Audirvana Plus 3 (official thread)

[bnbayer]

11 hours ago, rodrigaj said:

 

I can't help you on Direct Mode since my use of A+ is on a network.

 

Here is the link from Apple  on El Capitan upgrade:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886

So, another question comes up... if we stay with the network connection, and Direct Mode becomes a non-issue, is there any consensus as to sound quality amongst the newer versions of Mac OS? (i.e., El Capitan, Sierra, High Sierra) Do any sound better or worse?

[rodrigaj]

9 hours ago, bnbayer said:

So, another question comes up... if we stay with the network connection, and Direct Mode becomes a non-issue, is there any consensus as to sound quality amongst the newer versions of Mac OS? (i.e., El Capitan, Sierra, High Sierra) Do any sound better or worse?

 

I bought my mac mini used and it came with Yosemite. I ran A+ on my network with Yosemite for one month. As soon as I found out about A+ 3.5 I upgraded to Sierra. I could hear no difference between Yosemite and Sierra on the network.

 

I chose Sierra based on the recommendation of a local Apple certified technician, solely for technical reasons, having nothing to do with sound quality.

 

I switch OS only when I have to. I have Sierra on my iMac and I was familiar with it, so that was what I went with. I would have stayed with Yosemite had it not been for the A+ 3.5 announcement.

[matthias]

Does someone know when Audirvana 3.5 will be released?

On FB they announced Audirvana for Windows coming SOON and Audirvana 3.5 for Mac VERY SOON.

So, first 3.5 and then Audirvana for Windows?

Thanks

 

Matt

[jimdukey]

I found this on the A+ Web site.

I guess I still don't get the whole Direct Mode thing, post El Capitan.

How can it be advertised as an Optimization and not be available without the patch at the same time?

 

[rickca]

1 hour ago, jimdukey said:

How can it be advertised as an Optimization and not be available without the patch at the same time?

Good point, the A+ website should get updated to indicate which releases of OS X support direct mode without a patch.

[bnbayer]

6 hours ago, jimdukey said:

I found this on the A+ Web site.

I guess I still don't get the whole Direct Mode thing, post El Capitan.

How can it be advertised as an Optimization and not be available without the patch at the same time?

 

Apple is "post El Capitan" but that doesn't mean you have to be. A lot of us haven't found a compelling reason to change what works on our music computers.

 

And, of course, the patch is available even if you don't choose to apply it.

[jimdukey]

I have more software that is updated to Sierra.

I suppose buying separate computer for EC is possible, but don't know how to get EC installed instead of High Sierra, which a new one would have.

Or maybe I could Partition the one I have.

Again, don't know how.
I wish Damien would just re-design A+, maybe that's coming with the new version coming out.

And it's not a question of choosing not to apply the Patch, I don't know how, in spite of detailed instructions.

I think A+ needs to simpler to use, patches or old OS's aren't the best way forward, IMO.

 

[RunHomeSlow]

I think Damien should bring back the check box for Direct Mode in the preferences so everybody will think they still have it...

and noone will notice it is not there anymore. And we could just enjoy the sound of the 2018 A+ on new Macs and PCs

[pl_svn]

after getting mad, a couple of weeks ago, to understand why I couldn't anymore access remotely my dedicated, headless, Mac mini still on 10.11.6 and finding out, in the end, that culprit was an old version of ARD incompatible with newest one installed by High Sierra on the MBP I use to control it... updated the Mini to 10.13.4 and will never look back

[rodrigaj]

Question:

Does "Maximum memory allocated for tracks pre-load", set in the A+ preferences under Audio System, have any effect on Tidal or Qobuz streaming? Or is that setting meaningful solely for local (NAS, HD, etc.) music libraries?

[jimdukey]

"no one will notice it is not there anymore"

That doesn't work for me.

Direct Mode was offered as an enhancement to the sound of A+, now it's gone, for most of us.

To me, that's a step backwards, and I won't ignore it.

98% of A+ isn't good enough when I used to have 100%.

And who is to say it makes only a .5% - 2% difference as some claimed?

I don't know how he can sell the product under the circumstances.

