-packs and singles, different lengths, and a variety of colors.)

[gstew]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:57 PM, dminches said:

 

Do most power supplies show what their current leakage is?

 

 

Not a single one that I know of. See John Swenson's comments on the various LPS-1/1.2 threads to understand that topic better if you don't already.

 

AND read the monster 'A novel way to massively....' thread and others to see reports on various power supplies that suggest that leakage matters but is not everything.

 

 

On 11/20/2019 at 10:42 PM, Jud said:

A couple of thoughts regarding power supplies:

 

- As I recall, Alex did not say the ER was immune to power supply changes, he said you’d have a tough time beating the included supply at something close to the price. Remember the included supply has the ground shunt for leakage current.

 

- Therefore, if you want to experiment with power supplies, my thinking is it’s best to do so with something that isn’t worse in terms of leakage current.

 

- @gstew has a setup he believes substantially improves on the included power supply, and it uses supplies that don’t have leakage current. But if I am estimating correctly, that setup is close to or over $1000. So I’d say that qualifies as something not very close in price to the included supply. 🙂

 

Jud,

 

You hit the nail on the head. I still need to do some comparisons with much more humble supplies and see how they do.

 

BUT if I can't improve over a $50 or so supply with a roughly $1000 setup, I need to turn in my DIY'er / Tweaker secret decoder ring!

 

Greg in Mississippi

[FileMakerDev]

I just pulled the trigger on one of these (already being a very happy Lush^2 USB owner/enthusiast).

 

https://stordiau.com/collections/cables-and-more-snakes-oil/products/ethist-2-ethernet-cable

 

Will share impressions in due course.

[FileMakerDev]

For what it's worth, I also created a new topic specifically to discuss ET^2 configuration settings.

[thotdoc]

On 11/19/2019 at 12:07 PM, Nenon said:

Emile has tested a bunch of different transceivers with his Taiko Extreme server and reported that he liked the StarTech SFP1000zxst transceivers the most. They are expensive at around $90 a piece, but every now and then they pop up new on eBay for $15-$20 if you are patient. I bought two of them cheap but have not tried them. They work with single mode fiber, so make sure you have compatible cable if you decide to try them.

However, the weird thing is that they are extended range transceiver designed for 80 km distance. Connecting them with a much shorter fiber cable (a few meters rather than 80 km) would have some consequences. For example, the transmit light would be very strong, and it could potentially burn the receiving transceiver module. A workaround to this would be to use light attenuators, but as far as I know Emile, and a few of his customers, don't do that and don't have any issues.

I have access to many different transceivers, including Cisco, Arista, and some third party ones but no desire or time to perform a transceiver shootout. If anyone is really interested and committed to do such thing I might be able to help with some test samples.

I just ordered this. It will be in on Friday. I'll report if it makes a difference. They are at Amazon for $56.00 or so.

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, thotdoc said:

I just ordered this. It will be in on Friday. I'll report if it makes a difference. They are at Amazon for $56.00 or so.

 

The ZX version? I see it as $72 on Amazon... 

[cat6man]

On 11/20/2019 at 11:17 PM, gstew said:

LOL... if @joelha is a card-carying audiophile, I suspect I'm considered a rabid audiophile!

 

@catman,

 

You're welcome. 

 

I remember reading that report on the double rail SR-7. I also remember @tubelover's (RIP) and others comments on the positive effects of cascaded LT3045 regulator modules.

 

Of course, feeding the MPAudio dual 3||LT3045 modules with LPS-1.2's actually gives you triple regulation... each Ultracap string has an output TPS7A400, followed by a paralleled pair of LT3045 which is then fed into a side of the MPAUdio board. Likely why it has worked well for me.

 

I don't have any experience with MPAudio's L Series. But I suspect that would provide additional benefits, especially with an AC-connected power supply like the HD-PLEX200.

 

AND while it doesn't feature 2 stages of regulation, I've heard very good things about the 'ideal diode bridge' setup as is used in the LSIB-HPULN. That product with a good transformer may be a good, lower cost alternative to the HD-PLEX200 coupled with a DC-input MPAudio board. Because of that, consider trying the HD-PLEX200 / MS-HPULN combo first in each of your applications, then get an LSIB-HPULN to try on the ER. The care Uptone put into the power network may reduce the sensitivity to alternative power.

 

On soldering the precision resistors to make for trouble-free paralleling, I use small SMD resistors because I can. Good .1% leaded resistors should also fit where the pot is on the MPAudio boards and work just as well. Ask if he'll do that for you.

 

On connectors, I use a high-current model aircraft connecter, the Deans Ultra Plug. You can find them at Horizon Hobby, your local hobby shop, OR you can find a Chinese copy at Amazon. I solder them directly on the MPAudio boards input and and output pads... IMHO, the best wire is no wire. 

 

AND if one must use wire, keep it as short as possible. From the LPS-1.2's to the inputs on the MPAUdio boards, I use short (6"-8") output leads fashioned from the Canare 4S6 as described by John Swenson in this thread:

 

On the output side I'm using whatever short Dean to barrel connector leads I have around from other projects. At some point I'll replace them with some good Canare 4S6-based leads.

 

On enclosures, sorry, I don't use no stinking enclosures. Honestly, I generally don't. All of my digital gear is DIY & subject to change. So it all sits out in the open with Kapton tape and heatshrink insulation where needed to prevent accidents. 

