USB cable comparisons

[Ralf11]

well, he is correct - no reason to pay big bucks for a simple LRC network

 

buy an expensive cable and cut it open (or Xray it) - see what you bought

[Blake]

15 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

well, he is correct - no reason to pay big bucks for a simple LRC network

 

buy an expensive cable and cut it open (or Xray it) - see what you bought

 

It is totally cool with all of us if you agree with Sal.  Honestly.  All we (actually Reverendo, the OP, with his initial post) ask is that you take this sort of discussion to another thread.  

 

Pretty please, with sugar on top, and a sprinkling of rainbows, kisses and unicorns.

 

 

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, Blake said:

It is totally cool with all of us if you agree with Sal.  Honestly.  All we (actually Reverendo, the OP, with his initial post) ask is that you take this sort of discussion to another thread.  

 

Yes. One of his own threads where he can  forcibly steer the thread to the conclusion that he desires.

 

[HumanMedia]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

July 2014

 

Thanks for this, I believe there was another comparison as well from July the year before or after. Interesting that their winners exhibit good rise times and square (low noise / distortion) waveforms...

 

some me of the poorer cables don’t even look like square waves 

[Ralf11]

24 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

It is totally cool with all of us if you agree with Sal.  Honestly.  All we (actually Reverendo, the OP, with his initial post) ask is that you take this sort of discussion to another thread.  

 

Pretty please, with sugar on top, and a sprinkling of rainbows, kisses and unicorns.

 

 

 

please re-read the OP - he does not say to avoid price comparison or construction details; he does say to avoid DBT arguments and I have not done that

[elcorso]

R, L & C for the transmission of electrical signals.

 

R, S & C (Rice,  Seafood & Condiments) to make a Paella. In what proportion, cooking times, etc.? In the end we will always have Paella, but all with different flavor. Some will like some and others like other.

 

If we go to medicines, where technology is used to the extreme. Some will be treated and others will not. The same with the side effects.

 

I very much agree that all the necessary technology is used in audio. But, (thank God) we are human beings, not exactly designed machines. (Not to mention different audio gear and listening rooms).

 

Therefore I think we should some times,

 

 

Roch

 

[Blake]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

please re-read the OP - he does not say to avoid price comparison or construction details; he does say to avoid DBT arguments and I have not done that

 

I believe your comment that "he is correct - no reason to pay big bucks for a simple LRC network" is outside of this thread. 

 

Isn't that similar to saying there is a point at which a solidly built sensibly-priced usb cable cannot be improved upon in terms of sound quality?  Or am I reading too much in to your comment? 

 

 

[sandyk]

July 2013 was the previous Group Test in HFNRR

[barrows]

Yeah, I have seen the HI Fi News USB cable tests with both eye pattern measurements and subjective listening evaluations.  The eye pattern, generally correlated (but not in every case) pretty well with the subjective evaluation.

I must admit, I have heard significant differences between USB cables, even with a DAC with full galvanic isolation, with clocks and re-clocking on the clean side (my only explanation would be for low level noise effects such as what Alex mentions, ground bounce, maybe resonances, somehow modulating noise floors and getting through to clocks, DAC inputs, and analog circuits).  I am skeptical of high end USB cables which are "hand made".  A high speed cable needs to be precisely made to meet bandwidth and impedance specifications.  There are high end USB cables from Nordost that are precision made by custom built machines here in the US.  They also specify exactly how the cables are constructed, so you know what you are getting.  Of course they also make the very expensive Valhalla 2 USB, it is too bad this one is not more affordable.

If one wants to hear two USB cables which are very different, try the LUSH vs. Akustik Referenz, huge difference in presentation between these two.

 

Akustik Referenz: very incisive, precise transients, vanishing noise floor (reverb tails go on longer), lots of ambience, vivid        

                                levels of dynamic shading, not bright in itself, but might not be tolerated in a bright system.  Still, great

                                timbre and tone.  

 

LUSH: bold, slower transients, detailed but somewhat subdued, very rich musical timbres think very much wood to a cello.  Big

            sounding, with big macro dynamics, but less detailed micro dynamics.  Could be just the thing for slightly forward

            systems, or those really preferring a "musical" cable (for lack of a better word, sorry). 

[m3lraaHnevetS]

I can confirm Barrows findings regarding these cables. the name is Inakustik btw

In my system Curious cable sounds closer to the Lush than to the Inakustik, with the Curious sounding just a bit cleaner than the Lush. 

[Albrecht]

12 hours ago, Blake said:

 

I believe your comment that "he is correct - no reason to pay big bucks for a simple LRC network" is outside of this thread. 

 

Isn't that similar to saying there is a point at which a solidly built sensibly-priced usb cable cannot be improved upon in terms of sound quality?  Or am I reading too much in to your comment? 

 

 

Hi Blake,

How are you liking your Sablon USB cable? I am running a Sonore ultra-Rendu and also for amplification, a BC204. Considering the Sablon, - or maybe replacing my Audio Sensibilities SPDIF with a Cardas SPDIF. (Don't mean to hijack the OP here, as the subject is USB cables).

[Sal1950]

13 hours ago, Blake said:

 

It is totally cool with all of us if you agree with Sal.  Honestly.  All we (actually Reverendo, the OP, with his initial post) ask is that you take this sort of discussion to another thread.  

