MQA is Vaporware

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33 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Aha,  so I guess if it delivers > 44.1k sampling rate it could be considered "Hi-Rez" despite the lossy nature and other mangling.?

I suppose that is what they are pushing.  I don't agree. 

 

I've seen one person say Hi-rez is best defined by any recording medium that records sound humans can't hear anyway.  So let us say anything over 48 khz would fit.  

 

MQA is lossy to some extent.  Undecoded it has less available bits than CD, and decoded it may sort of have one or two more than CD in order to pretend to be hi-rez in some sense.  Considering the aliasing involved I would not consider it hi-rez.  That pollutes the recording at frequencies humans can hear.  

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9 hours ago, adamdea said:

Sure there is a sound point underlying the MQA triangle- there is very little information on any recording which couldn’t be captured with noise shaped 16/96. 

Unfortunately BS is not interested in distributing noise shaped 16/96, which could be packed in 24/96 with the bottom 8 digits frozen and packed in a similar size flac container to MQA. 

It would have the same information content as pretty much any 24/96 file (and  pretty much any 24/192 either).

If you play back the 1st unfold does it not engage the rather lax filtering of MQA?

 

And yes, I'd prefer 96/16 FLAC. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Again, per Archimago:

 

"Objectively with the songs I examined, the software decoder works well to reconstruct what looks like the equivalent 24/96 download."

 

and

 

"Bottom line: TIDAL/MQA streaming does sound like the equivalent 24/96 downloads based on what I have heard and the test results"

 

https://archimago.blogspot.hk/2017/01/comparison-tidal-mqa-music-high.html

 

It's very easy to confirm yourself too. I used an audio capture app on Mac and Spek analyzer, for the Tidal album Magnificat, and purchased the album in 24/96 and DXD (all come from the DXD master).

Well I don't have Tidal.  My meager internet connection would be near saturated by Tidal streaming at least half of every day.  Part of the other half when I get higher speeds unfortunately is when I (and apparently everyone else in the area) is asleep.  

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1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

are you in a rural area and using a TV Dish or something?

Nope to both. 

 

Just in a weird area which has only pathetic outdated ATT DSL which is allegedly 6 mbps.  It'll hit 5 in the wee hours of the morning.  Earlier today it was nearly 1 mbps.  Nearly.  

 

I can go 2 miles in any direction and hit areas with good internet speeds.  I'm in the process of getting someone to let me share over some long range wireless gear.  But the area is hilly and wooded and that isn't as easy as you would think.  If the neighbors didn't mind a 90 foot tower in the front yard it would be easy.  Check out this if you could use such a thing.  These are pretty terrific. I've got a couple and they are as good as advertised. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV/ref=sr_1_5?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1528691205&sr=1-5&keywords=ubiquiti

 

I can get 20-25 mbps or better over cell service, but the data cost is too high.  

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1 hour ago, james45974 said:

Streaming is basically a no-go for me too.  I am stuck with a satellite internet connection here, not great for streaming.

 

The telcos are all about making things better for the haves than providing anything for the have not's!  I am not in a far out rural area but one mile and 12 potential customers within that mile is not enough for Spectrum (awful company) to extend their cable lines.  I am in a dead cell zone currently and I am hoping that there is some promise for service with 5G on the horizon.

If you can manage more or less line of sight, you could share a line with someone who has good internet.  Those devices I linked to earlier provide a good fast connection up to several miles.  A pair of them would be about $140.  They are not large being 10x14 inches.  

 

I'm also doubly lucky being in a cell phone near dead zone.  I can sometimes make a call.  Data is usually not possible.  I mounted a WeBoost cell phone booster on the side of the house.  This amplifies and rebroadcasts the signal indoors and amplifies my phone signal to talk back to the cell tower.  This way I get good connections and data speeds inside.  This works if you have a weak signal.  If you have a total lack of signal it won't work.  

 

This is the particular model I have though they make others.

 

https://www.amazon.com/weBoost-470101-Signal-Booster-Office/dp/B00RHMFQSA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1528740142&sr=8-3&keywords=weboost+470101

 

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1 hour ago, crenca said:

 

LOL.  In a way it is about trust - do they have any basic competency in the subject?  Audiphiledom is strange in that it attracts all sorts of experts (and they really are) in other fields that come in and are suddenly "reviewing" electronics and subjects such as MQA

I remember TAS bragging about their reviewing staff when it was still  4 times a year in small format.  They had something like 9 PhDs on the review staff of maybe 12 people.  Of course I don't think any were in science, math or physics.  And one of the other three, AHC, was a national security advisor to the govt.  

 

This lead to the curious experience during the first Iraq war of seeing your TAS leading reviewer on TV being consulted by the media about how the war was going.  