I will get the new version if it eliminates the problem.

otherwise I'll stay with HQ.

Almost as good isn't.

And you have the Patch, how can you then tell us that it's not really necessary?

[bnbayer]

Complain to Apple. Apple blocked access to this feature for all programs by all developers. It's not the first function I used that Apple has taken away.

 

You have four choices: 1) get a computer that can run El Capitan; 2) run the patch on your [High] Sierra computer; 3) Run via Ethernet (through something like a microRendu or Pioneer Network Player where Diect Mode doesn't apply); or, 4)Live with it.

 

This is not an Audirvana issue.

 

[Aboulfad]

3 hours ago, rodrigaj said:

Question:

Does "Maximum memory allocated for tracks pre-load", set in the A+ preferences under Audio System, have any effect on Tidal or Qobuz streaming? Or is that setting meaningful solely for local (NAS, HD, etc.) music libraries?

Interesting question, the manual makes no reference or distinction to what a track is, but if I wanted to bet, I’d say it’s mostly for pre-fetching local tracks into memory. But there must be still some buffering happening for HiFi streaming services worth few secs.

[jimdukey]

Or,

Move on.

It IS an A+ Problem, as it doesn't affect HQ.

The other solutions involve spending money on a Rendu, or new computer.

Not going to happen.

I like USB, the Jitterbug and Ifi Box I already have improve the sound a Lot.

As Miska at HQ said, each Developer has their own way to 

make their software work on a Mac.

Not all are at the mercy of that Audio Family Kext thingy.

I'm hoping that Damien will find another, even better way to make A+ 3.5 work!

Either way, I won't bother anyone here again.

 

[diecaster]

1 hour ago, bnbayer said:

Complain to Apple. Apple blocked access to this feature for all programs by all developers. It's not the first function I used that Apple has taken away.

 

You have four choices: 1) get a computer that can run El Capitan; 2) run the patch on your [High] Sierra computer; 3) Run via Ethernet (through something like a microRendu or Pioneer Network Player where Diect Mode doesn't apply); or, 4)Live with it.

 

This is not an Audirvana issue.

 

 

It's not an Apple issue either. Damien was doing something Apple specifically warned against and it bit Damien in the butt. The "blame" lies squarely with Damien.

[buonassi]

15 hours ago, rodrigaj said:

Question:

Does "Maximum memory allocated for tracks pre-load", set in the A+ preferences under Audio System, have any effect on Tidal or Qobuz streaming? Or is that setting meaningful solely for local (NAS, HD, etc.) music libraries?

 

It behaves the same way for Tidal streaming just like my local library.  At least this is what I've deduced from monitoring the CPU activity and RAM usage while listening.  

 

If I have a large 'pre load' setting, Tidal downloads that song, and usually the next two (and half of the third song!) pretty quickly, it then loads it all into RAM for playback.  When the first song has finished playing and the track changes to the second track, the third song will finish loading and a fourth will begin to pre load as well.  

 

You can observe this by pressing play on an album in Tidal and waiting for the buffering into RAM to halt.  Then skip tracks forward.  After a skipping one or two, you'll find a song that still hasn't finished loading (confirmed visually with the play control bar).  It'll go from 1/3 or so gray to fully gray.  This is best observed if you're doing upsampling, otherwise it happens so darn quick you may not see it.  

[rodrigaj]

8 hours ago, buonassi said:

 

...You can observe this by pressing play on an album in Tidal and waiting for the buffering into RAM to halt.  Then skip tracks forward.  After a skipping one or two, you'll find a song that still hasn't finished loading (confirmed visually with the play control bar).  It'll go from 1/3 or so gray to fully gray.  This is best observed if you're doing upsampling, otherwise it happens so darn quick you may not see it.  

 

I have noticed this unintentionally as I was sampling an album. This sort of forward skipping plays havoc, for some reason, with my networked mac mini/A+ 3.2.7, ultraRendu and DirectStream DAC. 

The DirectStream DAC eventually locks up and only a rear panel power cycle and initialization gets things unlocked.

 

I left it at the default value (13K MB) and was wondering if I should decrease it.

