Router Enhancement

[sandyk]

10 minutes ago, mansr said:

If I power my router with a linear power supply, will Wikipedia articles be more accurate?

 

The accuracy of Wikipedia articles is governed solely by the verified quality of the input, which would appear to rule out virtually every member that primarily posts in the General area of this forum in respect to Computer Audio.

 

You don't need to use a Linear supply for a Router to help with the overall SQ of your system.

Try earthing the 0 volts side of it's SMPS plugpack as John Swenson has suggested.

[plissken]

4 hours ago, m3lraaHnevetS said:

sorry to disturb your peace but in the first article I read:

 

AS: Since there's no such thing as 1s and 0s in digital transmission, what is being sent over our USB/Firewire/Ethernet cables when we play back music files?

CH: An ANALOG signal!

Steve Silberman: I think this is where things get misconstrued. The signals we think of abstractly as “digital” are in fact high-speed analog square waves, susceptible to all of the same damage and distortions as any other analog signal.

So now what?

 

A hell of a lot actually. Good ol' Steve, and I've watched his presentations, only knows about how to plug an Ethernet cable in.

 

Here's what I propose:

 

Put a router at one end of the house. Run a cable from the listening room to the router. You tell me when the router is on blocks or not.

[davide256]

6 hours ago, m3lraaHnevetS said:

Wish it was that simple...

If it wasn’t we would all still be sending mag tapes and paper cards for data transmission. 

[MikeyFresh]

5 hours ago, m3lraaHnevetS said:

might even try the op’ tweak though that seems a little far fetched even for me

 

And maybe thats the whole point, the OP indicated it was suggested to him by the manufacturer Bricasti that this could make a difference, and that they were using Stillpoints.

 

The OP then took that home and applied it in his own system using the similar though not identical Sort Kones. So far no one has been fleeced or injured.

 

Low and behold, it improves the OP's system performance, and he makes mention on CA with this thread. The OP then literally invites others to try it out for themselves. Still no one fleeced or injured.

 

So @m3lraaHnevetS has it right, maybe he'll give this a go at some point despite not having any big expectation for a positive outcome. If he does elect to try it out, he can post here whether or not he hears any improvement or not, and we all stand to gain at least a little something from that data point.

 

6 hours ago, sandyk said:

Vibration control is beneficial with almost every piece of electronic equipment.

It is usually taken into account during the actual design process of the equipment, within cost restraints dictated by the bean counters.

Expensive CD/DVD players such as some from Sony etc.(e.g.SA11)  don't just use honeycomb construction in the metal work so that the customer thinks that because it is heavier than average, that it must have more inside it !

Even taking a decent quality DVD/BR player off the equipment shelf and placing it on a carpeted floor, can  alter how it sounds to some extent !

 

My experience exactly.

 

I don't use this kind of product under my router for the simple reason that the router is mounted to the ceiling, I don't have the ability to try this from that standpoint.

 

However... I do own the Symposium Rollerblock isolation footers, to the best of my knowledge they aren't too dissimilar to Stillpoints or Sort Kones.

 

There is not one single piece of audio gear (digital or analog) that I have ever placed on Rollerblocks, that didn't have it's sound change in rather obvious and noticeable ways. What ways you might wonder? Exactly the way the OP describes it in his first post in this thread.

 

So while I have not tried ball bearing based isolation devices under my router, and I can't easily test it without un-mounting my router from the ceiling, I have zero doubt that Bricasti and OP aren't right that this could make a positive change in sound quality.

 

Another aspect of my personal experience with ball bearing isolation devices... even the material and thickness of what they sit on has an effect in changing the sound.

 

If you have something like Rollerblocks supporting a component on a shelf made of bird's eye maple, that will sound a little different than a shelf made of walnut. Best yet is a shelf made of different/varying density and thickness material layers, which produces a constrained layer damping effect that seems to maximize the potential of the Rollerblocks.