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8 hours ago, mansr said:

The name doesn't easily verb, though.

I just say DDG search. 

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So we are nearing 500 pages.  MQA is not really vapor ware as much as we wish it were.  It is of course not at all what it was claimed to be.  Ole Bob has outdone himself with the BS on MQA.  Most Questionable Authority, and he had a good rep he threw under the bus.  Bob, poor Bob should have stayed Robert. 

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4 minutes ago, Axial said:

 

It's not the name, it's the presentation to a scientific audio audience.

Over the years I've seen Bob give presentations or interviews where he was very scientific and in others be very much the listening ear audiophile.  He tailored his message for the audience.  So I referred to good ole Bob the audiophile as opposed to Robert the author of AES papers.  So yes sometimes it is the name.  With MQA he has tried doing both at once and it doesn't really work. 

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5 hours ago, mansr said:

What would be really funny would be if nobody turned up.

Need some publicity of this somehow.  Tell them audiophile interest was heavily compressed into a format that reduces audiophiles present by 100,000 to 1 using patented technology.  And so they shouldn't be worried about the one person who showed up to tell them that and ask some questions.  The resolution of 100,000 voices was fully bit perfectly conveyed in a lossy manner.  Hopefully with most of the loss coming on the MQA end.  

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2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Don't forget a lot of MQA on Onkyo is CD quality not hi-res.

Did you fall off the turnip truck yesterday?  MQA guarantees you know the feelings of the drug addled band and producers the moment they laid down the tracks in the studio with the mastering engineer.  It is beyond high res, its master quality dude.  Where have you been?  Even CD quality in MQA is somehow masterful.  It's like 14 ghz sample rates at 512 bit all in the same file space as MP3 or something.  

 

[esldude]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It just doesn't end. A new MQA sourced vinyl record is bing announced in Munich.

 

 

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE For More Information Contact Anthony Chiarella (201) 690-9006 [email protected]

 

BRINKMANN SETS NEW WORLD RECORD AT MUNICH 2019

--Brinkmann’s “Special 33” Double LP Spins Today! --

 

Munich, Germany—May 9, 2019: Munich High End 2019 will witness the demonstration of Brinkmann’s first LP Record, “Special 33,” in the Brinkmann Audio suite, Atrium 4.1, E108 Dr Matthias Lück, co-owner of Brinkmann Audio and Associate Producer of this album, will explain the history and manufacture of this exceptional recording.

 

Special 33 features the music of Jazz trio Blicher Hemmer Gadd, three virtuoso performers featuring American drummer Steve Gadd, hailed as one of the greatest studio drummers of all time. Matthias and his wife, Daniela, heard this group in early 2017 and were immediately inspired to produce an album of their music under the Brinkmann label.

 

Special 33 is, first and foremost, about great music. All music is recorded live and captures the electrifying live energy from four late-night shows at some of Europe’s best jazz clubs. Of the 10 tracks included in this double album, four have never been pressed on vinyl and one, mixed especially for this album, has never been released.

 

The extraordinary sound quality of Special 33 was achieved by remastering using MQA (Master Quality Authenticated) technology, then converting to analog using a Brinkmann Nyquist Mk II Streaming DAC directly driving the cutting machine. Remastering took place at Railroad Tracks Studios, Germany (www.railroad-tracks.de) which worked for EMI exclusively until 2013. Michael Blicher and Matthias Lück supervised the entire process to achieve the uncompromising sonics they demanded.

 

Cut using DMM (Direct Metal Mastering) with ORIGINAL Neumann VMS 82 Cutting Lathe and SX 84 recorders, Special 33 was pressed at Nordsø Records (nordsorecords.com), a Danish boutique pressing plant, using semi-automatic Newbilt pressing machines (newbilt-machinery.com). German vinyl was chosen for its superior sonic properties while Helmut specified 140gr as the ideal disc weight. Quality of the test pressing has been verified on a Balance turntable driving a full Brinkmann System, with a Bardo/10.0 used for quality control. Matthias will guide Munich High End visitors through the entire mastering, production and pressing process, which should prove fascinating to anyone who loves vinyl records

 

Published as a Limited Edition of 500 copies—33 of which were signed and numbered by Steve Gadd and the band for inclusion with our 33-1/3 Anniversary Balance—the entire production was sold-out to dealers and distributors in advance of release.

