A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Advieira]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

For those that might be interested, I have posted my initial listening impressions of the sMS-200Ultra Neo with SOtM's latest allegedly low latency V0.4.5.1 firmware here:   

 

 

(In summary, a definite step up in SQ, but maybe a minor HF issue?)

 

 

I have the same problem with hqplayer. How you made it work? I click the cog, reload, and nothing happens. It keeps loading blue circle forever. It simply can not find Hqplayer.

 

[Confused]

45 minutes ago, Advieira said:

I have the same problem with hqplayer. How you made it work? I click the cog, reload, and nothing happens. It keeps loading blue circle forever. It simply can not find Hqplayer.

 

1

1

1

1

Restart Eunhasu, hover the cursor over the HQPlayer logo (do not click), on the right-hand side under the text "Control HQPlayer NAA" you will see a little cogwheel symbol, this indicates "Config HQPlayer NAA" when you hover the cursor over it, click this, then follow instructions to re-load the HQPlayer app.  Like many things, it is very easy when you know how.  (It would have been nice if SOtM had warned about this and provided some instructions)  Good luck!🙂

[rickca]

On 12/27/2018 at 7:12 PM, rickca said:

But would it sound better to have the NUC run only the player/endpoint function and run the server function (I guess that's LMS) on Windows 10?  

Thanks to @austinpop and @LTG2010 I have this working ... LMS on Windows 10 server and squeezelite on AL/NUC7PJYH.  I have my own rips on the Windows 10 server.

 

So now a question about streaming Qobuz with this configuration.  Both my Windows 10 machine and my NUC are running wireless 5GHz.  With UPnP/DLNA, the Qobuz FLAC goes straight to the renderer (unless you're running A+) ... the server running MinimServer isn't involved.  What about my Windows 10/NUC configuration running LMS/squeezelite?  Since the Qobuz plugin is an LMS thing (not squeezelite), does the Qobuz FLAC come to the LMS instance running on Windows 10 and then get sent to squeezelite on the NUC?  Or is it like UPnP/DLNA, and the Qobuz FLAC goes straight to the renderer?

 

The reason for this question?  When playing my own rips, obviously server side optimizations like power supply will make a difference.  I'm wondering whether they would make any difference when streaming from Qobuz.

[Advieira]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

Restart Eunhasu, hover the cursor over the HQPlayer logo (do not click), on the right-hand side under the text "Control HQPlayer NAA" you will see a little cogwheel symbol, this indicates "Config HQPlayer NAA" when you hover the cursor over it, click this, then follow instructions to re-load the HQPlayer app.  Like many things, it is very easy when you know how.  (It would have been nice if SOtM had warned about this and provided some instructions)  Good luck!🙂

Doesnt work... 😫

 

[Confused]

 

26 minutes ago, Advieira said:

Doesnt work... 😫

 

When you are in HQPlayer settings you need to click “install”.

[Advieira]

deleted

[Advieira]

19 minutes ago, Confused said:

 

When you are in HQPlayer settings you need to click “install”.

 

not working. Happens nothing when clicking in install. And reload page when click in uninstall.

[Confused]

1 hour ago, Advieira said:

 

not working. Happens nothing when clicking in install. And reload page when click in uninstall.

Very strange.  All I can say is that it worked for me.  I suggest that you contact May from SOtM, she normally responds to emails quickly and is very helpfull.

[auricgoldfinger]

On 12/29/2018 at 9:56 AM, auricgoldfinger said:

 

@limniscate and I had a chance to compare the TLS Reference 1 to an SR7 this past week.  Both are double-regulated supplies.  I'll be posting more details soon in the Reference 1 thread, but for now, I can reveal that the SR7 came out on top.

 

Quite some time ago, a little bird told me that the SR7 is also better than a Dr. Sean Jacobs flagship.  I can't name sources, so please don't ask.

 

Here is the link to my comparison of the double-regulated Reference 1 and SR7: 

 

 

 

[tims]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Here is the link to my comparison of the double-regulated Reference 1 and SR7: 

 

 

 

How do the two PS 's compare cost wise - I've often wondered how much a dual rail DR SR7 is compared to a "ordinary" dual rail SR7.

[auricgoldfinger]

11 minutes ago, tims said:

How do the two PS 's compare cost wise - I've often wondered how much a dual rail DR SR7 is compared to a "ordinary" dual rail SR7.

 

Since they are custom supplies, the actual price is determined by your specifications.  TLS has pricing on their website only for the version that I reviewed.

