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The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments


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10 minutes ago, thyname said:

Guys, if budget allows, try Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Reference Ethernet cables. I promise you, it will be your last Ethernet Cable you will ever need. That is of course, if you cannot afford the Galileo SX 😁 (I cannot) 

Though I've used SR products for many years, including Galileo analogue and digital interconnects in my current system, I'd recommend trying, for a bit less than a c-note, the top end Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, rather than Mr. Denny's, less than top end Galileo cable.  That's assuming you can get your hands on both for trial.  I'm betting the less expensive one from Shunyata will surprise. 

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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2 minutes ago, stevebythebay said:

Though I've used SR products for many years, including Galileo analogue and digital interconnects in my current system, I'd recommend trying, for a bit less than a c-note, the top end Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, rather than Mr. Denny's, less than top end Galileo cable.  That's assuming you can get your hands on both for trial.  I'm betting the less expensive one from Shunyata will surprise. 


Thanks for the recommendation. I am always open to trying different stuff

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11 hours ago, ray-dude said:

 

The Amazon Gods were a bit kinder to me than they were to Larry.  Today I was able to followup my cable listening tests last week with the new contenders.

 

As background, here is a link to what I posted last week:

 

 

 

For this followup test, I wanted to listen to some more CAT8 cables (vs the Dacrown Cat 8 winner from last week), so I picked a random Amazon CAT8 cable (Phizli) and got a Cable Matters Cat 8 (all in black of course).  I also picked up the premium Tera Grand Cat7 cable that Larry mentioned in his write up (vs the flat cable that I had last time).  All tests were with no break in on the cables.

 

I still have my EtherREGEN still powered by a Paul Hynes SR4 @ 12V, with a Tera Grand 6’ Cat 7 cable connecting it to my ethernet wall jack. In my closet, I have a stock MacMini running Roon Core.

 

However, since I’m done with my power supply experiments with EtherREGEN, I now have my ER connected via various cables under test to my NUC i7 (Euphony running HQPlayer Embedded, powered by PowerAdd Pilot2 battery at 16V) connected by a Lush^2 USB cable to my new SoTM tx-USB ultra (stock, powered by Uptone LPS 1.2 @ 12V) then Lush^2 to Chord DAVE to Voxativ 9.87 speakers direct.

 

Here are the cables that were invited to round 2:

 

WALL TO ETHERREGEN: Tera Grand (6’) CAT7 10 Gigabit Ethernet Ultra Flat Patch Cable ($8)

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F7MLJU0/

 

 

RUNNER UP FROM LAST WEEK: Tera Grand (3’) CAT7 10 Gigabit Ethernet Ultra Flat Patch Cable ($8)

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQHD96X

 

WINNER FROM LAST WEEK: Dacrown Cat 8 Ethernet Cable 5’ Shielded ($8)

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QZH6C8F

 

NEW: Tera Grand (3’) CAT7 10 Gigabit Ethernet Premium Patch Cable ($7)

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G4M4FIG

 

NEW: Phizli Cat8 Ethernet Cable (3’) 40Gbps, 2000Mhz with Gold Plated RJ45 Connector ($8)

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XNZ2CGH

 

NEW: Cable Matters SFTP Cat8 Ethernet Cable in Black (3’) ($12)

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NVS8BF5

 

 

Like last week, I mainly focused on bass detail/imaging, and dynamics (a good tell for me for what ER brings to the table. I used several test tracks, but an example is Till Bronner "A Thousand Kisses Deep" from Nightfall, and Diana Krall "The Boulevard of Broken Dreams" from All For You.  For this eval, I was mainly focusing on the sense of space and presence I'm getting from the bass, but the benefits of the ER (as I hear and many have reported) are more than that.

 

Here are my very subjective ratings after sweeping through these a couple times:

 

Tera Grand Flat Cat 7              6 (baseline from last week)

Dacrown Cat 8                        8 (baseline from last week)

Tera Grand Premium Cat 7     8.5 (a bit more bass attack)

Phizli Cat 8                              9 (clearer, and maybe a bit better attack)

Cable Matters Cat 8               10 (even more clarity and attack)

 

 

The Cat 8 cables were generally better than the Cat 7’s, but there was variability from cable to cable, and even overlap (the Cat 7 Tera Grand Premium did better than my favorite Cat 8 Dacrown from last week).

 

As a last test before I called it a night, I wanted to check whether the cable on the A side of the ER (connected to the wall in my case) make a difference?  With the new favorite Cable Matters Cat 8 on the B side to my NUC, I compared having my random ethernet cable from a box (lowest rank last week on the B side) to the Dacrown Cat 8 from the wall to the ER (last week’s winner on the B side).

 

With a confirmation bias squint, is there a difference?  Maybe so, but maybe not.  I think it would take an extended critical listening test to suss out differences.  At this point, the delta is not enough for me to really worry about.  Since the Cable Matters cables are so reasonably priced, I’ll get another one (black of course) to put on the A side to the wall, and not think about the A side any more.