 

About Brinkmann Audio: Founded in 1985 by Helmut Brinkmann, Brinkmann Audio is one of the few companies to design and manufacture every source and electronic component in the audio playback chain. All Brinkmann Audio components are handcrafted in Germany from German-made parts and subassemblies. For more information, please contact Anthony Chiarella, Director, US Sales and Marketing [email protected]

 

About Blicher Hemmer Gadd: The legendary American drummer Steve Gadd has formed a band together with award-winning Danish saxophonist Michael Blicher and the amazing Hammond organ wizard, Dan Hemmer. Steve Gadd has played with the all the greatest superstars for more than 50 years. Michael Blicher who recently won 2 Danish Grammys composes most of the music for the band and his music is inspired by travels throughout the world. Dan Hemmer and the sound of his Hammond organ bind everything together. For more information visit blicherhemmergadd.com

 

About MQA: Using pioneering scientific research into how people hear, the MQA team has created a technology that captures the sound of the original studio performance. The master MQA file is fully authenticated and is small enough to stream, while also being backward compatible, so you can play MQA music on any device. MQA’s award-winning technology is licensed by labels, music services and hardware manufacturers worldwide and is certified by the RIAA. MQA is a UK-based private company. For more information visit www.mqa.co.uk

 

You'd think the least they could do is get Robert Stuart to sign it personally verifying the MQA'ness of it all.  

 

Let me see, maybe this is a good idea.  The record surface noise will likely hide all the aliasing from the MQA process.  And there is no telling how much money was saved sending compressed hirez digital files to the record plants instead of the full uncompressed 192 khz PCM.  Perfect fit for MQA.  

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1 hour ago, Paul R said:

snippage....
 Could be their stuff just sounds good to people, for whatever reason. It certainly seems to amaze people, at lest when they first hear it. snip....

MQA is out there making converts every day. I don't think many people are listening to this thread any longer. 

 

-Paul 

 

Where in the world is the data to support these ideas?  Amazes people...................when.............where?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

Hi Dennis - just going on the audiophiles I am meeting around here, in Denver, Cheyenne, and in SLC. They seem like they have been drugged or something with MQA. 

 

Now, realize that most of them seem to have little acquaintance with digital, and that may be just a regional thing. But it is startling to see the vitriol here mirrored as enthusiasm elsewhere. maybe it is just expectation bias in overdrive or something. 

 

Something ain't connecting brother. Or the virtual universe isn't connecting. Or something.  How about in your part of the physical country? 

 

-Paul

 

I've found 1 person who knows what it is.  Another that asked me about it.  Otherwise among people who might have at least expected to be familiar with it they haven't paid any attention to it or hadn't noticed or heard about it.  Two people thought it was like another movie format like an add on to Atmos or something.  

 

I've got some vitriol about it.  It seemed potentially DRM from the very beginning.  I read the patents and thought even so maybe it could bring something to the table.  Subtractive dither for instance (which we now know it doesn't and cannot use).  Then the published listening tests were knee-capped in a couple ways.  Why do that if you have the real improvements claimed?  Then despite all the promised capabilities that seemed beyond doing (and they assured us it would be done) they've done nothing of the kind.  So it is an attempt at licensing revenue, no benefit to the listener unless they happen to prefer some low level additions to the sound, and can't do what is promised.  

 

Given the technical examinations of it done here I wonder how you can think it is a benefit.  

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2 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

Oh, I think Apple is more than interested in hires music. They have been collecting hi-res music for years now. 

 

They just want want to do it in a way that puts them ahead of the rest of the pack, and that is a hard thing to do these days. Phono, for example, tanked when the cost factors increased. When and if the come out with hires, it will be something spectacular. Maybe they will buy MQA at fire sale prices and figure out how to do it right. 🤪

 

 

How can it be done right?  It was all smoke and mirrors.  

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10 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

Perhaps comments were disabled to make the blog smaller.

This gives me a great idea.  I'm sure Bob would allow commenting if it were implemented. 

 

Here is the idea:

People submit their comments.  But written words are imprecise with significant amounts of meaning blur.  So we implement Meaning Quality Assurance eXpression programming.  Algorithms will parse the submitted comments, compensate for Meaning blur, derive the true intent of the commenting person, and then post the cleaned up and improved commentary.  Everyone wins.  It prevents unfortunate misunderstandings, prevents unintended censure, and is not censoring.  It is just the reverse. 

 

So for instance someone comments:

I don't find MQA files always the better sounding version of recordings. 

 

MQAX algorithms correctly post the comment:

MQA does make recordings sound better.  

 

Notice there are fewer words involved.  The meaning is much more concise, precise and lacks any ambiguity that was in the original commentary. 

 

So many websites have articles or blogs that once took comments and they've done away with them.  A piece of software like MQAX could allow these outlets to implement comments once again with this technology.  I'm sure they'd be willing to pay a small fee, and surely everyone benefits form having their comments posted and posted with more clear and concise meanings.  

