MQA is Vaporware

[firedog]

2 hours ago, Archimago said:

Perhaps PV is a lost cause... But maybe we might still see JA(1&2), or RH come around at some point and admit that MQA is not worth having, that their over-enthusiastic stance from the beginning was misplaced. We all make mistakes but in this world where we see and hear all kinds of misinformation and disinformation, "the truth" is often a rare commodity. PV can stay in his delusional private chat group (come on Peter - take courage and be a man!).

Very doubtful it will ever happen. 

Maybe if it goes belly-up and isn't available anymore, they will. But still doubtful; they will probably blame people like us for killing it and not giving it a chance.

[MikeyFresh]

9 hours ago, Archimago said:

I think more importantly after all this time, it would be nice to see a formal retraction from the mainstream audiophile "press"; something from the "journalists" out there who might have come to their senses by now? I think that would be helpful for the audiophile hobby, and a sign of integrity.

 

LONG overdue, and easy enough to have done at various junctures, but somehow that never happened despite the face saving opportunity it would have provided.  I fear that ARQ's recent investigation/comparison of the Clique! album in various formats on this very forum and his personal conclusions there might be about as close as we'll ever come to something like a formal retraction.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a candid follow-up piece on MQA by the likes of Paul Miller and Hi-Fi News, and how that might rattle the cage a bit at sister publication Stereophile.

[Rt66indierock]

Block Inc had their Q4 22 earnings call yesterday Other Revenue (Tidal) was $38 million. A decline of $16 million from Q3 22.

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 hours ago, Archimago said:

I think more importantly after all this time, it would be nice to see a formal retraction from the mainstream audiophile "press"; something from the "journalists" out there who might have come to their senses by now? I think that would be helpful for the audiophile hobby, and a sign of integrity.

That would be like a hostage video. 

[Apollo]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

Block Inc had their Q4 22 earnings call yesterday Other Revenue (Tidal) was $38 million. A decline of $16 million from Q3 22.

Does this mean Tidal is actually making profit?

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

Block Inc had their Q4 22 earnings call yesterday Other Revenue (Tidal) was $38 million. A decline of $16 million from Q3 22.

 

1 minute ago, Apollo said:

Does this mean Tidal is actually making profit?

 

Perhaps we should make sure we are talking about the right terms. 

 

[Rt66indierock]

40 minutes ago, Apollo said:

Does this mean Tidal is actually making profit?

 

No it means Tidal is losing advertising or subscribers. And is slipping away unless they can convince more people to subscribe.

[DuckToller]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

No it means Tidal is losing advertising or subscribers. And is slipping away unless they can convince more people to subscribe.

I would guess reality just bites:
With all efforts of their growth strategy not being neutral to the balance sheet, the basic operational cost may not have declined by 30 percent as the revenues did. Losing market shares/revenues in a growth market (almost 10% CAGR estimated until 2027) feels like sending a death certificate ...

[Archimago]

23 hours ago, DuckToller said:

I would guess reality just bites:
With all efforts of their growth strategy not being neutral to the balance sheet, the basic operational cost may not have declined by 30 percent as the revenues did. Losing market shares/revenues in a growth market (almost 10% CAGR estimated until 2027) feels like sending a death certificate ...

 

Well said.

 

As a Canadian Roon user (still waiting for what Qobuz is actually going to do here in Canada), I do hope Tidal stays afloat  even though I cannot support MQA. I wonder if they are somehow contracted to use MQA and basically going down with the ship in a small part at least given all the (deserved) negative MQA publicity which poisons interest in the HiFi+ tier, and spills over to the HiFi tier. And in the big picture just uncompetitive with their current tiers in a tough market.

 

 

I've tried Tidal and I think it's quite a good service with pretty decent apps and good multiplatform coverage. I'd happily dump Spotify to go Tidal if they stopped MQA support (as a matter of principle, especially the MQA-CD abomination!) and added more multichannel/Atmos content.

