USB cable comparisons

[xyzzy1]

13 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

You want to learn about cables, but never at the cost that all of your "minds made up" beliefs might be in error and that you've wasted thousands of dollars. Just keep reinforcing each others expectation bias induced hearing delusions and patting each other on the back for the golden ears you possess and the deep pockets you can use to out spend the next guy.  BLAH,   LOL

There's no path here that will lead to any advancement in audio's SOTA sound.

Ok so why you keep reading and posting on this thread then? Hmm.... me thinks what irks you is hidden in your choice of words "...and the deep pockets you can use to out spend the next guy...".  That's really it, isn't it, no "deep pockets" for you? As I am not aware of any post from you that you've tried cable swaps on an entry level high-end or better audio system have you thought about your own "expectation bias"? On the good advice of others, last reply to you. Suggest you get past your deep angst here and look for your own happy pastures elsewhere. This is not good for your blood pressure / health.

[Albrecht]

On 12/31/2012 at 11:02 AM, reverendo said:

I am currently looking for a USB cable that will fit my system, so I'm not looking for "THE BEST" cable, but the one that will work the best according to my ears.

I'd like to discourage those who do not hear differences in USB cables (or all cables) to post on this thread. I understand and respect your opinions and findings, but we'll have to agree to disagree. As human beings we all have different physical abilities. Some can run long stretches, some are fast swimmers, some are lift heavy weights... you get my point. This also applies to the physical part of listening, too. It's also true that we don't have the same experience (and/or training) in processing the information that our brain receives and, of course, this also applies to listening. So please, PLEASE, let's not let this thread become a discussion about placebo effects vs. hearing and listening disabilities, ok?

A few words about myself (for what it's worth): I have studied classical composition at a University level, have worked as a production consultant on a few albums and work with arrangements for voices, brass and orchestra now and then.

The cables I had the chance to compare were: Resolution Audio Cantata stock USB Cable, AudioQuest Coffee, Wireworld Silver Starlight, Locus Desing Axis and Synergistic Research Basik Active. This is also the sequence in which I listened to them. I will sum up my findings. For those who want are more in-depth description please refer here to my original post in a Brazilian hifi-forum (for those who understand Portuguese or are willing to use Google Translate).

 

The AQ Coffee definitely didn't do it for me, though it was a very noticeable improvement compared to the stock cable. The name is very fitting: in my system it was very energetic, detailed and fast cable. The major problem was with the HF which was slightly veiled and had severe decay issues (almost no decay whatsoever). Timbres also suffered compared to the other cables. The result was a cable that was very detailed, but that didn't create a cohesive sound stage, resulting in a dissected sound. Therefore I had hyper-layering and very good placement on sound stage, but the music didn't mesh.

 

The WW Silver Starlight had all the detail of the Coffee, but with far better decay in the HFs. Timbres were better and LFs were stellar. Sound stage was larger, but had less depth than the Coffee. It bettered the Coffee in all regards except for depth and sounded far more natural.

 

The LD Axis had great LF, but not as good as the Silver Starlight. It had spectacular decay in the HFs, which gave the whole cable a very refined sound. Sound stage was large and spacious. In my system the Axis had good micro-dynamics. The mids, OTOH, were slightly veiled. Higher mids and treble had very good plasticity (for the lack of a better word). Treble is simply SOTA. It's a shame that the mids weren't on par with the HF.

 

The SR Basik Active's first impression was simply holographic. Sound was very, very 3D. Had similar depth of Coffee, but now I had a continuous and coherent sound stage. LFs were better than Axis, but not as detailed as the Silver Starlight. Excellent timbre all around. Treble decay was very good, but not in the same league as the Axis. Fantastic mids. Clear and clean, very musical and with loads of detail. Probably as fast as the Coffee, but without the negatives. The best tonal balance and, by far, the best mids of the group.

 

The best cost/benefit cable of the group was, without doubt, the WW Silver Starlight. The SR Basik Active was my favorite, but I'm very interested in getting to know the Platinum, based on what it's smaller sibling did for my system. The fact that I needed an extra outlet for the Basik doesn't make it very appealing to me.

I hope these comments might help point others into the right direction.

Best regards

André

Hi,

 

I just was lucky enough to pick up a used Cardas Clear highSpeed USB with the split power & data. This goes between my Sonore Ultra-Rendu and the F-1 USB to SPDIF converter. The previous best in my system was the Sonore/Cardas 4" USB adapter. I tried the Kimber, the Uptone Audio USB plug, Belkin-AtoB printer cable, The ifI Mercury 3.0 with adjustable Ferrites, a generic 3" USB a to b adapter etc.