 

As a next step, things are still stepping up enough that I suspect there is more to be had on the B side than what the Cable Matters Cat 8 brings to the party.  If I have time over Christmas break, I may try to do some experiments with adding JSSG360 shielding to this cable to see what happens.  Of course, as we hear feedback from people using the EtherREGEN with the Phasure ET^2 ethernet cable with different shield configurations, all the better!

 

Larry, thanks for the pointer to the Cable Matters cables (their Cat6 cables are my go tos in the rest of my house).  Looking forward to hearing what you’re hearing once you have your round 2 cables in house.

 

 

 

Hey Ray-dude,

 

Many thanks for the write-up and acknowledgement. 

 

I concur, with only 24 hours burn-in the two Cable Matters CAT 8s are the best ethernet cables heard here and a nice step up from the Tera Grand. My guess is SQ will continue to improve over time.

 

The results of your JSSG360 experiment will be interesting.

 

Thanks again,

 

Larry

 

 

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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12 minutes ago, thyname said:


‘She does not have to know. And she cannot possibly notice 😉

What if she heard the difference from the kitchen?

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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1 minute ago, Confused said:

I thought that the wife emerging from the kitchen and asking why the system sounds so much better today trumps any scientifically controlled blind ABX rest?


It all depends on which forum you are posting 😂😉. I personally wouldn’t know. My wife could not care less about my toys. Of course, as long as I pay our bills 

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1 hour ago, lmitche said:

I concur, with only 24 hours burn-in the two Cable Matters CAT 8s are the best ethernet cables heard here and a nice step up from the Tera Grand.

G'day Larry

 

Seems like your cable matters cat 8 has turned out to be a good find 👍

 

I'm interested to know how it compares to the Supra cat8.

 

I think that the Supra cat8's strong points are good layering of the sound stage and a nice natural tone, however I'm aware that versus some other cables it can come off sounding a bit dull... And the Supra cat8 doesn't have a particularly focused image versus something like Audioquest Pearl.... However, I like the layering and the natural tone... But I'm well aware of it's short comings.

 

Does the cable matters cat8 have good layering? Does it have a more focused image?

 

Maybe I'll just have to order some to find out... But down here in Australia I won't receive it until early January 🤣

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3 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

Though I've used SR products for many years, including Galileo analogue and digital interconnects in my current system, I'd recommend trying, for a bit less than a c-note, the top end Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, rather than Mr. Denny's, less than top end Galileo cable.  That's assuming you can get your hands on both for trial.  I'm betting the less expensive one from Shunyata will surprise. 

 

Something like the Purist Audio Design Cat 7, which I purchased long before getting the eR to connect the in-wall ethernet to the DAC, is priced between the no-name stuff and the $1K stuff.  It was a nice upgrade at the time.  Of course, nothing compared to adding the eR.  The PAD Cat7 now resides between the B side of the eR and the DAC.  Just another option...

Grimm Audio MU1 > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3    

Cables:  Kubala-Sosna    Power management:  Shunyata    Room:  Vicoustics  

 

“Nature is pleased with simplicity.”  Isaac Newton

"As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed."  Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man

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1 hour ago, Bricki said:

G'day Larry

 

Seems like your cable matters cat 8 has turned out to be a good find 👍

 

I'm interested to know how it compares to the Supra cat8.

 

I think that the Supra cat8's strong points are good layering of the sound stage and a nice natural tone, however I'm aware that versus some other cables it can come off sounding a bit dull... And the Supra cat8 doesn't have a particularly focused image versus something like Audioquest Pearl.... However, I like the layering and the natural tone... But I'm well aware of it's short comings.

 

Does the cable matters cat8 have good layering? Does it have a more focused image?

 

Maybe I'll just have to order some to find out... But down here in Australia I won't receive it until early January 🤣

Hi Bricki,

 

I haven't compared the Cable Matters (CM) Cat 8 to my diy Supra 8 cable. The connectors on that cable are dodgy, and I've never trusted that the terminations are done correctly. Given this, such a test doesn't make sense. Perhaps someone else with a Supra Cat 8 can have a go. I can say that nothing heard here before has come close to the CM Cat 8 including the Supra.

 

Frankly the sensitivity of my current rig to this part of the chain means that previous bottlenecks have been diminished and the cable is now the constraint. That's progress.

 

SQ is very clear, focused with a kind of density not observed before. I wouldn't called it layered. Deep would be a better description.

 

I am looking forward to further break-in.

 

Larry

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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6 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Hi Bricki,

 

I haven't compared the Cable Matters (CM) Cat 8 to my diy Supra 8 cable. The connectors on that cable are dodgy, and I've never trusted that the terminations are done correctly. Given this, such a test doesn't make sense. Perhaps someone else with a Supra Cat 8 can have a go. I can say that nothing heard here before has come close to the CM Cat 8 including the Supra.

 

Frankly the sensitivity of my current rig to this part of the chain means that previous bottlenecks have been diminished and the cable is now the constraint. That's progress.