 

A simple, single HiFi tier with lossless 16/44 or 16/48, and lossy multichannel at a competitive $10/m would be awesome I think, and might save them on operation costs (bandwidth, storage) not streaming that wasteful MQA data. Presumably they're also paying MQA to use the codec?

 

[Confused]

Some news (well, trivia maybe) from the UK.

 

This weekend it is the Bristol Hi-Fi show.

 

Organised by UK AV dealer chain audio-T in association with (notorious MQA shrills and Tidal promoter) What H-Fi.

 

 

 

And the "Official Music Streaming Service" for the show is:

 

You guessed it (or not?), Qobuz:

 

 

Maybe there is some hope, make of it what you will.

[Cebolla]

20 hours ago, Archimago said:

I do hope Tidal stays afloat  even though I cannot support MQA. I wonder if they are somehow contracted to use MQA and basically going down with the ship in a small part at least given all the (deserved) negative MQA publicity which poisons interest in the HiFi+ tier, and spills over to the HiFi tier.

 

Of course it's the MQA tracks themselves, not just their negative publicity that spill over to TIDAL's HiFi tier, should you happen to to select the ones marked as 'MASTER' for playback. You get the additional horror of any hi-res ones being passed through a 16bit/44.1kHz mangle, not just the original MQA-CD tracks 'for free'!

[botrytis]

https://store.hiby.com/products/hiby-r6-gen-iii

 

16X MQA unfolding? What nonsense.....

[Currawong]

2 hours ago, botrytis said:

https://store.hiby.com/products/hiby-r6-gen-iii

 

16X MQA unfolding? What nonsense.....

The DAP market in Asia has always been insane. First, it was Astell&Kern that came out with the awful 2.5mm balanced headphone connector, even though it isn't a standard, and most of the plugs available were slightly the wrong length compared to the sockets... that meant that to even sell a portable audio device in Asia, you HAVE to have a balanced output, even though the benefits are essentially zero. Ironically, A&K's flagship DAPs both measured and sounded just as good from the 3.5mm output as the 2.5mm.  There's also a mod for the Chord Mojo which gives it a balanced output, but the SQ is, not surprisingly, worse. 

 

MQA is just a repeat of the same kind of nonsense -- you have to have it in your audio gear or people wont even consider it. This is the same market where people will buy half-a-dozen expensive cables just to get the right synergistic match with their IEMs and DAP.

 

If TIDAL is fading out though, it'll burn out eventually as new FADs come through. I'm sure that the MQA BT codec is just to try and capture more money from Asia before it finally burns out.

 

[FredericV]

14 hours ago, botrytis said:

https://store.hiby.com/products/hiby-r6-gen-iii

 

16X MQA unfolding? What nonsense.....

That's just upsampling to 705,6k or 768k from the band limited output of MQA's first unfold, which is like 17/88.2 or 17/96 of actual entropy, with fake resolution indication to make believe that the upsampled MQA core decode is the same as the original sample rate.

[The Computer Audiophile]

PSB Speakers, Sonical and MQA announce partnership to create next-generation headphones 

 

The first in new category of smart, mobile and true hifi audio products

Tuesday, Febraury 28, 2023, Pickering, Canada– PSB Speakers, together with hearables start-up Sonical and audio specialists MQA, announced a partnership that will define a new category of high-resolution audio headphones. The product combines high resolution wireless transmission, proven high-fidelity design, and Sonical’s CosmOS platform. Released under the PSB Speakers brand by Q1 2024, it will be the first headphone to feature Sonical’s ear computing platform, enabling a variety of apps and software upgrades. It also includes MQA’s latest technology, SCL6, the most advanced codec for adaptive, high-resolution audio streaming.

 

CosmOS is Sonical’s revolutionary operating system that runs on powerful low wattage processing cores, bringing unprecedented levels of connectivity and computational power to headphones. CosmOS offers mobile audio product manufacturers the versatility to keep pace with rapidly changing consumer demands for convenience and performance. The integration of Qorvo’s Ultra-wideband (UWB) radio technology enables a superior audio experience thanks to UWB’s higher data rate and extremely low latency. Using Antennaware’s UWB antenna directly addresses any issues associated with Body Blocking which could occur with wireless wearable devices. 

