A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[rickca]

I listened to my NUC7PJYH running AL headless/ramroot/extreme mode tonight powered by an LPS-1.2.  

 

It's just spooky good.  Instrument timbre is excellent.  You can hear strings vibrating and very precise pizzicato plucks.  Cello resonance just soars.  I think you get the idea.  It's really musical and you don't need to listen intently to be struck by this impression.

 

I keep thinking it can't get much better, but we all know it can.  You never know until you hear it.

[Chopin75]

4 hours ago, RickyV said:

 

What do you think the streamer makes on total sq?

 

 

Streamer is as important if not more than DAC, and that includes the software player, and the OS as well as the hardware itself. For eg Mac OS sucks compared with Linux. Audirvana beats J river on Mac OS from my experience 

[Lobbster]

12 hours ago, rickca said:

I listened to my NUC7PJYH running AL headless/ramroot/extreme mode tonight powered by an LPS-1.2.

Was this for a Streamer between the Server & DAC, or Server replacement?

[Superdad]

23 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

While three Connor-Winfield OH4 Series OCXO (better ones cost even more) alone might cost less than 200 bucks...

 

Actually, look at the -100 dBc/Hz phase noise @10Hz offset spec for the $50 20Mhz Connor-Winfield OH4 and you will see that better clocks (for audio applications) cost less, not more. 

Even the $9.60 Crystek CCHD-575 has lower phase noise/jitter than those C-W clocks. And that's from the published very conservative Crystek plots--actual production 575s run -108 to -112 at 10Hz (for a 25MHz part).

[Lebouwsky]

Maybe a little off current topic, but worth a share: dedicated ground (earth) wire.

 

I recently let a professional connect my hifi to a dedicated earth pin under my house. The improvement is more than I could dream of. Placement of instruments is spot on, soundstage has widened and the overall sound is more calm. But what surprises me the most is the increase in detail.

 

The ability to resolve this micro detail has made my system so sensitive that it’s much easier to even spot small differences in the system like a cable. From here on it’s much easier to evaluate future upgrades.

 

My advice to everybodie who has not installed a dedicated earth pin to it’s system is to do so before spending your hard earned money in other aerias. It actually makes me reconsider judgements I have made in the past. It may have bin an attempt to fix things but in the wrong component. 

[Lobbster]

16 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

I recently let a professional connect my hifi to a dedicated earth pin under my house.

Where is it connected to on the hifi - a component case or an earthing block ?

[Lebouwsky]

2 minutes ago, Lobbster said:

Where is it connected to on the hifi - a component case or an earthing block ?

A Supra block

[rickca]

7 hours ago, Lobbster said:

Was this for a Streamer between the Server & DAC, or Server replacement?

It's currently a standalone box running LMS/Squeezelite streaming Qobuz over wireless.  I use iPeng on an iPad Pro as a controller.  I decided to start with something as simple as possible.

[jaspal kallar]

15 minutes ago, rickca said:

It's currently a standalone box running LMS/Squeezelite streaming Qobuz over wireless.  I use iPeng on an iPad Pro as a controller.  I decided to start with something as simple as possible.

Was this in comparison to the Innuos Zenith SE?

[rickca]

21 minutes ago, jaspal kallar said:

Was this in comparison to the Innuos Zenith SE?

I haven't tried to compare the NUC/AL with my Zenith SE yet.  The Zenith SE is an outstanding server/streamer that is really easy to use.

[rickca]

Can LMS/Squeezelite work in a server/streamer two box configuration like Roon server/endpoint?

 

Currently, I'm running AL/NUC as a standalone box running LMS/Squeezelite streaming Qobuz over wireless.  I have my own rips on a Windows 10 machine.  Of course I can mount a Windows 10 share on the NUC to play music from my library.  But would it sound better to have the NUC run only the player/endpoint function and run the server function (I guess that's LMS) on Windows 10?  

