Official Qobuz Issues Thread

[Account Closed]

FYI Qobuz,

 

I am having trouble with playback of some but not all 96/24 and 192/24 content when using the Win 10 Desktop App. The same content does play using the Web Player and Roon.

[exdmd]

Same here On Win 10 but I have not tried the web player. Using Wasapi exclusive mode sound on the version 5.0.2-b002 desktop app begins to distort after about five minutes of playing requiring a restart. Because of that I am using Audirvana+ for Qobuz instead of the app but go back occasionally to get the latest update to see if the problem has been fixed. Tried it again last night and distortion still present.

[tomjtx]

I like the SQ of qobuz with the Studio sub. 

However I did encounter a problem in purchasing a recording from the qobuz store. 

I use Roon integrated to qobuz for streaming. I purchased a recording, Barbara singing French songs. What was downloaded to my Macbook Pro was a beand doing early 60s pop/rock! To double check this was NOT what I purchased I streamed the correct recording and it was correct.

 

I realize I'm in the beta and this post is more to let qobuz know about this problem and , Get a refund or the correct recording 🙂

The other problem was I couldn't download to the qobuz app on my Mac. I had to download a tor file.

 

When I download from HDtracks the file automatically goes to an HDtracks folder when Roon sees. 

Downloading a tor file I would need to point roon to a new folder for each recording I buy.

 

I hope this issues can be addressed. So that all downloads from the qobuz store goes into 1 qobuz folder

 

[greyscale]

Does Qobuz need feedback on the DNLA beta? Will not work with a network (LAN) Marantz sr8012. FWIW, Qobuz from Audirvana + works fine.

[greyscale]

Have a question for any Sublime+ users. Can anyone give me an idea of what discount percentage the Sublime+ subscription provides for purchases of HiRes albums?. The Qobuz site is vague in this.  Also, in 2018 I purchased an album from Qobuz, only to find the exact same album priceed $3.00usd cheaper in both Itunes as well as Amazon music. Hence, my question.

[Peter Hyatt]

Hi

 

40% to 50% is my early guess. I’ve only purchased one so far but as I price, most are near 1/2 off the general sellers of hi res that I frequent. 

 

Keep in mind the comparison at the same resolution. 

 

 

[firedog]

31 minutes ago, greyscale said:

Have a question for any Sublime+ users. Can anyone give me an idea of what discount percentage the Sublime+ subscription provides for purchases of HiRes albums?. The Qobuz site is vague in this.  Also, in 2018 I purchased an album from Qobuz, only to find the exact same album priceed $3.00usd cheaper in both Itunes as well as Amazon music. Hence, my question.

I don't think there is a set discount - it varies from album to album. Usually substantial, even approaching 40-50%. If you buy a fair amount of downloads, I think the Sublime+ will easily pay for more than the extra it costs you.
Price comparisons are always good. Generally among the several well known hi res download sites, at least one will have the same album for substantially less. This is especially true with classical music, where the differences between sites can be 50% for the same album.

[gdpr]

On 11/15/2018 at 9:38 AM, ddetaey said:

 

Here download pricing for this morning's Qobuz topcharts - downloads & streaming - all in Euro.

 

Artist	Album	Redbook	HighRez	Sublime
Qobuz Charts Downloads
Muse	Simulation Theory (Deluxe)	17,49	20,49	13,49
The Beatles	White Album [Super Deluxe]	83,99	136,99	68,49
Dead Can Dance	Dionysus	11,99	16,49	8,49
The Beatles	The Beatles	27,99	38,99	19,49
Imagine Dragons	Origins	14,99	21,49	10,99
Marianne Faithfull	Negative Capability	13,49	15,99	10,49
Baxter Dury & Étienne de Crécy  & Delilah Holliday	B.E.D	7,49	10,49	5,49
Steven Wilson	Home Invasion: In Concert At The Royal Albert Hall	21,99	30,99	15,49
Eagles	Legacy	33,99	39,99	25,99
Eric Bibb	Global Griot	10,99	14,99	7,49
Qobuz Charts Streaming
Cat Power	Wanderer	7,99	11,99	7,99
Christine And The Queens	Chris	11,99	17,99	11,99
Hélène Grimaud	Memory	14,99	21,49	10,99
Víkingur Ólafsson	Johann Sebastian Bach	14,99	21,49	10,99
Prince	Piano & A Microphone 1983	14,99	17,49	11,49
Tony Bennett & Diana Krall with the Bill Charlap Trio	Love Is Here To Stay	14,99	21,49	10,99
Shai Maestro	The Dream Thief	16,49	23,49	11,99
John Lennon	Imagine - The Ultimate Collection	41,99	N.A.	N.A.
Tom Petty	An American Treasure (Deluxe)	33,99	39,99	25,99
Angele	Brol	14,99	21,49	10,99