 

Canada-based PSB Speakers, a pioneer in psychoacoustics and an early brand to create audiophile grade wireless headphones, will innovate through deep relationships with Sonical and MQA to push the boundaries of mobile listening. The product will utilize MQA’s new technology, SCL6, an innovative, time domain-based codec for the highest quality audio streaming. Developed by industry veteran and MQA founder, Bob Stuart, SCL6 ensures high-resolution sound even at low data rates.

 

“Given PSB Speakers’ long-time commitment to the science of audio and music listening, it’s a pleasure to be in this partnership which shows the world what CosmOS can do,” says Gary Spittle, Founder and CEO of Sonical.

 

“Our use of the CosmOS platform to make the world’s first software defined wireless headset and the inclusion of MQA’s adaptive wireless codec helps set a new benchmark for a high resolution, mobile high-fidelity product. We believe this product underscores what Paul Barton and the PSB team have accomplished over the brand’s 50-year history in the pursuit of audio excellence for listeners at home and now on the move,” says Gordon Simmonds, President and CEO of Lenbrook Industries, PSB Speakers’ parent company.

 

“MQA was founded by one of the great innovators in audio. We design by thinking of the consumer experience first which means we are comfortable challenging the status quo. The vision shared by our partners at PSB Speakers and Sonical, bringing together superior audio quality and the next generation of consumer convenience, makes this a perfect fit for our latest technology SCL6,” says Mike Jbara, CEO of MQA.

[Axiom05]

Why won't they just rollover and die?!

[sphinxsix]

13 minutes ago, Axiom05 said:

Why won't they just rollover and die?!

 

MQA is like Rasputin.

 

Rasputin's Death

[jriver]

32 minutes ago, Axiom05 said:

Why won't they just rollover and die?!

I thought it died two or three years ago.  Nice of you all to keep the memory alive.

[MikeyFresh]

41 minutes ago, jriver said:

I thought it died two or three years ago.

It mostly did, though you'd never know that from the unrelenting glowing mentions in the trade press both then and now. Toss in various mainstream equipment manufacturers looking to tick another feature set box, and it's still unfortunately on life support.

 

43 minutes ago, jriver said:

Nice of you all to keep the memory alive.

Actually it's been TIDAL keeping that memory alive, though judging by their declining subscriber/market share numbers, very few people actually care. I wonder if Warner Music is still paying much attention?

[Archimago]

14 hours ago, jriver said:

I thought it died two or three years ago.  Nice of you all to keep the memory alive.

 

I think we try to escape from/forget MQA, but it's hard. Sorta like the slow zombies in movies and TV shows, unexpectedly showing up around scary corners, in the pages of Stereophile, logo on the equipment we buy, or a scary lit blue LED when we just thought we were streaming standard lossless 16/44.1.

 

MQA might be slow, but it has been relentless (almost as relentless as Peter Veth's pro-MQA propaganda), poor at communicating, almost unconscious (and certainly lack conscience), aiming to convert us to zombies as well, or just eat our brains. And it's hard to know if MQA is really dead yet even when attacked with what looks like fatal "truths"...

 

Important to stay nimble and prevent the growth of the slow MQA zombie into large hordes by protecting fellow audiophiles from its deformed digital filters and contagious bite, lest we also become mindless.

[FredericV]

On 2/27/2023 at 4:49 PM, FredericV said:

That's just upsampling to 705,6k or 768k from the band limited output of MQA's first unfold, which is like 17/88.2 or 17/96 of actual entropy, with fake resolution indication to make believe that the upsampled MQA core decode is the same as the original sample rate.

The above quote also applies to the latest BS from PV:




Another proof PV never learns anything new. There's a core decode and then the upsampling = 2 steps.

Where are the FB fact checkers when we really need them ;)

[Currawong]

18 hours ago, Axiom05 said:

Why won't they just rollover and die?!