 

Is this architecture supported by the LMS/Squeezelite ecosystem?  If so, how do I implement it ... do I install LMS on Windows 10?

 

I guess I understand how UPnP/DLNA server/renderer works with things like MinimServer on Windows 10, but I'm not sure if LMS/Squeezelite works in a similar manner.  Please help me straighten out my misconceptions.

[LTG2010]

21 minutes ago, rickca said:

Can LMS/Squeezelite work in a server/streamer two box configuration like Roon server/endpoint?

Yes, LMS on Server either windows or linux, squeezelite on renderer.

[rickca]

Just now, LTG2010 said:

Yes, LMS on Server either windows or linux, squeezelite on renderer.

Thanks.  So if I install LMS on my Windows 10 machine and I want my NUC to be the renderer, can I still leave an instance of LMS installed on my NUC?  How do you configure things so that LMS on Windows 10 is using a remote renderer on the NUC?  

 

Also ... in this server/renderer setup, is the controller (say iPeng) always talking to the LMS instance (rather than squeezelite)?

[Dutch]

Sonore goes optical, hmmm. Not much info yet, check their subforum here on CA.

[LTG2010]

17 minutes ago, rickca said:

Thanks.  So if I install LMS on my Windows 10 machine and I want my NUC to be the renderer, can I still leave an instance of LMS installed on my NUC? 

You can leave LMS on your NUC just don't activate it, just start up squeezelite on the NUC, the only running audio service on the NUC should be squeezelite and on the server LMS.

LMS is pretty straight forward to setup and will find squeezelite. Ipeng should communicate with any compatible server including LMS.

[Bricki]

Quick comparison 

 

SMS-200 v0.4.5 vs NUC7CJYH AL/Extreme2/ramroot 

 

I have done a direct comparison of these 2 keeping everything the same except for a 2.1mm to 2.5 mm DC adapter on the nuc. Same sps-500 psu for each. 

 

The NUC still has a more open sound to it as if there is more space and I think it still has a richer tone. I listened to a live track of Troy Caser-Daley where he introduces a song, his voice on the nuc is unmistakably better. It's more realistic and more natural ... It has more of a feel that his mic is plugged straight into my amp... When I listen to his voice on the sMS-200, by comparison it sounds compressed. 

 

However, the sMS-200 still has a feel to it of somehow being lower noise... On its own it sounds fantastic but then I put the nuc back in and I don't miss any of the areas that I felt the sMS-200 was better in. I felt it had a few strengths that are hard to explain... Slightly more delicate and kind of refined more/lower noise.

 

But once again, as soon as the nuc is back I don't miss any of that. The nuc opens up the sound and has a less compressed and more realistic presentation...it feels more like the vocals and instruments are plugged straight into the amp and there is a feeling of ease. 

 

This is the non ultra sms200 on the latest firmware with a SanDisk Extreme PRO A2 sd card. The server is the same for both. It's a sonicTransporter i5 running headless audiolinux 0.8 in ramroot extreme 2. 

 

[HeeBroG]

@Bricki

Thanks for your impressions. Just checking if your sMS-200 has the Neo upgrade?

 

G

[Bricki]

6 minutes ago, HeeBroG said:

@Bricki

Thanks for your impressions. Just checking if your sMS-200 has the Neo upgrade?

 

G

Nah. No Neo upgrade. No ultra. ?

[BigAlMc]

9 hours ago, Dutch said:

Sonore goes optical, hmmm. Not much info yet, check their subforum here on CA.

