MQA is Vaporware

[firedog]

2 hours ago, daverich4 said:

 

Boy, I hope not. I regularly use Tidal to decide if I want to buy something and for me it’s integration into Roon works really well. 

Qobuz does both just as well

[daverich4]

3 hours ago, mansr said:

Spotify works just as well for that purpose.

 

But not with Roon. I add music I think I might be interested in to my Roon library and leave it there for a while. After living with it for a while I buy it if I like it enough to do so and if not, I delete it from my library.

[daverich4]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

Qobuz does both just as well

 

Just out of curiosity, what’s the big knock on Tidal by so many here? MQA? Most of the time I find out about new music by reading about it and I’ve saved myself a ton of money by not buying music it turns out I don’t care for. 

[Rt66indierock]

10 hours ago, Daccord said:

 

I don't understand the schadenfreude. I am firmly in the anti-MQA camp, but in Canada 7digital is the only place I can consistently find redbook downloads and Tidal is the only lossless streaming service that actually works. I'll be sad to see either of them go.

 

I'm reporting what 7digital announced April 11th. If they don't get material additional funding they will go out of business. On June 7th they reported revenue for the first six months will be down compared to last year. 

 

As for Project Panther Bidco to me and Tidal to you, Jay Z has put everything but Reasonable Doubt on Apple Music. A hedging move. The auditor's opinion notes without additional funding the companies ability to continue is in doubt. Right now Jay Z needs a valuation of $100 million dollars to have a net worth of $1 billion dollars. I've been reporting Tidal financial problems since June of 2017.  It is an interesting juggle between valuation and financial results.

 

I actually hoped 7digital would succeed everywhere but with MQA but the old business model didn't work and I have to wonder about the new one.

 

As for Tidal, I believe based on research by McKinsey & Co in a digital marketplace there are only winners. What has Tidal done to gain market share? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

7 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, what’s the big knock on Tidal by so many here? MQA? Most of the time I find out about new music by reading about it and I’ve saved myself a ton of money by not buying music it turns out I don’t care for. 

 

They gave the audio press free subscriptions.

[daverich4]

2 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

They gave the audio press free subscriptions.

 

???  How does that affect my use of it?

[Rt66indierock]

19 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

 

???  How does that affect my use of it?

 

Would you have heard of Tidal without the audio press pushing it? 

[firedog]

35 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, what’s the big knock on Tidal by so many here? MQA? Most of the time I find out about new music by reading about it and I’ve saved myself a ton of money by not buying music it turns out I don’t care for. 

Some people don't like the MQA thing, others don't like the push of hip hop and similar music. Qobuz has non MQA hi-res. Some prefer the jazz and classical catalog of Qobuz. 

[daverich4]

20 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Would you have heard of Tidal without the audio press pushing it? 

 

Yes, that isn't where I found out about it. I read about it when Jay-Z bought it. In any event, I find out all kinds of things by reading about them in the audio press. Why is that something bad?

[daverich4]

21 minutes ago, firedog said:

Some people don't like the MQA thing, others don't like the push of hip hop and similar music. Qobuz has non MQA hi-res. Some prefer the jazz and classical catalog of Qobuz. 

 

This will probably get me run out of this site on a rail but I don't hear anything good or bad with MQA. So if something I'm listening to on Tidal is in MQA, then it is. If it isn't in MQA, then it isn't. Soundwise, it doesn't seem to make any difference to my ears so I just ignore it. I don't have to deal with the push of hip hop because I find music on Tidal by specifically searching for it from Roon. As far as non-MQA hi-res, even if I heard a difference between MQA and non that isn't the way I use Tidal (or would use Qobuz). I don't stream to listen to it, I stream to find out if I like it. If I do, I buy it. In hi-res if available, Redbook if not. Lastly, Tidal seems to have the type of music I listen to and it works really well with Roon. It sounds like it might go out of business and if it does I guess I'll switch to Qobuz. But not until I have to.

[tmtomh]

14 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

 

This will probably get me run out of this site on a rail but I don't hear anything good or bad with MQA. So if something I'm listening to on Tidal is in MQA, then it is. If it isn't in MQA, then it isn't. Soundwise, it doesn't seem to make any difference to my ears so I just ignore it. I don't have to deal with the push of hip hop because I find music on Tidal by specifically searching for it from Roon. As far as non-MQA hi-res, even if I heard a difference between MQA and non that isn't the way I use Tidal (or would use Qobuz). I don't stream to listen to it, I stream to find out if I like it. If I do, I buy it. In hi-res if available, Redbook if not. Lastly, Tidal seems to have the type of music I listen to and it works really well with Roon. It sounds like it might go out of business and if it does I guess I'll switch to Qobuz. But not until I have to.

 

As someone who's strongly anti-MQA, I have zero problem with what you say here. Much of MQA's lossiness is in the area of ultrasonic frequencies, and the rest of the damage it does to the source material is in the 16th (15th?) bit. I don't like any of that in principle, but I have zero problem believing that MQA's effects could be inaudible for either the better or the worse in many, many listening situations. Even if MQA makes 24-bit files into 17-bit files, and even if it mangles the ultrasonics, and even if makes 16-bit signals into 15-bit ones, you're still dealing with a noise floor of 90dB or more, and you're still dealing with DA conversion in the 20Hz-20kHz range that is 99.9+% the same whether it's MQA or PCM.

 

So while I believe some folks can hear differences, I also believe others can't - and I believe that the same people might or might not hear any difference depending on equipment, source material, listening volume, room, and so on.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Would you have heard of Tidal without the audio press pushing it? 