[copy_of_a]

20 hours ago, jimdukey said:

It IS an A+ Problem, as it doesn't affect HQ.

I think you are really looking at the issue from the wrong side ... and the debate about Direct Mode is really fruitless.

 

Apple once broke integer mode (was this on Leopard?).

To keep integer mode running back then Damien designed his own Audio Driver (utilized when "Direct Mode" is enabled).

Later Apple re-enabled integer mode (Snow Leopard?) Since then you can regard "Direct Mode" as an additional option that is only and exclusively available with Audirvana (of course, since it's based on Damien's own Audio Driver).

 

Without "Direct Mode" Audirvana utilzes integer mode just as any other audiophile software (including HQPlayer)... in conjunction with hog mode and playback from RAM.

 

You should regard "Direct Mode" as an option that once has been made availabe to overcome the shortcomings of a certain OS X version but not as an option that is essential for audiophile playback with Audirvana.

[Jud]

23 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

It's not an Apple issue either. Damien was doing something Apple specifically warned against and it bit Damien in the butt. The "blame" lies squarely with Damien.

 

If you could find me the documentation from Apple warning against this at the time Damien did it, I'd be grateful.

[Jud]

On 5/15/2018 at 10:01 AM, jimdukey said:

"no one will notice it is not there anymore"

That doesn't work for me.

Direct Mode was offered as an enhancement to the sound of A+, now it's gone, for most of us.

To me, that's a step backwards, and I won't ignore it.

98% of A+ isn't good enough when I used to have 100%.

And who is to say it makes only a .5% - 2% difference as some claimed?

I don't know how he can sell the product under the circumstances.

I will get the new version if it eliminates the problem.

otherwise I'll stay with HQ.

Almost as good isn't.

And you have the Patch, how can you then tell us that it's not really necessary?

 

You are really focused on complaining about something Damien provided that was taken away by changes in the OS, aren't you?

 

How exactly is Damien supposed to provide you what Apple now prohibits?  Please be specific about something that is actually possible.

 

If not, and you are dissatisfied with or unable to accomplish the various other options (streaming, patching), then the direction seems pretty obvious.

 

Edit: Ah, it seems you've decided to move forward.  Good.

[RunHomeSlow]

Since the clear explanation of copy_of_a i think we are all now waiting for the new A+ 3.5

Mac first, then PCs

[Jud]

4 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

You should regard "Direct Mode" as an option that once has been made availabe to overcome the shortcomings of a certain OS X version but not as an option that is essential for audiophile playback with Audirvana.

 

I always liked Direct Mode when directly connected.  The patch is available, working with OSs at least up through High Sierra, for those who would like.

 

Right now I'm utilizing streaming with a microRendu and enjoying the sound.

[matthias]

9 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I always liked Direct Mode when directly connected.  The patch is available, working with OSs at least up through High Sierra, for those who would like.

Right now I'm utilizing streaming with a microRendu and enjoying the sound.

 

Jud,

what does sound better?

 

Directly connected or streaming with the microRendu (I mean both with the same DAC).

Thanks

 

Matt

 

[diecaster]

40 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

If you could find me the documentation from Apple warning against this at the time Damien did it, I'd be grateful.

 

I am not going to look.....and I don’t have to. 

 

Apple constantly tells developers to not bypass published APIs as stuff “under the hood” is not only subject to change, but likely to change. 

 

Damien was not using published APIs.......

[Jud]

8 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Jud,

what does sound better?

 

Directly connected or streaming with the microRendu (I mean both with the same DAC).

Thanks

 

Matt

 

 

I fully expect this can vary among systems and people, so what I like may not make the same impression on you.

 

When I began streaming, I felt it was an improvement over a direct connection in my system.  But this was a general impression, not any sort of dedicated attempt to hear what was better (if either).

 

I've kept the streaming arrangement for a reason specific to me: With my preferred upsampling these days, the fan on my mid-2009 MacBook Pro tends to spin up, and when streaming I can close the door to the other room and not hear it.

 

I don't know whether this helps you at all, but that was my impression in my system at the time.