 

SQ is very clear, focused with a kind of density not observed before. I wouldn't called it layered. Deep would be a better description.

 

I am looking forward to further break-in.

 

Larry

 

Ordered these (1m length), because heck, they're cheap. Was considering blue, but for some odd reason black was available a day earlier, so I went with that.

 

What are they like in terms of weight and flexibility? I've still got some concerns regarding torsion on my Ethernet connections, so would be happier if they were somewhat flexible in a 1m length. But if I like what I hear, I'll just keep them in the system and be careful.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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5 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Ordered these (1m length), because heck, they're cheap. Was considering blue, but for some odd reason black was available a day earlier, so I went with that.

 

What are they like in terms of weight and flexibility? I've still got some concerns regarding torsion on my Ethernet connections, so would be happier if they were somewhat flexible in a 1m length. But if I like what I hear, I'll just keep them in the system and be careful.

Unfortunately they are BJC Cat 6a stiff. The weight doesn't seem excessive in any way.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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12 hours ago, lmitche said:

I concur, with only 24 hours burn-in the two Cable Matters CAT 8s are the best ethernet cables heard here and a nice step up from the Tera Grand. My guess is SQ will continue to improve over time.

Isn't it a concern that these are SFTP with metal connectors?  

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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18 hours ago, Bricki said:

 

Very nice work 👍

 

Are they the telegartner connectors? Are they an audible improvement over the standard Supra ones? I am thinking of trying the telegartner connectors on my jssg360 x 2 Supra cat 8 cable...

 

IMG_20191013_173640.thumb.jpg.7377f87e49977f862e695d1d138150e2.jpg

 

Once I get my ER I'm thinking of shortening this cable and putting the telegartner connectors on it....

 

I'll be interested to know how your new cable is sounding once it's settled in 👍


No they are not telegartner connectors, I used these https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/rj45-plugs/elbac-942545-s0-ethernet-rj45-cat6-connector-simplified-assembly-p-12107.html

I wouldn’t worry to much of SQ differences with connectors, i think the shield configuration is much more important. PeterSt uses plastic connectors because metal could have residual capacitance.

If you go one page back on the link you have al sorts of utp connectors.

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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After having read the user manual a bit, I have a question: Let's assume (though I haven't yet got the cables and tested with a multimeter) the Cable Matters Cat 8 patch cable metal connectors are shield-tied at both ends.

 

My system is as follows: Modem to router to ER to microRendu to IsoREGEN to DAC. In each case there is only one Ethernet or (to the IsoREGEN and DAC) USB connection. ER, microRendu, and IsoREGEN are powered by UpTone ground shunted SMPSs. The DAC is powered by an LPS-1 energized by another UpTone ground shunted SMPS. Modem and router are powered by their own SMPSs.

 

I understand the "B" side Ethernet connection from the EtherREGEN to the microRendu is not a concern regarding leakage loops. What I wondered was whether using cables with continuity through the shields for the single "A" side connection between the router and the EtherRegen, and/or the connection between modem and router, would pose a concern regarding leakage loops in this configuration.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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10 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Very good question.

All Ethernet devices have transformers on the signal lines which are supposed to prevent traditional ground loops, low frequency leakage and other electrical "muck" from winding up on the data lines. When you use end to end tied cable you you MAY be directly connecting the ground planes of devices together. Some devices have the shield of the jack connected through a cap to the ground plane of the device, some do not. If the cap is there you do not get a full galvanic connection but many types of signals will go right through the cap.

 

So in essence you are bypassing a lot of the isolation that is designed into the system. Whether this is going to cause a problem again depends on your setup. Do you have something connected to the A side that is important (maybe a TV or receiver etc), then using  end to end tied cables for connections to the A side devices may yield compromised performance. If all you have on the A side are things such as a router and a NAS, it may not matter.

 

Unfortunately there is no hard and fast rule here, you may find that the "better" cables attributes are mitigated by the shield tied configuration in some configurations. The only way to find that out is to try.

 

John S.

 

Two follow-up questions:

 

- Will the UpTone ground shunted SMPS power a device using a 12V 2.5A power supply, and what about a 12V 1.5A device?

 

- Would powering my modem and router with the UpTone SMPSs possibly help at all in my configuration (it would mean all Ethernet-connected devices would be using the ground-shunted power supplies)? Or still the same answer, try and see if it helps?

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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12 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Two follow-up questions:

 

- Will the UpTone ground shunted SMPS power a device using a 12V 2.5A power supply, and what about a 12V 1.5A device?

 

- Would powering my modem and router with the UpTone SMPSs possibly help at all in my configuration (it would mean all Ethernet-connected devices would be using the ground-shunted power supplies)? Or still the same answer, try and see if it helps?


Hi Jud,

My systeem is as simple as yours, modem/router to ER to Server. A year ago or so when we also discussed shunting smps I bought a ifi iPower smps for my modem/router and shunted it to ground. This was the first time I had an noticeable uplift in SQ from a network tweak. Now I wouldn’t buy an ifi anymore and would use a lps.

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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