Yes, to be fair I actually heard about in the mainstream press. And I first heard it a t dealer. I had noticed the audio press mention Tidal at all until MQA came in to the picture.

 

And if it was Deezer, or Spotify that decided to go with MQA, they would rode with that.

 

There actually was a pre MQA Tidal.

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, daverich4 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, what’s the big knock on Tidal by so many here? MQA? Most of the time I find out about new music by reading about it and I’ve saved myself a ton of money by not buying music it turns out I don’t care for. 

 

With some folks here, I expect it is Tidal’s advocacy for MQA. With me, it is a dislike for the owners. 

[Rt66indierock]

39 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

 

This will probably get me run out of this site on a rail but I don't hear anything good or bad with MQA. So if something I'm listening to on Tidal is in MQA, then it is. If it isn't in MQA, then it isn't. Soundwise, it doesn't seem to make any difference to my ears so I just ignore it. I don't have to deal with the push of hip hop because I find music on Tidal by specifically searching for it from Roon. As far as non-MQA hi-res, even if I heard a difference between MQA and non that isn't the way I use Tidal (or would use Qobuz). I don't stream to listen to it, I stream to find out if I like it. If I do, I buy it. In hi-res if available, Redbook if not. Lastly, Tidal seems to have the type of music I listen to and it works really well with Roon. It sounds like it might go out of business and if it does I guess I'll switch to Qobuz. But not until I have to.

 

One of my main points is MQA isn't better as a format. There is good and bad but mostly there is no difference if you volume match. You are safe.

 

The only person I've ridden out of town on a rail was Lee Scoggins. I listen carefully to what one of his former employers McKinsey  & Co says about digital business, he didn't. And I have little patience for someone who worked on Wall Street and doesn't understand consolidated financial statements.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

One of my main points is MQA isn't better as a format. There is good and bad but mostly there is no difference if you volume match. You are safe.

 

The only person I've ridden out of town on a rail was Lee Scoggins. I listen carefully to what one of his former employers McKinsey  & Co says about digital business, he didn't. And I have little patience for someone who worked on Wall Street and doesn't understand consolidated financial statements.

Do you find interesting that he has been utterly silent about MQA on any other forum, including Hoffman where he was a major advocate? In fact he posted recently he likes Qobuz better than Tidal in many respects. I think there is a very deep dark back story to his MQA evangelism. Just my opinion btw.

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, daverich4 said:

 

Yes, that isn't where I found out about it. I read about it when Jay-Z bought it. In any event, I find out all kinds of things by reading about them in the audio press. Why is that something bad?

 

I use the Daily Audiophile as my front end to access audio sites. Do I need to post a picture of sheep to reinforce the herd mentality of the audio press?

[Rt66indierock]

19 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Do you find interesting that he has been utterly silent about MQA on any other forum, including Hoffman where he was a major advocate? In fact he posted recently he likes Qobuz better than Tidal in many respects. I think there is a very deep dark back story to his MQA evangelism. Just my opinion btw.

 

There are some people you want on the other side, Lee is one of them. I'm not particularly interested in what he does. Or that JVS told me he didn't receive any compensation from MQA Ltd at t.h.e. Show in Long Beach. Now the rumor I heard that ESPN was licensing MQA is interesting.

[daverich4]

38 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I use the Daily Audiophile as my front end to access audio sites. Do I need to post a picture of sheep to reinforce the herd mentality of the audio press?

 

I have no idea what you’re blathering on about. I didn’t find out about Tidal from Stereophile or TAS. I do find out about other things from them, mostly suggested music to listen to but sometimes equipment. No sheep involved. 

[Jud]

2 hours ago, daverich4 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, what’s the big knock on Tidal by so many here? MQA? Most of the time I find out about new music by reading about it and I’ve saved myself a ton of money by not buying music it turns out I don’t care for. 

 

For me personally, my preference for Qobuz came down to 3 things: (1) Subjectively, I felt the sound quality was better. (2) Tidal's catalog wasn't so extensive for many of the relatively lesser-selling artists and genres that I like that it saved me a lot of money on new music, or more important, turned me on to a lot of great new artists. (3) Yeah, the MQA thing. I don't like the idea of adding to the stat sheet of a company so associated with MQA.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

Now the rumor I heard that ESPN was licensing MQA is interesting.

Will that make my team score more goals?

[rickca]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

Now the rumor I heard that ESPN was licensing MQA is interesting.

Why would ESPN be interested in MQA?  I don't get it.

[Sonicularity]

13 minutes ago, rickca said:

Why would ESPN be interested in MQA?  I don't get it.

 

Just a quick search and I see that Disney owns 80% of ESPN, and the Disney Music Group is part of the Music Business Association.

 

The Disney Music Group includes record labels that are distributed by Universal Music Group, Warner Music Group, and Polydor Records depending on the region.

 

There are connections and board members that golf and dine together.

[Rt66indierock]

24 minutes ago, mansr said:

Will that make my team score more goals?

 

When I heard the rumor I said sounds like an own goal. But I may have rattled the Mytek guy by asking about NDA's and their ADC.

[lucretius]

29 minutes ago, mansr said:

Will that make my team score more goals?

 

Well maybe MQA will prevent smear attacks.

[Rt66indierock]

12 minutes ago, Sonicularity said:

 

Just a quick search and I see that Disney owns 80% of ESPN, and the Disney Music Group is part of the Music Business Association.

 

The Disney Music Group includes record labels that are distributed by Universal Music Group, Warner Music Group, and Polydor Records depending on the region.

 

There are connections and board members that golf and dine together.

 

When the easiest solution is the the person who told me is not informed, go with that.