 

My speaker manufacturer always told me to wire the whole system with Cardas. Dumbo me for not listening. Every time I put in a Cardas cable, - it makes a significant improvement over others that I've tried. If/when I decide to get the Sonore ultra-digital USB to SPDIF converter, - i can/could no longer use the Sonore/Cardas USB plug.

 

IMO so many of these cables are not only digital file player dependent, - but also whatever, and/or if, one is using reclocking, or USB signal/enhancement/noise elimination, "improvement" devices. After several USB to SPDIF converters, the F-1 worked for my system the best, - but I also am finding that I want to revisit my choice of non-Cardas SPDIF cable to my Universal Player/DAC.

 

At the end of the day, (for me/my system), I am finding that it's a combination of cables surrounding the USB cable that also play a significant role too.

 

 

[str-1]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this question but I will ask anyway.

 

When it can be used, will an unpowered usb cable more often than not sound better than a powered version of the same cable?  

 

I realise there will be a lot of “it depends” and “your mileage may vary” in any answer but I would welcome thoughts from anyone with experience of doing this kind of comparison.

[reverendo]

3 hours ago, str-1 said:

Not sure if this is the right thread for this question but I will ask anyway.

 

When it can be used, will an unpowered usb cable more often than not sound better than a powered version of the same cable?  

 

I realise there will be a lot of “it depends” and “your mileage may vary” in any answer but I would welcome thoughts from anyone with experience of doing this kind of comparison.

there is a good chance that the same cable will sound better without the power line, that is, if your DAC doesn't need it for the handshake, which is my case.

[Cornan]

52 minutes ago, reverendo said:

there is a good chance that the same cable will sound better without the power line, that is, if your DAC doesn't need it for the handshake, which is my case.

 

There is not only a good chance. IMHO there is a 100% chance that SQ will be better with a 5v cut. The same chances applies to a GND cut. All depends on DAC specs though.

[str-1]

1 hour ago, reverendo said:

there is a good chance that the same cable will sound better without the power line, that is, if your DAC doesn't need it for the handshake, which is my case.

 

57 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

There is not only a good chance. IMHO there is a 100% chance that SQ will be better with a 5v cut. The same chances applies to a GND cut. All depends on DAC specs though.

Thanks guys.

[seeteeyou]

If your USB DAC / DDC were actually requiring 5V for handshake or bus power, that could be injected with stuff like this

 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/idefender3-0/

http://www.fidelix.jp/technology/HiFi USB filter.html

 

Of course we've gotta feed that with an excellent source of power

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=565126246341

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-Four-Parallel-Regulated-Power-Supply-18650-Battery-5V-2A-Upgrade-LT3042/323416429481

 

Even better LiFePO4 batteries from A123

 

https://www.amazon.de/A123-APR18650M1-1100mAh-2V-LiFePo4/dp/B00C698TDS

https://www.amazon.fr/A123-Systems-APR18650M1A-18650-Batterie/dp/B00C698TDS

https://www.amazon.it/Systems-APR18650M1A-18650-LiFePo4-1100mAh/dp/B00C698TDS

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Systems-APR18650M1A-18650-LiFePO4-1100mAh/dp/B00C698TDS

https://www.ebay.pl/itm/A123-APR18650M-A1-1100mAh-3-2V-3-3V-LiFePo4-Akku/322138065404

https://www.fasttech.com/product/1208601-a123-systems-18650-lifepo4-1200mah-high-discharge

[Apmusson]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:58 PM, Apmusson said:

 

I received the Sablon cable at 09.00 (BST) this morning and have been listening for about 3 hours straight.   I will reserve final verdict until buyers euphoria has worn off (about 3 weeks in my case).  

 

Initial listening has revealed that the Sablon Reserva does a lot of things very well.  All harshness from the Curious cable has gone, but the excitement remains - I know this to be true as I have played a couple of tracks that caused me to wince when using the Curious cable (HD800 and Chord Hugo 2 are described by some as bright - I think that revealing is more accurate) are now playing without any pain and with much additional foot-tapping - I couldnt listen to Billy Braggs 'A New England' using Curious Cable - the jangly guitar was too much - it is still acerbic (rightly so) but no more ear pain.

 

Anyway as I said I'll wait for a few weeks before resuming (I need to swap back a couple of times too).  

