MQA is Vaporware

[Rt66indierock]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

After a bit more research, it appears the version actually sent to the player depends on the quality settings in the apps, but the album will always say Master. Ha! There's nothing like streaming a lossy MP3 while looking at the album that says Master. No market confusion at all with this one. 

 

To get the pure PCM version you have to select HiFi and stream the MQA version? Makes no sense. I wonder if this is the pure PCM version of just the un-unfolded MQA version. 

 

Project Panther Bidco to me, Tidal to you has a troublesome history with numbers and doing things right. Why wouldn't they consider manipulation of end user access?  

 

7digital said today they will need at least 4.5 million more pounds or they will go into receivership. Stock analysts seem to have soured on RealNetworks (Napster). Napster is a big drag on resources with its debt. These are the backrooms that run streaming services and online digital download stores.

 

So lets review how do you listen to MQA? Downloads are available from Highres Audio, Onkyo and Nugs.net. Sorry 2L you don't distribute your music anymore. Moving to streaming Deezer has licensed MQA but never made MQA files available, Nugs.net doesn't  seem to stream MQA and Tidal's MQA catalog is too small to matter.

 

Expect more of this. The people promoting high resolution audio are fighting a two front war. The last 20 years have shown people don't care about high resolution audio. And now they have to defend their assertion high resolution audio is better. They don't have time to make a case for MQA. Manipulating things may be one of the few options left for MQA supporters. 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

3 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Project Panther Bidco to me, Tidal to you has a troublesome history with numbers and doing things right. Why wouldn't they consider manipulation of end user access?  

 

7digital said today they will need at least 4.5 million more pounds or they will go into receivership. Stock analysts seem to have soured on RealNetworks (Napster). Napster is a big drag on resources with its debt. These are the backrooms that run streaming services and online digital download stores.

 

So lets review how do you listen to MQA? Downloads are available from Highres Audio, Onkyo and Nugs.net. Sorry 2L you don't distribute your music anymore. Moving to streaming Deezer has licensed MQA but never made MQA files available, Nugs.net doesn't  seem to stream MQA and Tidal's MQA catalog is too small to matter.

 

Expect more of this. The people promoting high resolution audio are fighting a two front war. The last 20 years have shown people don't care about high resolution audio. And now they have to defend their assertion high resolution audio is better. They don't have time to make a case for MQA. Manipulating things may be one of the few options left for MQA supporters. 

Downloads are also available at ProStudioMasters In fact, they may have the largest inventory. Absolutely no doubt most of them were batch converted via the MQA sausage maker. 

[Rt66indierock]

14 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Downloads are also available at ProStudioMasters In fact, they may have the largest inventory. Absolutely no doubt most of them were batch converted via the MQA sausage maker. 

 

Don't tell MQA Ltd they aren't on their site as a partner.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Don't tell MQA Ltd they aren't on their site as a partner.

I have no doubt PSM and HRA don't have any direct dealings with MQA. 

 

I would bet a few shekels that PSM gets a data dump from the labels with MQA and non MQA files and their contract probably stipulates they have to sell both. If you go on PSM, you select your desired version via  drop down menu.  And btw, there seems to be no way to search for MQA albums.

 

The are also the only vendor I am aware of that sell 96 kHz MQA, and even "192" MQA. All other sell or stream 24/44.1 or 24/48.

[mansr]

7 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

The are also the only vendor I am aware of that sell 96 kHz MQA, and even "192" MQA.

What now? I know the MQA format can be used at any sample rate, but I didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to do that.

[firedog]

19 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

After a bit more research, it appears the version actually sent to the player depends on the quality settings in the apps, but the album will always says Master. Ha! There's nothing like streaming a lossy MP3 while looking at the album that says Master. No market confusion at all with this one. 

 

To get the pure PCM version you have to select HiFi and stream the MQA version? Makes no sense. I wonder if this is the pure PCM version or just the un-unfolded MQA version. 

Actually, that may be bad for MQA. If you listen to an mp3 labelled "master" and  it sounds no better than other mp3 music you stream, maybe you will think there is zero reason to ever sign up for the pricier tier with MQA.