 

Dirk

 

[jhwalker]

46 minutes ago, firedog said:

I don't think there is a set discount - it varies from album to album. Usually substantial, even approaching 40-50%. If you buy a fair amount of downloads, I think the Sublime+ will easily pay for more than the extra it costs you.
Price comparisons are always good. Generally among the several well known hi res download sites, at least one will have the same album for substantially less. This is especially true with classical music, where the differences between sites can be 50% for the same album.

 

Agreed - it's substantial.  Buying from the Qobuz France site, the price for a hi-res release is typically about 9-10 Euros, and the same release at HDTracks is generally $18.

 

Can be more / less for single releases, but that's a good ballpark number.

[#Yoda#]

And now, that we know the discounts for many Qobuz HiRes albums think about how this business model can be sustainable. The gross margin for download reseller is usually around 20%. When Qobuz offers a discount of 40 - 60 % to Sublime subscribers like me, it means they subsidize their streaming service massively. See the numbers and draw your conclusions.

 

It's just a matter of time, Xandries financial strength and overall market position when Qobuz will reduce or stop this discount model. My tip: Take the discounts to download the albums you ever wanted to own in HiRes, get HiRes streaming quasi for free, be happy about your savings, even compared to CD quality download or many CDs on Amazon and enjoy the music.

[left channel]

30 minutes ago, #Yoda# said:

And now, that we know the discounts for many Qobuz HiRes albums think about how this business model can be sustainable. The gross margin for download reseller is usually around 20%. When Qobuz offers a discount of 40 - 60 % four Sublime subscribers like me, it means they subsidize their streaming service massively. See the numbers and draw your conclusions.

 

It's just a matter of time, Xandries financial strength and overall market position when Qobuz will reduce or stop this discount model. My tip: Take the discounts to download the albums you ever wanted to own in HiRes, get HiRes streaming quasi for free and enjoy the music.

 

It could be a temporary loss leader to increase market share, but I doubt it. This is a common business model, and should include padding for outliers (and I mean that in a good way) like you. The challenge is to predict at what price people like me subsidize you, with the Sublime+ subscription I mostly use for streaming. I will be changing to Studio, but they should have built padding into that too.

Back in the day I helped launch a mobile internet dial-up service that had a similar structure. Most people paid monthly or annually for a flat rate subscription, but only used it when traveling. Some had only that service and no other way to get their email, but still only accessed it every few days. (Wow...remember that? Even Steve Jobs never imagined we wouldn't be able to put our mobile devices down). Others dialed in once or twice day, but that was not a problem.

 

The few outliers that used the service constantly were never a financial problem, and it was fun sport to watch just how much they did dial in. If you asked them about it they would have said we were fools, because obviously everyone would take advantage of us and we would go broke. But anecdotes are not averages, and our operations were profitable. I've since advised businesses on similar models for other products and services.

 

[Jud]

2 hours ago, greyscale said:

Have a question for any Sublime+ users. Can anyone give me an idea of what discount percentage the Sublime+ subscription provides for purchases of HiRes albums?. The Qobuz site is vague in this.  Also, in 2018 I purchased an album from Qobuz, only to find the exact same album priceed $3.00usd cheaper in both Itunes as well as Amazon music. Hence, my question.

 

You can find price listings in the Qobuz store. You might check out the discount on something fairly expensive at the download sites, like the White Album.

[tapatrick]

I've added Qobuz to my Roon Tidal set up to test it out. On hires 24/192 files I'm getting dropouts and skipping. MQA versions fair a bit better, but still skipping/stopping issues. There is nothing worse that a dropout or stopping in the middle of a track. In  years of using Tidal I didn't have that problem.