 

Ade

 

Hi

 

I owe you a quick update on the Sablon cable.  After using the cable for a few weeks (on burn in) I ended up returning it.  It was an improvement on the curious link cable (providing a richness to the sound over the curious) while retaining the detail.  However, occasionally my system the sound a little dull after a long period of usage - I ended up turning the Hugo 2 and Ultrarendu off for a short period and the magic was back.  I'm not an electronics expert so don't know if it's an issue with the Hugo / Ultrarendu but have not had this problem with other cables.  The sound of the cable is excellent and I know that many others are using it without issue.

 

Mark (Sablon) was excellent to deal with and I would not hesitate to try his cables for other areas of my system.

 

I ended up with a Wireworld platinum USB cable and am currently enjoying the burn in process.

 

Adrian

[reverendo]

I got to compare my Lightspeed 10G with the entry-level Gekko Black USB cable recently.

 

LS 10G pros: HF extension and decay (therefore sound stage height) and LF accuracy.
Gekko Black pros: In everything else the Gekko black was better. Very, very holographic. extremely silent (lower noise floor) and resolved mid-range. more body, placement, separation, body, texture and tone. wider and deeper sound stage. It reminded me of the synergistic research USB cable with the black bullet, but better, especially since I easily preferred the 10G over the SR when I compared them.

 

This means the 10G is out of the system and the Gekko stays. I will try Gekko's main USB cable just out of morbid curiosity, since it costs more than I would want to invest. if it is is better in HF and LF it would be a killer cable.

[sgr]

Nice job!!

[look&listen]

2 hours ago, Apmusson said:

However, occasionally my system the sound a little dull after a long period of usage - I ended up turning the Hugo 2 and Ultrarendu off for a short period and the magic was back.

Remind me of leaving computer on for many weeks, then odd things start happens. Reboot machine & all Ok again. Which suggest (to me) a software problem, not cable. Suggest to you to try & isolate problem, UR (computer inside!), Hugo, USB cable?

Very unusual problem worth more investigation IMO.

[Jon47]

Hi, Has anyone demo'd the Crystal Cable Ultimate Dream USB cable, if so...comments.

[Shanepj]

I played around with three cables, one was a basic printer cable worth a couple of quid, another was chord C-USB and the other was the Signature ARAY. 

 

Basic cable worked fine all be it a little to bright for my liking

 

C-USB removed the brightness from the audio as was extremely pleasing to hear

 

Signature ARAY brought a level of placement to the instruments that I hadn’t noticed before

 

Did try all three cables with a differing system located in another location and found it very difficult to hear the difference between the C-USB and Signature ARAY cables. So, to that end, it highlighted that the room and cheaper electronics had a much bigger effect that the cables especially when using digital cables. 

 

I’ve carried out a similar hearing experiment (nothing factual, just actual hearing experience) with analogue cables and it’s far easier to audiably hear the differences with analogue cables than digital cables as it seems the electronics that govern this side seem to level off much quicker. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this before, but I found it very interesting 

 

 

[sgr]

To me USB cables do make a difference, but not as great as a good linear power supply in the system. I’m still using my Curious set as I’m not in a hurry to join the USB cable if the month club. 

 

I wonder what what a Western Electric USB cable would sound like? I’m a big fan of the speaker cables and power cables I made and use. Not talented enough to make a USB cable. 

[elcorso]

5 minutes ago, sgr said:

To me USB cables do make a difference, but not as great as a good linear power supply in the system. I’m still using my Curious set as I’m not in a hurry to join the USB cable if the month club. 

 

I wonder what what a Western Electric USB cable would sound like? I’m a big fan of the speaker cables and power cables I made and use. Not talented enough to make a USB cable. 

 

Hmmm, both things are important !

 

Roch

[sgr]

Oh yes both are important if you want the best sound quality which most do. But I’ve not heard a large enough difference to update each time a new USB cable is discovered. They do provide different flavors, easily heard in my system. I might try a lush cable but for what I need it’s much too long to cope with. The small Curious tails sound very good and much more convenient. 

[Allan F]

On 8/16/2018 at 10:11 AM, xyzzy1 said:

Suggest you get past your deep angst here and look for your own happy pastures elsewhere.

 

This suggestion has been made many times before, including by both the OP and Chris, but it has fallen on deaf ears. Sadly, there is little reason to believe that he will not continue with his repetitive unwanted posts. There is a partial solution, however (click to enlarge):

[ALRAINBOW]

We should not disallow others comments there are many factors to consider how much or any to some. 

Does anyone have an understanding of why usb Cables effect the sound ? 