[MikeyFresh]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

What now? I know the MQA format can be used at any sample rate, but I didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to do that.

 

They are, and they think buyers are stupid enough to want to pay $10 more for it than the 24/96 source transfer:

 

 

 

[mansr]

1 hour ago, MikeyFresh said:

They are, and they think buyers are stupid enough to want to pay $10 more for it than the 24/96 source transfer:

 

Doesn't that simply mean it's a normal MQA distributed as 48/24 with metadata indicating a 192 kHz original?

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

9 minutes ago, mansr said:

Doesn't that simply mean it's a normal MQA distributed as 48/24 with metadata indicating a 192 kHz original?

That does not seem clear to me...in fact HRA sells and lists MQA at the folded down sample rate...not what it unfolds to, in the spirit of full transparency. 

 

This begs a question. Why would ANYBODY want to BUY an MQA file, as oppose to stream it.

[MikeyFresh]

20 minutes ago, mansr said:

Doesn't that simply mean it's a normal MQA distributed as 48/24 with metadata indicating a 192 kHz original?

Good question, and I'd guess it's as Slap suggested earlier, they just take what the label sends them and ask no questions.

 

11 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

This begs a question. Why would ANYBODY want to BUY an MQA file, as oppose to stream it.

Another great question, I thought the whole idea was supposed bandwidth savings conducive to streaming? And oh by the way... the entire world is now ready to pay dearly for premium tier lossless streaming, right? If so, then who exactly is buying these MQA downloads?

 

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

That does not seem clear to me...in fact HRA sells and lists MQA at the folded down sample rate...not what it unfolds to, in the spirit of full transparency.

Huh? HRA only mentions MQA with no further qualifiers.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

48 minutes ago, mansr said:

Huh? HRA only mentions MQA with no further qualifiers.

yes, I see you are correct about that. but I believe this was not always the case...

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

This begs a question. Why would ANYBODY want to BUY an MQA file, as oppose to stream it.

 

A better question is anybody buying MQA files? According to Similarweb last month Pro Studio Masters visits were 312K, Hi Res Audio 265k, Onkyo Music 100+k and Nugs.net 400+k. These stats look like a very effective boycott of high resolution music in general and MQA specifically.

[MikeyFresh]

51 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

A better question is anybody buying MQA files?

I would imagine no, not at $39 per album as in the ProStudioMasters example above.

[sandyk]

6 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

A better question is anybody buying MQA files? According to Similarweb last month Pro Studio Masters visits were 312K, Hi Res Audio 265k, Onkyo Music 100+k and Nugs.net 400+k. These stats look like a very effective boycott of high resolution music in general and MQA specifically.

 Let's hope that it stays this way.

Probably a bit far fetched, but any marked success in this area could possibly result in them also  turning their attention to DSD64 etc.  conversions to 192 MQA , and claim very high quality with vastly reduced bandwidth requirements for streaming .

[Rt66indierock]

9 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Let's hope that it stays this way.

Probably a bit far fetched, but any marked success in this area could possibly result in them also  turning their attention to DSD64 etc.  conversions to 192 MQA , and claim very high quality with vastly reduced bandwidth requirements for streaming .

 

If you look at people who pay to stream music in 2019 you will find CD quality and higher is failing to reach 1% market share. Then go to hi-res download sites and I'm having having a hard time finding 3 million views per month on their websites. 

 

Alex, if I'd stood up at t.h.e. Show in 2016 and said I want a worldwide boycott of all high resolution music, I could claim success at RMAF 19. 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

41 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Let's hope that it stays this way.

Probably a bit far fetched, but any marked success in this area could possibly result in them also  turning their attention to DSD64 etc.  conversions to 192 MQA , and claim very high quality with vastly reduced bandwidth requirements for streaming .

since MQA craps out at 96 Khz, they can make any claim they want. 

[sandyk]

20 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

since MQA craps out at 96 Khz, they can make any claim they want. 

 

 Good. That leaves less for the greedy buggers to muck up for future generations !

 Even a smart E.E like John Dyson would have major problems trying to correct far worse damage than  the lack of appropriate Dolby correction to many earlier recordings. Let's hope that they ensure that the original Master  recordings are safely archived and not just left to "rot" until it's too late for restoration/recovery.