 

Here are the last SR7 list prices.  They are often higher by the time customization is included.  These prices do not include AC or DC cables.

 

SR7                       £800

SR7XL                  £920

SR7DR                £1100

SR7DRXL           £1320

SR7DRMR2        £1200

SR7DRMR2XL   £1530

SR7MR2              £1000

SR7MR2XL        £1240

SR7MR3             £1200

SR7MR3XL        £1560

SR7MR4             £1400

SR7MR4XL        £1880

 

The Reference 1 is most comparable to the SR7DRXL  ($1550 vs. £1320).  At current exchange rates, the USD price is around $1700.  Depending on your bank, the cost could be higher.

[taipan254]

4 hours ago, tims said:

How do the two PS 's compare cost wise - I've often wondered how much a dual rail DR SR7 is compared to a "ordinary" dual rail SR7.

Department of redundancy department? 

[jjh1585]

On 6/16/2017 at 4:22 PM, romaz said:

 

My new DR SR7 has arrived and the difference against my single regulated SR7 is easily noticeable and very worthwhile.  Improved dynamic contrasts and an even smoother, more relaxed and effortless presentation.  I wasn't sure how my SR7 could get better and now I know.  This is a highly recommended upgrade and I have now decided to replace my standard SR7MR2XL with the DR version.

 

Here is what Paul Hynes had to say:

 

"The DR version effectively expands the dynamic range of clean power delivery by reducing output voltage sag with larger load transient current delivery and reducing the overall noise level of the output voltage rail over the range of load current change. There are other benefits but I would prefer you to have the experience of these before I say anything further, as I do not want to affect your conclusions in any way."

 

[rickca]

I spent some time listening to my NUC7PJYH running headless AL ramroot/extreme with a Paul Hynes SR4 today.  It was an OMG moment.  Better bass articulation, dynamics and richer tone than I've ever heard from the NUC.  The SR4 is staying put.

 

I'm using a silver DC cable supplied by PH for the SR4.  To be fair, I don't have a DC cable of comparable quality for my other linear power supplies.  Every LPS I own uses a different connector.  I don't have enough experience with DC cables to know how much of what I'm hearing is attributable to the cable. 

 

[bobfa]

Today I had a second listener over to the house and we spent some time playing music!  My friend had spent a couple of long sessions listening to the system before the recent changes.  Today we only listened to the “new”.  That is with the GAIA III stands and the temporary NUC running AL in RAM as a Roon Endpoint.  I want to report the following:

 

1. When listening to some  vocal tracks (Eva Cassidy and Lorena Mckinnett) he commented several times about the separation and the “space” around everything.

 

2. On a couple of classical pieces he remarked that he could hear the difference between the first chair and second chair violins.  (I cannot hear that much detail but I did not sit in an orchestra like he has).

 

3. We took a break for lunch and a few other things.  I asked if he wanted me to go back to the other Roon Endpoint and he said NO!....  

 

Side note:  a lot of eyes closed listening to the feeling of the music.  He said he had never heard that kind of depth separation.  

 

 

My NUC board will be here tomorrow and I am writing an article on how to install it into the AKASA case and my setup on AL.    Later in the week I will have my HDPLEX power supply to put the NAS and the Sonic Transporter on.  Waiting for Audio network switches...    I think I am zeroing in on things.

 

***. I will have a third listener over later this week.  He is even more critical and I am excited to hear his opinion.

 

Bob (Mr. Happy Dance)

[hols]

A comparison of 3 NUCs with AL in my second system

 

After having read so much about NUCs in the past months I have finally got a NUC7PJYH  Kit and 2 NUC7i7DNBE in their Plato X7D akasa case. And I have been familiarizing with these NUCs in the past month or so when some of my friends came over last weekend with a NUC8i7HVK kit. This is a rare chance that 3 different NUCs can come together and we think it might be an opportunity to compare these NUCs and see is there any significant difference. This is by no means a fair comparison because first it is not a blinded test  Second my NUCs are intermittently used for a month or so though only very sparingly used while my friend's NUC8 is just right out of the box. Third the DDR4 ram are different. NUC7PJYH has a pair of 8GB Corsair 2400 CL16 (Tried HyperX 2400 8GB but like Roy has reported it is not compatible, but surprisingly a 16GB HyperX is compatible). The NUC7i7 has a pair of HyperX 2400 8GB inside. The NUC8 also comes with SSD and stock Ram. Fourth the NUC7i7 has a fanless akasa case but the NUC8i7 only comes with its kit and fan. The power supply we use for all  is the new HDplex 200W (burned in for one month now). Fortunately we have several very experienced audiophile present at the audition so that hopefully can understand the possible impact of these differences.The setup is using this NUC(with Lush USB cable) to feed my Holo Spring DAC connecting to  Cello Encore preamp and MC2 S1400 poweramp and to a pair of Gauss Optonica speakers in my small room. No use of isoRegen or switch or clock devices in this system.