I can doa few quotes  but it will not matter to most. 

THe source used makes the biggest change and after that most DACs. While there are some exceptions it’s mostly as I say I feel. . Why do I put the source first coz most all DACs  will not Sound best without it. Beyond this is the usb Cables we use. All usb Cables seem to have a sound so to admit this is tough for me and most 

I don’t feel exp Cables are needed always but clearly some made are better for over all sound. 

I kind man who Owns some nice stuff was driven mad with ground isuses. It took me many weeks as I helped him fix his many issues. 

Lastly it was his usb cable to fix. 

I truly feel all of our audio devices need to be electrically isolated  it few do this. 

He ordered a cust usb cable with a power cutter built in and a Recomended usb iso device. 

It was the last step to true happiness. 

Not all have systems that can hear the changes to the levels it may happen. To accuse them is degrading to them and cannot help the Person. 

Laslty are any usb Cables made for us bad. 

Absolutly yes lol I have heard them in my system.  But others love them lol. 

Dont take my comments as trolling it’s. It meant to be. It’s just pure honesty. Tough to swallow 

now the poster who needs to reboot a good idea and of you hear it it’s ok. 

Dont let others make you feel odd. It’s his most try to make me feel as I help them lol. 

The reason why is complex and I am not sure why it’s in yours. 

If you post what your sever is I might be able to explain why.  But do reboot of you feel it does. 

Enjoy 

[elcorso]

50 minutes ago, ALRAINBOW said:

We should not disallow others comments there are many factors to consider how much or any to some. 

Does anyone have an understanding of why usb Cables effect the sound ? 

I can doa few quotes  but it will not matter to most. 

THe source used makes the biggest change and after that most DACs. While there are some exceptions it’s mostly as I say I feel. . Why do I put the source first coz most all DACs  will not Sound best without it. Beyond this is the usb Cables we use. All usb Cables seem to have a sound so to admit this is tough for me and most 

I don’t feel exp Cables are needed always but clearly some made are better for over all sound. 

I kind man who Owns some nice stuff was driven mad with ground isuses. It took me many weeks as I helped him fix his many issues. 

Lastly it was his usb cable to fix. 

I truly feel all of our audio devices need to be electrically isolated  it few do this. 

He ordered a cust usb cable with a power cutter built in and a Recomended usb iso device. 

It was the last step to true happiness. 

Not all have systems that can hear the changes to the levels it may happen. To accuse them is degrading to them and cannot help the Person. 

Laslty are any usb Cables made for us bad. 

Absolutly yes lol I have heard them in my system.  But others love them lol. 

Dont take my comments as trolling it’s. It meant to be. It’s just pure honesty. Tough to swallow 

now the poster who needs to reboot a good idea and of you hear it it’s ok. 

Dont let others make you feel odd. It’s his most try to make me feel as I help them lol. 

The reason why is complex and I am not sure why it’s in yours. 

If you post what your sever is I might be able to explain why.  But do reboot of you feel it does. 

Enjoy 

 

I think you're right, Al.

 

Many of us forget where music is "born" and it has even cost me to convince friends to improve it. Once they do, they are fascinated.

 

But I believe USB cables can also improve the sound, or make it worse !

 

Roch

[ALRAINBOW]

Totally agree it can make or break.  

[reverendo]

4 hours ago, ALRAINBOW said:

We should not disallow others comments there are many factors to consider how much or any to some. 

Does anyone have an understanding of why usb Cables effect the sound ? 

I can doa few quotes  but it will not matter to most. 

THe source used makes the biggest change and after that most DACs. While there are some exceptions it’s mostly as I say I feel. . Why do I put the source first coz most all DACs  will not Sound best without it. Beyond this is the usb Cables we use. All usb Cables seem to have a sound so to admit this is tough for me and most 

I don’t feel exp Cables are needed always but clearly some made are better for over all sound. 

I kind man who Owns some nice stuff was driven mad with ground isuses. It took me many weeks as I helped him fix his many issues. 

Lastly it was his usb cable to fix. 

I truly feel all of our audio devices need to be electrically isolated  it few do this. 

He ordered a cust usb cable with a power cutter built in and a Recomended usb iso device. 

It was the last step to true happiness. 

Not all have systems that can hear the changes to the levels it may happen. To accuse them is degrading to them and cannot help the Person. 

Laslty are any usb Cables made for us bad. 

Absolutly yes lol I have heard them in my system.  But others love them lol. 

Dont take my comments as trolling it’s. It meant to be. It’s just pure honesty. Tough to swallow 

now the poster who needs to reboot a good idea and of you hear it it’s ok. 