 

I've been hesitant to try Qobuz again as I tried it a few years ago and wasn't happy with service and response from Qobuz, but recent Roon integration and positive reports from others made me rethink. Doesn't bode well I'm afraid.

 

Anyone know if a more powerful processor is needed to handle the higher res files?

[#Yoda#]

48 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

It could be a temporary loss leader to increase market share, but I doubt it. This is a common business model, and should include padding for outliers (and I mean that in a good way) like you. The challenge is to predict at what price people like me subsidize you, with the Sublime+ subscription I mostly use for streaming. I will be changing to Studio, but they should have built padding into that too.

Back in the day I helped launch a mobile internet dial-up service that had a similar structure. Most people paid monthly or annually for a flat rate subscription, but only used it when traveling. Some had only that service and no other way to get their email, but still only accessed it every few days. (Wow...remember that? Even Steve Jobs never imagined we wouldn't be able to put our mobile devices down). Others dialed in once or twice day, but that was not a problem.

 

The few outliers that used the service constantly were never a financial problem, and it was fun sport to watch just how much they did dial in. If you asked them about it they would have said we were fools, because obviously everyone would take advantage of us and we would go broke. But anecdotes are not averages, and our operations were profitable. I've since advised businesses on similar models for other products and services.

 

Maybe, you are correct with your general assumption, but you shouldn't forget that Qobuz hasn't been a profitable business in the resent years, if ever. Qobuz was insolvent not long ago.

The audio streaming market as such is not profitable for nearly all service providers and specifically the HiRes market, anyway if streaming or download is a very small niche with usually relatively old and hence more conservatively acting customers or user. I'm quite sure, Qobuz has in Europe a lot more HiRes download customers than streaming subscribers. 

[left channel]

15 minutes ago, #Yoda# said:

Maybe, you are correct with your general assumption, but you shouldn't forget that Qobuz hasn't been a profitable business in the resent years, if ever. Qobuz was insolvent not long ago.

The audio streaming market as such is not profitable for nearly all service providers and specifically the HiRes market, anyway if streaming or download is a very small niche with usually relatively old and hence more conservatively acting customers or user. I'm quite sure, Qobuz has in Europe a lot more HiRes download customers than streaming subscribers. 

 

There's no way for us to know, but since the insolvency, new ownership, and new pricing structure they've been projecting profitability within a specific time period, which is something we have not heard from their competitors as far as I know.

What makes audio streaming so unprofitable is the same as it was back in the early days of the internet and World Wide Web, except back then it was "chasing eyeballs" instead of ears. Qobuz may be getting a lot out of targeting fewer higher-margin customers instead of lots of ears, if they've modeled this correctly.

I could go on for hours about what goes into these models, but one simple example would be the value of selling a Sublime+ subscription in advance, instead of full-price downloads throughout the year. Even if the two numbers are equal, or even if the full-price downloads bring in more money, a net present value (NPV) calculation may show that getting the money sooner improves profitability when cost of capital is considered, not to mention helping with cash flow.

 

But how about I don't go on for hours? You can all thank me now. 🙂

[rickca]

7 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Doesn't bode well I'm afraid.

I suspect this is a Roon/Qobuz integration problem.  I've been using Qobuz for more than 3 years and I've pretty much never had dropouts or skipping.  I am in the USA but my account is in France.

 

I hope Roon didn't push out Qobuz integration too soon because Qobuz is excellent.  Any issues you experienced years ago are hopefully long gone.

[#Yoda#]

3 minutes ago, left channel said:

But how about I don't go on for hours? You can all thank me now. 🙂

I agree! 🍻

[Jud]

20 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

There's no way for us to know, but since the insolvency, new ownership, and new pricing structure they've been projecting profitability within a specific time period, which is something we have not heard from their competitors as far as I know.

What makes audio streaming so unprofitable is the same as it was back in the early days of the internet and World Wide Web, except back then it was "chasing eyeballs" instead of ears. Qobuz may be getting a lot out of targeting fewer higher-margin customers instead of lots of ears, if they've modeled this correctly.

I could go on for hours about what goes into these models, but one simple example would be the value of selling a Sublime+ subscription in advance, instead of full-price downloads throughout the year. Even if the two numbers are equal, or even if the full-price downloads bring in more money, a net present value (NPV) calculation may show that getting the money sooner improves profitability when cost of capital is considered, not to mention helping with cash flow.