 

We have tried to use theses NUCs as a single piece server using HQplayer to play 44.1 wave files(Oistrakh playing Beethoven violin concerto) in a USB stick. The result is very obvious to everyone present. The 7PYJH gave a very pure and musical sound and is thought to be of exceptional value for its price. It probably excels in chamber music and probably not so much in full scale orchestral music. 7i7DNBE gave a much more stable soundstage with much better details especially in low frequencies and a much more lively sound. The  immediacy and ambiance is also much better felt. 8i7HVK came up and all are just astonished that the sound can become even more dynamic than the 7i7. But to all our surprise is that after about 5 minutes on some harsh sound appears most noticeable in the high frequencies coming out together with the violin sound as if the recording becomes one of the very old recordings. So the 8i7 is more dynamic but perhaps a bit too powerful as to be giving some 'noise'. We have also tried in each NUC stepwise to change from normal boot to ramboot and also by removing the boot USB stick. Every time Ramboot gives a much better sound than normal boot while after removing the boot USB stick there is still another veil got removed. This has been consistent  in all three NUCs tested.

 

We have also tried to use these NUCs as Roon bridge while the Roon server resides in my Win 10 desktop computer next door, again playing the same 44.1 wave file without upsampling. The same observations as a single piece HQplayer is maintained when they serve as Roon bridge here. We have also tried to use these NUCs as HQplayer devices under Roon and playing the files in NAS through Roon. The sound is more to our liking than using Roon bridge in the sense that Roon bridge has a more smooth sound but the details appears a bit covered up as result of this smoothening of the sound). Even this HQplayer under Roon is still not as good as HQplayer alone without Roon in our setting.That is also the main reason why I have not been using Roon much even I have got the license for a long time. I understand that there might be personal preference and different system synergy in force here.

 

A few other observations. 

One of the reasons that this NUC8i7 is chosen by my friend is because of its optical output from the Intel motherboard. It is also present in the NUC7PJYH but not in NUC7i7DNBE. We cannot make it sound with HQplayer or Roon  but we succeded to connect it to my Holo Spring when we use jriver. The sound is mediocre if you use the adapter as shown in photo but the sound opens up when we use a good toslink optical cable(Lifatec optical cable). It is only slightly inferior to the USB connection or some of us think that it is not inferior but only of a different style(More analog or slightly more smooth sound).

 

We have also compared Win10 OS using audiogate compared with AL using HQplayer in the NUC8i7HVK and the latter is quite obviously the winner even not using Ramboot.

 

We have also tried to use the stock 19V SMPS that come with the NUC8i7 Kit and the sound is way way inferior to my HDplex 19V output. 

 

Dual machine We have also listened to but not critically(because not really optimised. no ramboot yet because need some time to setup in another system) on using NUC7i7 as HQplyer server and another NUCi7 as NAA(endpoint) and connected to switch without bridging over in my bigger system. The sound is good but not yet up to the standard of my existing server(also Linux system).

 

Summary

This is only an early report of the three NUCs in the same system. YMMV. Despite all the inadequacies in the comparison it seems that the NUC7i7DNBE is the optimum to go for either as a one piece server or as an endpoint. NUC8i7HVK seems to be a bit too powerful as to be causing some harsh sound(not sure it is the fan, or the higher power required that caused EMI RFI interference). Unless you need the optical output or the high power for upsampling to DSD512(which we have not tested because not enough time) or the like one could probably settle comfortably with the NUC7i7DNBE.  

[greenleo]

2 hours ago, hols said:

Dual machine We have also listened to but not critically(...) on using NUC7i7 as HQplyer server and another NUCi7 as NAA(endpoint) and connected to switch without bridging over in my bigger system. The sound is good but not yet up to the standard of my existing server(also Linux system).

Thank you hols for  the post.

 

May I calrify few things?

1. Did the dual PC system sound better than the single box system given that both of them were using HQP?  I guess that both of the PC were using AL, correct?