It's like an STD: The gift that keeps on giving. 

[Currawong]

20 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

PSB Speakers, Sonical and MQA announce partnership to create next-generation headphones 

 

The first in new category of smart, mobile and true hifi audio products

Tuesday, Febraury 28, 2023, Pickering, Canada– PSB Speakers, together with hearables start-up Sonical and audio specialists MQA, announced a partnership that will define a new category of high-resolution audio headphones. The product combines high resolution wireless transmission, proven high-fidelity design, and Sonical’s CosmOS platform. Released under the PSB Speakers brand by Q1 2024, it will be the first headphone to feature Sonical’s ear computing platform, enabling a variety of apps and software upgrades. It also includes MQA’s latest technology, SCL6, the most advanced codec for adaptive, high-resolution audio streaming.

 

CosmOS is Sonical’s revolutionary operating system that runs on powerful low wattage processing cores, bringing unprecedented levels of connectivity and computational power to headphones. CosmOS offers mobile audio product manufacturers the versatility to keep pace with rapidly changing consumer demands for convenience and performance. The integration of Qorvo’s Ultra-wideband (UWB) radio technology enables a superior audio experience thanks to UWB’s higher data rate and extremely low latency. Using Antennaware’s UWB antenna directly addresses any issues associated with Body Blocking which could occur with wireless wearable devices. 

 

Canada-based PSB Speakers, a pioneer in psychoacoustics and an early brand to create audiophile grade wireless headphones, will innovate through deep relationships with Sonical and MQA to push the boundaries of mobile listening. The product will utilize MQA’s new technology, SCL6, an innovative, time domain-based codec for the highest quality audio streaming. Developed by industry veteran and MQA founder, Bob Stuart, SCL6 ensures high-resolution sound even at low data rates.

 

“Given PSB Speakers’ long-time commitment to the science of audio and music listening, it’s a pleasure to be in this partnership which shows the world what CosmOS can do,” says Gary Spittle, Founder and CEO of Sonical.

 

“Our use of the CosmOS platform to make the world’s first software defined wireless headset and the inclusion of MQA’s adaptive wireless codec helps set a new benchmark for a high resolution, mobile high-fidelity product. We believe this product underscores what Paul Barton and the PSB team have accomplished over the brand’s 50-year history in the pursuit of audio excellence for listeners at home and now on the move,” says Gordon Simmonds, President and CEO of Lenbrook Industries, PSB Speakers’ parent company.

 

“MQA was founded by one of the great innovators in audio. We design by thinking of the consumer experience first which means we are comfortable challenging the status quo. The vision shared by our partners at PSB Speakers and Sonical, bringing together superior audio quality and the next generation of consumer convenience, makes this a perfect fit for our latest technology SCL6,” says Mike Jbara, CEO of MQA.

By putting it directly in headphones, users wont be able to check easily if the codec is actually sending lossless data, which we know it very likely wont anyway.  Just like when the Sound Guys showed that even "high res" 990kbit LDAC wasn't quite even CD quality.

[The Computer Audiophile]

57 minutes ago, FredericV said:

Where are the FB fact checkers when we really need them

The telling part of this is that the MQA reps in that group would be happy to correct people if the inaccuracies have a negative connotation, but 4 unfolds sounds good, so they let it slide. 

[Currawong]

41 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The telling part of this is that the MQA reps in that group would be happy to correct people if the inaccuracies have a negative connotation, but 4 unfolds sounds good, so they let it slide. 

Every new product I see from China with MQA still uses the graphic that implies the need of a 32 bit file for the second and third unfolds (with B and C portions in the area below -120 dB).

 

But it's interesting that they are trying to break into the headphone market. They don't seem to realise that the high-end headphone market is almost entirely wired. Focal has been the only company to really make a high-end wireless headphone that impressed people.  Every other attempt has been near ignored. 

 

Let's say that they do come out with a headphone at something like the standard price point of $350 (or so) then it wont seem expensive enough for anyone to take it seriously. I guess it keeps the investment money flowing in though.