 

Yeah, I spotted this too. Interesting innovation potentially but also intriguing given how much time our friends at Sonore spent banging on about Ethernet into the Micro/Ultra-Rendu offering near perfect isolation.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[kelvinwsy]

I have done repeated comparisons between my NUC 8650u fanless minipc using Jussi 's Ramroot NAA vs SOTM Ultra NEO

Main Pc is 6700k heavily filtered -- DDR4 ram filter, Dual PCie Mobo filters, fan filters, ssd filters etc

Sara Bareilles HDTrack 96k Live at hires was main test file .. Eagles Hotel California XRCD File, John Denver An Evening with(re-mastered)

The NUC sounds Spacious and wonderful 

SQ is good 

BUT If your system is quiet .. low electrical noise 

When u listen to a good Live Recording u can hear that the image focus on the NUC is not up to par VS SOTM SM200 ultra Neo

The depth and width of the stereo image is superior on the NEO

The track with piano on the Sara Bareilles Brave Enough Live at the Variety Playhouse .. on the NUC you hear the piano sound spread slightly left to right of center. On the Neo the piano is slightly left of center and you can make out the sound mix for piano is right angled to the stereo left right stage .. You can just out Sara stepping in the piano pedals. Her voice is noticeable focused and distinct from the piano and has a greater height in the stereo sound stage.

 

On John Denver An Evening with.. The remastered CD has great SQ especially Hall acoustics and much better instruments and vocal clarity  (John and his band members backing vocals) AND the band's instruments and the orchestra( i hv the original vinyl LP)

On the 4th Track Summer .. The Universal Amphitheater in LA gives a clear resonant delayed echo to JD's voice

On the NUC u hear it as a slightly blurred 2nd voice of JD

on the Neo his lyrics are clearly heard on the hall echo

Other than the above , the SOTM Is a lot quieter than the NUC

AUDIENCE and hall sounds have clear positioning info into the distance away from the concert stage 

And these sounds have superior sound specificity and solidity

My Conclusion? YMMV of course

So i enjoy both devices 

Both tested with 12v LPSU from Ebay

LPS1.1 with Ultracap and LT3045 before the isoregen

iFi idsd micro BL output RCA to 2 Audionote Quest Silver 300b monoblocs driving Senn HD800 thru a hifiman resistor box

8650u fanless minipc - see image attached

16gb ram 64gb SSD but bypassed using Jussi's Linux bootable NAA ramroot file

[Dutch]

1 hour ago, kelvinwsy said:

I have done repeated comparisons between my NUC 8650u fanless minipc using Jussi 's Ramroot NAA vs SOTM Ultra NEO

Main Pc is 6700k heavily filtered -- DDR4 ram filter, Dual PCie Mobo filters, fan filters, ssd filters etc

Sara Bareilles HDTrack 96k Live at hires was main test file .. Eagles Hotel California XRCD File, John Denver An Evening with(re-mastered)

The NUC sounds Spacious and wonderful 

SQ is good 

BUT If your system is quiet .. low electrical noise 

When u listen to a good Live Recording u can hear that the image focus on the NUC is not up to par VS SOTM SM200 ultra Neo

The depth and width of the stereo image is superior on the NEO

The track with piano on the Sara Bareilles Brave Enough Live at the Variety Playhouse .. on the NUC you hear the piano sound spread slightly left to right of center. On the Neo the piano is slightly left of center and you can make out the sound mix for piano is right angled to the stereo left right stage .. You can just out Sara stepping in the piano pedals. Her voice is noticeable focused and distinct from the piano and has a greater height in the stereo sound stage.

 

On John Denver An Evening with.. The remastered CD has great SQ especially Hall acoustics and much better instruments and vocal clarity  (John and his band members backing vocals) AND the band's instruments and the orchestra( i hv the original vinyl LP)

On the 4th Track Summer .. The Universal Amphitheater in LA gives a clear resonant delayed echo to JD's voice

On the NUC u hear it as a slightly blurred 2nd voice of JD

on the Neo his lyrics are clearly heard on the hall echo

Other than the above , the SOTM Is a lot quieter than the NUC

AUDIENCE and hall sounds have clear positioning info into the distance away from the concert stage 

And these sounds have superior sound specificity and solidity

My Conclusion? YMMV of course

So i enjoy both devices 

Both tested with 12v LPSU from Ebay

LPS1.1 with Ultracap and LT3045 before the isoregen

iFi idsd micro BL output RCA to 2 Audionote Quest Silver 300b monoblocs driving Senn HD800 thru a hifiman resistor box

8650u fanless minipc - see image attached

16gb ram 64gb SSD but bypassed using Jussi's Linux bootable NAA ramroot file

 

Thanks for sharing but to be fair this is not a NUC (which is an Intel brand).