 

But how about I don't go on for hours? You can all thank me now. 🙂

 

Other business projections that may have been made:

 

- Once people become accustomed to hi res streaming, they won't download as much, so any losses from Sublime+ pricing will be minimized (paying 50% is great, nothing is even better).

 

- Or on the flip side, if these aren't loss leaders but break-even or even a razor thin margin, people will wind up buying quite a bit more, and certainly liking and staying with the service. (This has always been Amazon's business model, and back in the day it was very popular to predict it was unsustainable. How'd that work out?)

[goon525]

34 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I've added Qobuz to my Roon Tidal set up to test it out. On hires 24/192 files I'm getting dropouts and skipping. MQA versions fair a bit better, but still skipping/stopping issues. There is nothing worse that a dropout or stopping in the middle of a track. In  years of using Tidal I didn't have that problem.

 

I've been hesitant to try Qobuz again as I tried it a few years ago and wasn't happy with service and response from Qobuz, but recent Roon integration and positive reports from others made me rethink. Doesn't bode well I'm afraid.

 

Anyone know if a more powerful processor is needed to handle the higher res files?

Don’t understand the reference to Qobuz MQA versions fare a bit better, since Qobuz doesn’t even offer MQA - at least in Europe.

[tapatrick]

15 minutes ago, goon525 said:

Don’t understand the reference to Qobuz MQA versions fare a bit better, since Qobuz doesn’t even offer MQA - at least in Europe.

see here: could be an error but says MQA on one of the versions. In any case the 'MQA' version seemed to play with  less stops...

 

Ha! I just spotted my mistake, the MQA one is Tidal..  its played for an hour without stopping.... the Qobuz ones doesn't play properly.

 

 

[gdpr]

43 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I've added Qobuz to my Roon Tidal set up to test it out. On hires 24/192 files I'm getting dropouts and skipping. MQA versions fair a bit better, but still skipping/stopping issues. There is nothing worse that a dropout or stopping in the middle of a track. In  years of using Tidal I didn't have that problem.

 

I've been hesitant to try Qobuz again as I tried it a few years ago and wasn't happy with service and response from Qobuz, but recent Roon integration and positive reports from others made me rethink. Doesn't bode well I'm afraid.

 

Anyone know if a more powerful processor is needed to handle the higher res files?

I am playing/streamin Derek & The Dominoes In Concert in 192kHz/24bit right now in Roon/Qobuz without problems.

In about 30 minutes I experienced 1 dropout, but that I have sometimes with 44kHz/16bit as well. (As well when streaming via Qobuz app)

Nothing to do with performance in my opinion

 

Dirk

[goon525]

Well that is interesting. The issue may be that I’m listening through a Linn streamer, and they definitely don’t like MQA, so it may not be reporting MQA versions.

[tapatrick]

6 minutes ago, ddetaey said:

......In about 30 minutes I experienced 1 dropout, but that I have sometimes with 44kHz/16bit as well. .......

Nothing to do with performance in my opinion

I don't want to pay for dropouts. I'm aware these can be caused by all kinds of things but Ive not had any with tidal on 44 or MQA for 2-3 years, only today using Qobuz 24 192.. Just wondering what the cause is.

[tapatrick]

deleted

[bobbmd]

@tapatrick  @ddetaey: FWIW I had a French Qobuz account since 2013 I now have had a USA Qobuz account(STUDIO) for about a week I have had TIDAL since its inception and am a ROON lifetime subscriber and have TIDAL/Qobuz on A+3-I have never experienced 'dropouts' listening on any of them ever and 'dd' I went and listened to that Derrick&Dominoes in HiRes at 24/192 thanks for that tidbit sounds great in 24/192 and I get 2 LED lights on my ME2 DAC. My only problem is that on ROON if you click 'versions' even if it says MQA for TIDAL or HiRes 23/96 or 192 for Qobuz it only plays in 16/44 (sometimes) BUT it all sounds great. I don't know why you folks get dropouts BUT what I have noticed is that TIDAL MQA's in TIDAL playlists I transferred via Soundiiz to Qobuz some will play as 24/88 24/96 or 24/192 with the HiRes logo through ROON so Qobuz in some way recognizes MQA(as as HiRes format??)- go figure

bobbmd