 

2. What's the switch being used?

 

2. What's your server's Linux system?

 

Regards 

[hols]

3 hours ago, greenleo said:

1. Did the dual PC system sound better than the single box system given that both of them were using HQP?  I guess that both of the PC were using AL, correct?

 

2. What's the switch being used?

 

2. What's your server's Linux system?

 

Hi Greenleo,

 

I have been using a linux dual machine system developed by my buddy all these years. It is not a commercial product and I am sorry I do not have his permission to disclose any detail. So I propose not to talk about it at this moment.

 

On the other hand I can talk about some of my observations as I tried to tweak the AL OS.

First to answer your questions 1. Yes the dual system(both AL lqxt) is having better sound than a single machine but not significantly so(from what I can observe at this early stage of tweaking).  2. I am using the SOtM switch sNH-10G with reference clock from Cybershaft OP20.

 

And now my observations. I am using the Chord Blu 2 and Dave  in this big room system and several things that one need to pay attention to with this combo. One of which is that the galvanic isolation of USB input of Blu 2 is not perfect. I noticed that because I have a LP system also hooked up to the same system . Any noise from the digital stream will be noticed even if I play solely from the LPs. So I need to to put the isoRegen in the line of the USB chain just after the NAA computer to 'filter' this digital noise. There is a side effect resulting from this arrangement is that the NAA will lose contact with the DAC on any slight change of cables and it sometimes takes repeated attempts to reset every gear before it can be connected again so it becomes a headache to tweak the OS in this system. So you can imagine it would be a tedious job to tweak the AL from normal boot to ramboot and then headless and then extreme 2 because it involves repeated reboot and sometimes it will not recognise the DAC after reboot. And I do not have time to do all these tweaks yet so I did say that it is not a critical evaluation yet. But one thing I noticed is that on connecting the dual machine NUC7i7 AL the noise that can be heard from the speakers is significantly greater than my original system (when I try not to use the isoRegen) and this is already using linear power supply to both NUCs including Uptone JS-2 , HDplex 200W . I am not sure whether other NUC users have noticed this in their system or not ? My wild guess is they are also present to a certain degree and that is why a really good LPS is essential in driving these NUCs in order to minimise all these leaking currents or dirty ground loops that might be present in these compactly  packed NUC motherboards. And that is also why one must try to go for ramboot and take away all the SSD or SATA or any unused devices before one can get really good sound. So probably still a long way to go in tweaking these NUCs.

 

As for the SOtM switch it has stayed in my system for more than a month now and has become an indispensable part of the system. I agree with Roy that it is probably the single most important product that SOtM has produced. Everything becomes more musical after putting it in the chain. The improvement is surprisingly not in improving accuracy or sharper focus but more on timbre, naturalness and immediacy. Everything comes out more smooth but everything feels just right. No more need to sit in the golden seat to enjoy music. You can listen to one speaker and yet can still enjoy all the details of your music. I just put the switch in between the HQplayer and the NAA and that is already good enough. And of course it needs a good LPS and I am giving it my Uptone LPS 1.2.

 

So sorry I could not give you any straight answer for your questions because I still need more time to tweak the AL before I could make any comment. 

[seeteeyou]

Obviously not a fanless setup by any means, though this particular work of art really made something special outta NUC8i7HVK

 

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-1901382-1-1.html

 

 

 

 

 

FYI - here's a Chinese seller who made something for NUC6i5SYH with a water cooler, maybe similar stuff for NUC8i7HVK would cost more than 82 RMB but that should be no biggie

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=546257572419

 

[rickca]

7 hours ago, hols said:

We have also tried to use the stock 19V SMPS that come with the NUC8i7 Kit and the sound is way way inferior to my HDplex 19V output. 

Which HDPLEX are you using?  Is it the new 200W LPS or an older unit? 

[hols]

8 minutes ago, rickca said:

Which HDPLEX are you using?  Is it the new 200W LPS or an older unit? 

new 200W HDPLEX with 2 fixed outputs 12V and 19V and 2 variable outputs using total eight lt30451

[greenleo]

36 minutes ago, hols said:

1. Yes the dual system(both AL lqxt)

Why not another machine using AL headless?

 

36 minutes ago, hols said:

SOtM switch sNH-10G with reference clock from Cybershaft OP20

Wow, the holy grail.  I envy you, pal.  I hope that I may visit you and hear your system.  Lol.

 

One question.  In your opinion, how large is the improvement of the switch due to OP20?  I would be very happy if you may pm me if you find that more appropriate.