Dont let others make you feel odd. It’s his most try to make me feel as I help them lol. 

The reason why is complex and I am not sure why it’s in yours. 

If you post what your sever is I might be able to explain why.  But do reboot of you feel it does. 

Enjoy 

Hi, Al. 

Wonderful to have you around. You're the most analytical guy I know regarding getting the server right. I deeply appreciate that. The moment I'm ready for that step, I know who I'm calling. 

BTW, would love for you to try some cables. Get them from thecableco. I might just send you the 10G for you to get a taste of it. ??

[seeteeyou]

Plenty of audiophiles in China and Hong Kong tried those USB cables from Intona and the feedback seemed to be unanimously positive so far, one of them actually tried a plethora of high-end USB cables and Intona Ultimate turned out to take the cake

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=570753836367

http://www.headphoneclub.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=718090

http://www.headphoneclub.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=718546

http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=117935

http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=121379

 

Maybe signal integrity ain't snake oil after all?

[xyzzy1]

6 hours ago, ALRAINBOW said:

We should not disallow others comments there are many factors to consider how much or any to some. 

Does anyone have an understanding of why usb Cables effect the sound ? 

I can doa few quotes  but it will not matter to most. 

THe source used makes the biggest change and after that most DACs. While there are some exceptions it’s mostly as I say I feel. . Why do I put the source first coz most all DACs  will not Sound best without it. Beyond this is the usb Cables we use. All usb Cables seem to have a sound so to admit this is tough for me and most 

I don’t feel exp Cables are needed always but clearly some made are better for over all sound. 

I kind man who Owns some nice stuff was driven mad with ground isuses. It took me many weeks as I helped him fix his many issues. 

Lastly it was his usb cable to fix. 

I truly feel all of our audio devices need to be electrically isolated  it few do this. 

He ordered a cust usb cable with a power cutter built in and a Recomended usb iso device. 

It was the last step to true happiness. 

Not all have systems that can hear the changes to the levels it may happen. To accuse them is degrading to them and cannot help the Person. 

Laslty are any usb Cables made for us bad. 

Absolutly yes lol I have heard them in my system.  But others love them lol. 

Dont take my comments as trolling it’s. It meant to be. It’s just pure honesty. Tough to swallow 

now the poster who needs to reboot a good idea and of you hear it it’s ok. 

Dont let others make you feel odd. It’s his most try to make me feel as I help them lol. 

The reason why is complex and I am not sure why it’s in yours. 

If you post what your sever is I might be able to explain why.  But do reboot of you feel it does. 

Enjoy 

Regards your:

        Does anyone have an understanding of why usb Cables effect the sound ? 

 

from what I observe I believe digital cables inject noise into the DAC. No cable will improve sound, better cables will only degrade it less. The perfect cable material, I think, would be super conducting. 

 

Noise in cables comes from impurities in the metals causing reflections. From junction points where the cable connects to the jack metal also causing reflections and ringing among many other causes of noise being generated. 

 

There is is no such thing as perfect isolation between components. Noise generated in the cable by poor contacts, reflections, etc is going to get into the dac and into the analog amp in the dac. Better cables have better (purer) materials and better junction points causing less reflection noise that is the cause of electron turbulence.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, xyzzy1 said:

from what I observe I believe digital cables inject noise into the DAC. No cable will improve sound, better cables will only degrade it less. The perfect cable material, I think, would be super conducting. 

 

Noise in cables comes from impurities in the metals causing reflections. From junction points where the cable connects to the jack metal also causing reflections and ringing among many other causes of noise being generated. 

 

There is is no such thing as perfect isolation between components. Noise generated in the cable by poor contacts, reflections, etc is going to get into the dac and into the analog amp in the dac. Better cables have better (purer) materials and better junction points causing less reflection noise that is the cause of electron turbulence.

 

Sadly, for USB cables what you wrote is not at all how it works.  It is all about variations in  USB signal integrity (as seen in an eye pattern—which quantifies jitter, slew, amplitude, and a form of noise), and also shielding. These are things that have an effect on the DAC’s input stage and affect how much ground-plane and packet-data noise the USB PHY and processor generate inside the DAC—which in turn can effect sensitive power supply and ground circuits, resulting in small variations at the DAC chip’s master clock input pin.

This has been written about extensively.  It can be measured at very low levels, though it is not hard to hear in a good system with acoustic music.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Maybe signal integrity ain't snake oil after all?

 

Ya think?!