 

The honeycomb construction that @sandyk referred to above is actually a design feature of Rollerblocks. The ball bearing polished cup base has it's underside drilled out in a matrix-type pattern, and each hole is filled with closed cell foam, producing a constrained layer damping effect that dissipates vibration as minute/trace amounts of heat, as does the friction/drag of the bearing in the cup.

 

These products do work, though the price of admission is not trivial. I don't have any reason to think there could not be any sonic improvement if used under a router in a network audio system. That would actually be of little or no surprise to me, though the degree to which any one person attributes such sonic improvement will obviously vary.

 

[Siltech817]

6 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

you would be well advised to ask politely for engineers to educate you

 

Us poor unwashed masses should grovel to the almighty engineers present at any given moment, anxiously awaiting their verdicts while praying not to be flamed?

Maybe these engineers you describe should just start their own threads, and of course crap there all they wish. Or maybe go pontificate on an engineering forum of some sort.

[One and a half]

Anything in the chain in front of a DAC has the ability to alter its sound, since even small amounts of noise interfere with the D to A conversion. If a router is in the chain preceding the DAC, then yes it can affect the DAC. The router down the street cannot since the crud from it is lost via the power lines... just as well, mind. Although some RF from un-suppressed inverters can travel for several hundred metres from the source, as evidenced on a commute to the office and having to put up with buzz on AM radio in slow moving traffic. Strange the further away, the noise volume peaks and troughs roughly when there's a cross beam on the power poles.

 

Anyway, I'm open to anti vibration measures for any signal path component, but first remove the electrical noise, since this evil needs to be tamed. There's always going to be those that dismiss the experience of the OP,  we know who you are, the vocal minority thread crappers, just look outside the bubble for a change. We don't need saving our souls, if you don't like the topic pi$$ off.

[m3lraaHnevetS]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

Anything in the chain in front of a DAC has the ability to alter its sound, since even small amounts of noise interfere with the D to A conversion. If a router is in the chain preceding the DAC, then yes it can affect the DAC. The router down the street cannot since the crud from it is lost via the power lines... just as well, mind. Although some RF from un-suppressed inverters can travel for several hundred metres from the source, as evidenced on a commute to the office and having to put up with buzz on AM radio in slow moving traffic. Strange the further away, the noise volume peaks and troughs roughly when there's a cross beam on the power poles.

 

Anyway, I'm open to anti vibration measures for any signal path component, but first remove the electrical noise, since this evil needs to be tamed. There's always going to be those that dismiss the experience of the OP,  we know who you are, the vocal minority thread crappers, just look outside the bubble for a change. We don't need saving our souls, if you don't like the topic pi$$ off.

amen

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, One and a half said:

There's always going to be those that dismiss the experience of the OP,  we know who you are, the vocal minority thread crappers, just look outside the bubble for a change. We don't need saving our souls, if you don't like the topic pi$$ off.

 

 

                                                       +21 (count them)

 

Click on image for a larger image.

[sandyk]

Quote

Anything in the chain in front of a DAC has the ability to alter its sound,
 since even small amounts of noise interfere with the D to A conversion.
 If a router is in the chain preceding the DAC, then yes it can affect the DAC.
 ......Anyway, I'm open to anti vibration measures for any signal path component,
but first remove the electrical noise, since this evil needs to be tamed

Back to serious again.

 I completely agree with one and a half!

Anti Vibration is the icing on the cake.

[Cebolla]

2 hours ago, One and a half said:

Anyway, I'm open to anti vibration measures for any signal path component, but first remove the electrical noise, since this evil needs to be tamed. There's always going to be those that dismiss the experience of the OP,  we know who you are, the vocal minority thread crappers, just look outside the bubble for a change. We don't need saving our souls, if you don't like the topic pi$$ off.

 

In the OP's specific case, ie, network streaming audio file (ie, yet to be decoded & played) tracks from a NAS on the same network & from TIDAL's online servers, there is no digital audio signal path through the network - so the router cannot be a component in the signal path!

[Miska]

44 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

In the OP's specific case, ie, network streaming audio file (ie, yet to be decoded & played) tracks from a NAS on the same network & from TIDAL's online servers, there is no digital audio signal path through the network - so the router cannot be a component in the signal path!