[Rt66indierock]

4 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Let's hope that they ensure that the original Master  recordings are safely archived and not just left to "rot" until it's too late for restoration/recovery.

 

Dream on the Universal situation is getting worse by the day. And Iron Mountain's storage leaves a lot to be desired. Too late was along time ago.

[sandyk]

30 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Dream on the Universal situation is getting worse by the day. And Iron Mountain's storage leaves a lot to be desired. Too late was along time ago.

 Hi Stephen

 It was meant to be a bit " tongue in check"

Even major Public Libraries look after their archived material ( including Optical) better.

 Regards

Alex

[Paul R]

4 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

If you look at people who pay to stream music in 2019 you will find CD quality and higher is failing to reach 1% market share. Then go to hi-res download sites and I'm having having a hard time finding 3 million views per month on their websites. 

 

Alex, if I'd stood up at t.h.e. Show in 2016 and said I want a worldwide boycott of all high resolution music, I could claim success at RMAF 19. 

 

How is this any different from any other niche market? The trick is opening a niche market without excessive cost to market. The only market I see this happening in at all is satellite radio and similar services. Sirius XM for example, is both expensive and has lousy sound. Can MQA improve on that sound? Is Pandora the MQA gateway for satellite radio? 

 

Still, you might want to also consider Blu-ray and HD video streaming. This market is a far larger audio hi-res market, one Meridian already has a very strong presence in. Another niche market of course, but a very lucrative one. 

 

I am just playing devil’s advocate here a bit. I am not convinced MQA requires a mass audience to survive and thrive now. Just access to an economically enabled subscription base who would (mostly) appreciate better sound. Remember, this is the same subscription base that believes Bose is high end. 

[firedog]

5 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Dream on the Universal situation is getting worse by the day. And Iron Mountain's storage leaves a lot to be desired. Too late was along time ago.

Thank G-d Abbey Road/EMI took good care of all those Beatles tapes and also archived them at  192.  Their only failing was not seeing any reason to save individual multi-tracks instead of just "bounce downs" on some of the earlier albums. But no one saw any reason for that back then. 

[lucretius]

2 hours ago, Paul R said:

Remember, this is the same subscription base that believes Bose is high end. 

 

Tongue-in-cheek?

[esldude]

4 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

How is this any different from any other niche market? The trick is opening a niche market without excessive cost to market. The only market I see this happening in at all is satellite radio and similar services. Sirius XM for example, is both expensive and has lousy sound. Can MQA improve on that sound? Is Pandora the MQA gateway for satellite radio? 

 

Still, you might want to also consider Blu-ray and HD video streaming. This market is a far larger audio hi-res market, one Meridian already has a very strong presence in. Another niche market of course, but a very lucrative one. 

 

I am just playing devil’s advocate here a bit. I am not convinced MQA requires a mass audience to survive and thrive now. Just access to an economically enabled subscription base who would (mostly) appreciate better sound. Remember, this is the same subscription base that believes Bose is high end. 

I think you'll find streaming HD video is using the OPUS codec much of the time and will be doing so more often in the near future.  MQA isn't showing up in that niche.  

 

Have no idea about Sirius or how many people it reaches.  They get my prize for worst compressed audio.  It quickly gives me a headache on talk channels.  Music is truly a terrible experience.  As someone who likes music if my choices are silence or music via Sirius, give me silence PLEASE.

[mav52]

4 hours ago, esldude said:

I think you'll find streaming HD video is using the OPUS codec much of the time and will be doing so more often in the near future.  MQA isn't showing up in that niche.  

 

Have no idea about Sirius or how many people it reaches.  They get my prize for worst compressed audio.  It quickly gives me a headache on talk channels.  Music is truly a terrible experience.  As someone who likes music if my choices are silence or music via Sirius, give me silence PLEASE.

Sirius notes at the start of 2019, 34 million subscribers.  And it appears Sirius bought Pandora . It appears they are doing something right. http://investor.siriusxm.com/investor-overview/press-releases/press-release-details/2019/SiriusXM-Beats-2018-Subscriber-Guidance-and-Issues-2019-Guidance/default.aspx