 

It’s not an Intel device, not an Intel motherboard it just shares a similar Intel CPU as the NUC7i7DN’xx’.

[kelvinwsy]

Guess I did not say that i was comparing an Intel NUC although the nomenclature is Intel( it was a lazy naming task on my part)

A lot of the inspiration of this forum topic is trying to match listening inspirations of the 7th /. 8th Gen Intel NUC in fanless minipc .. what is the secret sauce that makes the Intel NUC SQ so good

I tend to agree that the main point is OS being light and Ramroot loaded seems critcal ... 

I find it hard to believe Intel 7th Gen mobos used in their kit sets and barebone units brong mass produced is the secret

And this is from Intel who did not manage the transition from 14nm to 10nm production process....

My take is that

8th Gen seems to sound better than 7th Gen Celeron lower powered NUCs

My experience bears this out as I hv another Cherry Trail quad core NAA fanless minipc

The new 8650u sounds so much more authorative and better SQ overall

Happy listening to everyone

 

 

[austinpop]

21 hours ago, Lebouwsky said:

Maybe a little off current topic, but worth a share: dedicated ground (earth) wire.

 

I recently let a professional connect my hifi to a dedicated earth pin under my house. The improvement is more than I could dream of. Placement of instruments is spot on, soundstage has widened and the overall sound is more calm. But what surprises me the most is the increase in detail.

 

The ability to resolve this micro detail has made my system so sensitive that it’s much easier to even spot small differences in the system like a cable. From here on it’s much easier to evaluate future upgrades.

 

My advice to everybodie who has not installed a dedicated earth pin to it’s system is to do so before spending your hard earned money in other aerias. It actually makes me reconsider judgements I have made in the past. It may have bin an attempt to fix things but in the wrong component. 

 

I'm assuming you also have dedicated circuit(s)? Could you describe what you mean by an "earth pin?" I have heard people do things from simple (copper rod hammered into the ground) to trucking in special soil, keeping soil moist with just the right salinity, etc.

 

Do all your audio circuits connect to this ground?

[austinpop]

On 12/26/2018 at 8:50 PM, rickca said:

Did you look at the temps (sensors command) on the DS-1?  Is the case more effective at passive cooling than the Akasa cases?

 

I don't recall what the temps on the Akasa Newton JC case were. Maybe someone who has the PJYH in the Newton JC can post their observations?

 

I just checked the DS-1, which has been on for several days now. According to "sensors," CPU temps are hovering at 46ºC. Ambient room temp based on my thermostat is 20ºC.

[austinpop]

17 hours ago, rickca said:

Can LMS/Squeezelite work in a server/streamer two box configuration like Roon server/endpoint?

 

Currently, I'm running AL/NUC as a standalone box running LMS/Squeezelite streaming Qobuz over wireless.  I have my own rips on a Windows 10 machine.  Of course I can mount a Windows 10 share on the NUC to play music from my library.  But would it sound better to have the NUC run only the player/endpoint function and run the server function (I guess that's LMS) on Windows 10?  

 

Is this architecture supported by the LMS/Squeezelite ecosystem?  If so, how do I implement it ... do I install LMS on Windows 10?

 

I guess I understand how UPnP/DLNA server/renderer works with things like MinimServer on Windows 10, but I'm not sure if LMS/Squeezelite works in a similar manner.  Please help me straighten out my misconceptions.

 

Did you get this working? @LTG2010's advice is spot on.

 

I do this all the time when I want to listen to Qobuz. Assuming I am running Squeezelite on the endpoint, I just stop roonserver, and start LMS on my server box. iPeng picks this up straight away.