 

Except if one uses the built-in switch of typical home router. But that is easy to improve by adding a good separate switch on the network. Then the router device never even sees the traffic that doesn't touch internet.

 

I personally like the switches made by HPE with built-in PSU... I hate wall-warts and other external power dongles.

 

[Ralf11]

9 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

In the OP's specific case, ie, network streaming audio file (ie, yet to be decoded & played) tracks from a NAS on the same network & from TIDAL's online servers, there is no digital audio signal path through the network - so the router cannot be a component in the signal path!

 

the router is a component in the confirmation bias path!

 

Now please stop using science and engineering to crap on this thread and let it become yet another safe space for the snowflakes to ignore reality and snort their fairy dust

[rando]

10 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

...the snowflakes to ignore reality and snort their fairy dust

 

Don't they provide a sub-column for fairy dust content in air quality ratings out there?  

 

 

 

This message was sent from my mobile device leeching free wi-fi from Ye Olde Pancake House in a wizard's forest.

[m3lraaHnevetS]

Hahaha, you girls make me laugh. Don’t go and get a life! You would be missed dearly

[One and a half]

@Ralf11, @Cebolla where’s your convincing proof that the OP’s findings can’t be valid, come on, where is it? Real hard evidence, that can be used in a court, infallible. It’s easy to mock, and make smug remarks, makes you look like bullies in high school, immature twits.

[mansr]

Innocent until proved guilty doesn't apply to science?

[Ralf11]

maybe less than two doesn't understand the previous discussion or comments (besides not understanding law)

[Les Habitants]

On 11/22/2017 at 5:25 PM, michaelD said:

I’m the originator and this thread has gotten way off course.  I told about my personal experience with putting vibration control under a router.  Note the word personal.   Please keep it to your own actual experiences only!

 

I think the thread starter has already politely asked for the trolling to stop.

I request moderation from @The Computer Audiophile as some recent posts haven't complied.

Safe places, snowflakes and snorting fairy dust?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here's the deal guys - There are people who just want to talk about subjective experiences. There are people who just want to talk about objectively verifiable facts. Most people are in the middle. 

 

Sometimes the groups of people don't mix well in conversations. If people are having a conversation about something and they aren't interested in what you have to say, get over it and leave them alone. You wouldn't pester people at a church or mosque about their beliefs if they asked you to leave, so don't do it online. 

 

This concept works both ways. Feel free to start discussions about why bits are bits, why routers aren't effected by isolation devices, or your experience with magic pixie dust lowering the noise floor. Those who want a balanced discussion will be happy to engage and read comments from both sides. Those who aren't interested in a balanced discussion can elect to keep the discussion focussed on a specific belief (objective or subjective).

 

In this specific topic, the OP and others are just interested in people's opinions about router enhancement. If you are onboard with the concept, have fun. If you think this is BS, please start a different topic refuting this concept. This way, both groups of people can read/comment in peace. If the OP is OK with it, the objective guys can even leave a comment about why they don't believe this stuff, then back off. Heck, I'm even cool with a new topic being started and a link to the new topic being left in this topic. For example, "I believe this stuff can't be real based on my education and experience, and I've started a topic with information that refutes this stuff ..."

 

I'd prefer if someone could start a different thread that was for completely open discussion. That's just my preference, but I don't really care which side of the fence anyone is on, if they want a specific topic to stick to a certain side. 

 

 

P.S. My own opinion on this topic is that I don't believe it's possible to change the sound with anything related to a router. I found @plissken comment about sending Tidal some vibration devices to solve the issue for everyone hilarious. I like to have a sense of humor about this great hobby of ours. However, I don't judge anyone for testing this stuff and hearing a difference. It's no skin off my back if someone uses vibration control under a router and hears a sonic benefit. I have respect for everyone here and I respect their opinions.

[The Computer Audiophile]

It does no good to waste your time bickering when it’s against the rules. 

 

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