 

38 minutes ago, hols said:

galvanic isolation of USB input of Blu 2 is not perfect

I remember that you posted the best Intona cable.  I guess that was being used.  Correct?

 

49 minutes ago, hols said:

side effect resulting from this arrangement is that the NAA will lose contact with the DAC on any slight change of cables and it sometimes takes repeated attempts to reset every gear before it can be connected again so it becomes a headache to tweak the OS in this system. So you can imagine it would be a tedious job to tweak the AL from normal boot to ramboot and then headless and then extreme 2 because it involves repeated reboot and sometimes it will not recognise the DAC after reboot. 

Can truly sense the pain.

 

 

41 minutes ago, hols said:

I could not give you any straight answer for your questions

You've already answered a lot.

 

 

[elan120]

52 minutes ago, hols said:

Hi Greenleo,

 

I have been using a linux dual machine system developed by my buddy all these years. It is not a commercial product and I am sorry I do not have his permission to disclose any detail. So I propose not to talk about it at this moment.

 

On the other hand I can talk about some of my observations as I tried to tweak the AL OS.

First to answer your questions 1. Yes the dual system(both AL lqxt) is having better sound than a single machine but not significantly so(from what I can observe at this early stage of tweaking).  2. I am using the SOtM switch sNH-10G with reference clock from Cybershaft OP20.

 

And now my observations. I am using the Chord Blu 2 and Dave  in this big room system and several things that one need to pay attention to with this combo. One of which is that the galvanic isolation of USB input of Blu 2 is not perfect. I noticed that because I have a LP system also hooked up to the same system . Any noise from the digital stream will be noticed even if I play solely from the LPs. So I need to to put the isoRegen in the line of the USB chain just after the NAA computer to 'filter' this digital noise. There is a side effect resulting from this arrangement is that the NAA will lose contact with the DAC on any slight change of cables and it sometimes takes repeated attempts to reset every gear before it can be connected again so it becomes a headache to tweak the OS in this system. So you can imagine it would be a tedious job to tweak the AL from normal boot to ramboot and then headless and then extreme 2 because it involves repeated reboot and sometimes it will not recognise the DAC after reboot. And I do not have time to do all these tweaks yet so I did say that it is not a critical evaluation yet. But one thing I noticed is that on connecting the dual machine NUC7i7 AL the noise that can be heard from the speakers is significantly greater than my original system (when I try not to use the isoRegen) and this is already using linear power supply to both NUCs including Uptone JS-2 , HDplex 200W . I am not sure whether other NUC users have noticed this in their system or not ? My wild guess is they are also present to a certain degree and that is why a really good LPS is essential in driving these NUCs in order to minimise all these leaking currents or dirty ground loops that might be present in these compactly  packed NUC motherboards. And that is also why one must try to go for ramboot and take away all the SSD or SATA or any unused devices before one can get really good sound. So probably still a long way to go in tweaking these NUCs.

 

As for the SOtM switch it has stayed in my system for more than a month now and has become an indispensable part of the system. I agree with Roy that it is probably the single most important product that SOtM has produced. Everything becomes more musical after putting it in the chain. The improvement is surprisingly not in improving accuracy or sharper focus but more on timbre, naturalness and immediacy. Everything comes out more smooth but everything feels just right. No more need to sit in the golden seat to enjoy music. You can listen to one speaker and yet can still enjoy all the details of your music. I just put the switch in between the HQplayer and the NAA and that is already good enough. And of course it needs a good LPS and I am giving it my Uptone LPS 1.2.

 

So sorry I could not give you any straight answer for your questions because I still need more time to tweak the AL before I could make any comment. 

Hi Hols,

 

What Ethernet cables have you tried with sNH-10G?  Do you find significant differences between them?

[hols]

3 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Hi Hols,

 

What Ethernet cables have you tried with sNH-10G?  Do you find significant differences between them?

I use 2 Vertere pulse HB ethernet cables. These help to give a more lively sound and especially good high frequencies.  Dalby ethernet cable is the other one I have tried on my system. It is very musical and rich in timbre but it is two times the price of the Vertere pulse HB cables. After using the sNH-10G the difference among different ethernet cables is less pronounced as before but I would say still easily distinguishable.  I use Supra cat 8 ethernet cables in other less strategic areas and I changed some of them to Telegartner plugs. 

[rickca]

5 minutes ago, hols said:

I use Supra cat 8 ethernet cables in other less strategic areas

Do you know whether the standard Supra cat 8 ethernet cables have a floating shield or not?  I've heard good feedback about these for the price.