 

 

 

[esldude]

2 hours ago, Albrecht said:

Hello....

 

MQA is the veritable essence of USA consumerism. (I am not defending MQA,  - it is horrible). But MQA is very typical. As it goes also with this forum, - evidence is pushed back into the realm of cult-of-personality fascism. Hopefully,- you have just as much hostility towards Bank of America, General Dynamics, Goldman Sachs, etc. etc.

Actually I do have just the same kind of hostility toward everyone you list.  Imagine that.  More than I do for MQA in fact.  

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1 hour ago, Paul R said:

 

Some of the posters here display the same lacks. Why should we judge them differently? After all, if this is a journalistic publication, everyone needs to be held to journalistic standards.

 

If on the other hand, it is more of a pub discussion, then why should a journalist, in his off hours, not be allowed to express his opinion, however unpopular it may be?

 

It can be very confusing.  And the definition of journalist has changed significantly over the past few decades. Many people today accounted as journalists would not have been recognized as such a couple decades ago. 

 

I think that discussions of audio journalism belong in their own topic, and that they are being used here as a sort of distraction.

Come on Paul, your post is an attempt to muddy the water, and the water is otherwise very clear. 

 

I'd be convinced if a journalist expressed an off hours opinion perhaps.  When he parrots what we already know to be disinformation his employer is known to be engaged in then it only convinces me the lack of credibility is deeper than I may have expected. 

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15 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

..actually no it died with Judith Miller's fake Iraq WMD reporting 15 years ago. 

Well that is predated by the Gulf of Tonkin journalism in the Vietnam police action. 

 

Which is predated by William Randolph Hearst's and Josef Pulitzer's actions reporting on events prior to the Spanish-American war.  Somewhat ironic considering Hearst and Pulitzer are the people who caused the term "yellow journalism" to first be used.  Yet we have the Pulitzer awards for investigative journalism.  

 

I'm sure if one keeps looking those are predated by others.  

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36 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Let's go with delusional blowhard and lackey.  He denied the shill part tho.

I've got to take up for my friend Paul.  He is not anyone's lackey.  I wouldn't even call him a blowhard.  So there.  Maybe he's too much into the devil's advocate thing.  And he isn't Keanu Reeves. 

 

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13 minutes ago, FredericV said:

I can testify from the other side. Nobody asked me about MQA during the last 3 days in Marriot Munich at the Hifi Deluxe show.
The main question about this topic was surprisingly: is this hi-res (probably because they were amazed) and I always answered: no this is redbook ...

We know you are making this up.  No way would a watering hole for serious audiophiles like the Munich show result in so many golden eared people mistaking Redbook for hi-res.  You just think we'll swallow whatever tale you wish to tell us don't you?

 

🤪

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On 5/21/2019 at 12:42 PM, Rt66indierock said:

 

Good article

I think it is a very poor article.  For one thing it is about this privilege is everything bull crap.

 

Now I don't doubt the results.  Then again this would have seemed so self evident you feel like it was almost foolish to spend the effort studying it.  I suppose it doesn't hurt to confirm the obvious.  But is anyone surprised?   

 

News at 11, a scientific spectrum analysis of visible light indicates the sky is blue and grass is green as viewed by humans.  

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6 minutes ago, Archimago said:

 

LOL.

 

Actually, I'd pay good money to see Bob and @mansr have at it! Now that could be one heck of a show :-).

 

 

Yeah, +1 to this. 

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1 hour ago, Currawong said:

snip
 

Really, all this pissing on Bob (understandable as it may be) really doesn't help anything. How do you explain to someone who has no technical understanding why MQA is dubious?

 

snip

 

 

Well MQA is a big gob of crap.  Anywhere you touch it is like a smelly tar baby. 

 

I'd start with the fact it is not lossless. 

 

Next that it actually doesn't have the full dynamics of CD. 

 

That it has leaky filters that allow aliasing and imaging. 

 

That the provenance, authentication, etc. is simply a con job. 

 

The claim to retroactively determine what gear was used to compensate for it when they do nothing of the sort. 

 

The way that the high sample rates are a con completely past 96 khz and mostly even at 96 khz. 

 

That it isn't great at saving bandwidth as in fact 20 bit Flac could be smaller and of higher fidelity. 

 

That it could become effectively DRM.

 

There are some other things, but each of these can be rather in depth depending upon the technical knowledge of the person you are explaining it to.  It is already a rather long list for one thing called MQA.  An excellent example of baffling them with BS as a marketing strategy.  Make so many ridiculous claims you get rather involved debunking each of them and every aspect of it is a lie.  It will make people who don't know get that glazed over look before you get started good on all crap involved in being MQA. 

 

 

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Never mind.