 

I used the dual LPS-1.2 / paralleling MPAudio board setups for the ER because they are one of the best setups I have here that I can run at 10V. For my lower-voltage (3.3V-5V) player and DAC supplies I'm going over to directly-connected LiFePO4 (3.3V or multiples only) or Ultracaps (325F-3000F!). With the Ultracaps (that have a much lower overall watt-hour capacity than the LiFePO4 cells) I float-charge them with either LPS-1.2 or good AC-connected linear supplies like the Allo Shanti. These combos are all expert level DIY supplies and I don't recommend them for an inexperienced DIY'er. BUT two commercial products that implement similar setups for a 10V-12V output are the the Cuinas Audio 10V Ultracap supplies or the Farad 10V or 12V supplies. I've read good things about these and would certainly consider them.

 

Finally, I have some other less-expensive DIY options to try... modified Jameco Linear-Regulated wall warts replacing the 2 LPS-1.2 into the dual MPAudio board and a single 6||LT3045 MPAudio boards I can feed from a larger DIY AC-connected supply. Again, because of the sophistication of the ER power network, I wonder if these may work nearly as well as my more expensive dual LPS-1.2 option. I have some time off next week during the US Thanksgiving Day holiday and will try these and report back.

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

thanks for the reply and sorry it took me so long to find this thread.............

although i have the forum threads sorted by date of last reply, all the pinned topics appear first and this thread, since it is not pinned, was way down and i only found it today.

 

i've ordered a unit and will post my progress in the future.

 

cheers

[thotdoc]

10 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

The ZX version? I see it as $72 on Amazon... 

StarTech.com 1000BASE-SX SFP Transceiver Module - 1 Gbps - 550 m - TAA Compliant - MSA Compliant Fiber SFP (SFPSXMM)

 

I'm assuming this is the correct one. 

 

If not, let me know.

 

I do not know the implications of ZX vs SX other than distance; which is irrelevant in this case.

 

Also, it seems that better ones at each end would be best. I will try that if I hear any difference at all with one, unless someone knowledgeable says that you need 2-of the better transceivers to make a difference.

[Nenon]

31 minutes ago, thotdoc said:

StarTech.com 1000BASE-SX SFP Transceiver Module - 1 Gbps - 550 m - TAA Compliant - MSA Compliant Fiber SFP (SFPSXMM)

 

I'm assuming this is the correct one. 

 

If not, let me know.

 

I do not know the implications of ZX vs SX other than distance; which is irrelevant in this case.

 

Also, it seems that better ones at each end would be best. I will try that if I hear any difference at all with one, unless someone knowledgeable says that you need 2-of the better transceivers to make a difference.

 

That's a different transceiver. Here is the one Emile recommended - https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-1000BASE-ZX-SFP-Transceiver-Module/dp/B0747WZ8LZ/ 

[Ricardo007]

What is best fiber cable monomode LC that can be used with these Emile recommended Startech modules? Any link? I read there are different qualities / polishing and also the way the fiber glass is terminated

Any link ?

[octaviars]

@Ricardo007 I use this from Corning they are considered to be really good quality. 

 

[Dutch]

If I remember correctly Emile recommends a long fiber (10m or so) for use with those 80km SFPs (because of their high transmit strength). Also his recommendations are for use with the Taiko server but of course it could be a good match here as well.

[Dutch]

Found the relevant posts on the FMCs, SFPs and OS2 fiber cable:

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-607711

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-607694
 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-582269

[FileMakerDev]

So, if I were considering purchasing a Farad Super3 for my EtherRegen (7v-12v), any opinions on which output voltage to choose?

[Ricardo007]

46 minutes ago, Dutch said:

Found the relevant posts on the FMCs, SFPs and OS2 fiber cable:

What is OS2 fiber cable ? 

A link to what to purchase ? 

[Ricardo007]

4 minutes ago, FileMakerDev said:

So, if I were considering purchasing a Farad Super3 for my EtherRegen (7v-12v), any opinions on which output voltage to choose?

The higher the better since less current in ER

[Dutch]

5 minutes ago, Ricardo007 said:

What is OS2 fiber cable ? 

A link to what to purchase ? 

it’s all there in the posts I linked to...

[octaviars]

4 hours ago, Dutch said:

If I remember correctly Emile recommends a long fiber (10m or so) for use with those 80km SFPs (because of their high transmit strength).

 

If you use 1m, 10m or a 100m with a SFP designed for 80km will not make much diffrence in the power that the recieving end will see. You might have something like 0,2-0,5dB/km in attenuation on a single mode fiber. In the long run you might burn out the reciever end but it might work fine it depends on what SFP you use.

 

https://www.fiberoptics4sale.com/blogs/archive-posts/95048006-optical-fiber-loss-and-attenuation

 

Damage by Overpowered Transmitters?

• Well, yes and no.
• Actually, most optics transmit at roughly the same power.
  • The typical outputs of 10km and 80km optics are within 3dB.
• Long reach optics achieve their distances by having more sensitive receivers, not by having stronger transmitters.
  • 80km optics may have a 10dB+ more sensitive receiver than 10km
  • These sensitive receivers are what are in danger of burning out.
• There are two thresholds you need to be concerned with.
  • Saturation point (where the receiver is “blinded”, and takes errors).
  • Damage point (where the receiver is actually damaged).
  • The actual values depend on the specific optic.
  • But generally speaking, only 80km+ optics are at risk.

 

https://serverfault.com/questions/731068/can-fiber-optic-cables-be-too-short-dbm-too-high