 

Pretty please, with sugar on top, and a sprinkling of rainbows, kisses and unicorns.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Yes. One of his own threads where he can  forcibly steer the thread to the conclusion that he desires.

 

Isn't that what the OP posts asks for,  a censored thread where no other opinions are welcome. Only those who believe that a properly designed data cable can have an effect on the analog output of a DAC without ever effecting the data stream?

The readers of this site deserve something more, something better that the results of sighted imaginary listening tests. There are two sides to this story, and only one is based on supportable facts and results.

 

[reverendo]

for the first time since the existence of this thread I would like to advise people to not feed the troll. ??

thanks 

[Blake]

17 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

Hi Blake,

How are you liking your Sablon USB cable? I am running a Sonore ultra-Rendu and also for amplification, a BC204. Considering the Sablon, - or maybe replacing my Audio Sensibilities SPDIF with a Cardas SPDIF. (Don't mean to hijack the OP here, as the subject is USB cables).

 

Hi Albrecht.  Hey, I don't encounter too many other Blue Circle amp users, that is cool!  I have personally found greater sonic impact/differences in usb cables than in my SPDIF or AES cable experiments so I would go usb, but that's just me.

 

I am hesitant to gush too much about the Sablon and sound like a nut job, but it is everything I could want in terms of sonics.   I don't think there is one cable that will satisfy all users, but I would theoretically wager that the very strong majority of customers who try this cable will end up keeping it. 

 

I am not great with descriptions, but in my system, the Sablon combines all of the best attributes in Barrows' descriptions of the Lush and the Inakustik cables (see 5 posts above), without any of the negatives.  I am obsessively picky about sound, I have owned some great usb cables but the Sablon beats them all.  Of course, everyone is different the only way to know is to try for yourself, but they do have a money back guaranty.  

 

 

[Albrecht]

12 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Hi Albrecht.  Hey, I don't encounter too many other Blue Circle amp users, that is cool!  I have personally found greater sonic impact/differences in usb cables than in my SPDIF or AES cable experiments so I would go usb, but that's just me.

 

I am hesitant to gush too much about the Sablon and sound like a nut job, but it is everything I could want in terms of sonics.   I don't think there is one cable that will satisfy all users, but I would theoretically wager that the very strong majority of customers who try this cable will end up keeping it. 

 

I am not great with descriptions, but in my system, the Sablon combines all of the best attributes in Barrows' descriptions of the Lush and the Inakustik cables (see 5 posts above), without any of the negatives.  I am obsessively picky about sound, I have owned some great usb cables but the Sablon beats them all.  Of course, everyone is different the only way to know is to try for yourself, but they do have a money back guaranty.  

 

 

Hi Blake,

I love the BC204 and also have a couple of CS integrateds that are a great value too.

Thanks for the details, and thoughts on the Sablon. Appreciate it.

Cheers,

[Ralf11]

13 hours ago, barrows said:

Yeah, I have seen the HI Fi News USB cable tests with both eye pattern measurements and subjective listening evaluations.  The eye pattern, generally correlated (but not in every case) pretty well with the subjective evaluation.

I must admit, I have heard significant differences between USB cables, even with a DAC with full galvanic isolation, with clocks and re-clocking on the clean side (my only explanation would be for low level noise effects such as what Alex mentions, ground bounce, maybe resonances, somehow modulating noise floors and getting through to clocks, DAC inputs, and analog circuits).  I am skeptical of high end USB cables which are "hand made".  A high speed cable needs to be precisely made to meet bandwidth and impedance specifications.  There are high end USB cables from Nordost that are precision made by custom built machines here in the US.  They also specify exactly how the cables are constructed, so you know what you are getting.  Of course they also make the very expensive Valhalla 2 USB, it is too bad this one is not more affordable.

If one wants to hear two USB cables which are very different, try the LUSH vs. Akustik Referenz, huge difference in presentation between these two.

 

Akustik Referenz: very incisive, precise transients, vanishing noise floor (reverb tails go on longer), lots of ambience, vivid        

                                levels of dynamic shading, not bright in itself, but might not be tolerated in a bright system.  Still, great

                                timbre and tone.  

 

LUSH: bold, slower transients, detailed but somewhat subdued, very rich musical timbres think very much wood to a cello.  Big

            sounding, with big macro dynamics, but less detailed micro dynamics.  Could be just the thing for slightly forward

            systems, or those really preferring a "musical" cable (for lack of a better word, sorry). 

 

would you be willing to substitute big, round tones for 'musical'? (I've been reading a nice book on jazz...)

 

maybe a Lush would go well with Maggies or electrostats?

 

and, have yo heard the Sablon?

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

The readers of this site deserve something more, something better that the results of sighted imaginary listening tests. There are two sides to this story, and only one is based on supportable facts and results.

 

 The readers of this site deserve more than your ill informed comments.

 You have NO idea how many members perform these tests. Many members do these tests under NON SIGHTED conditions with others making the changes WITHOUT advising them of what they have done.

 Even other family members are often asked to assist in this respect when expensive items are being evaluated.

 

P.S.

 I just noticed that the OP has requested not to feed the TROLL. 

I have little doubt that  he will ask Admin to remove any further attempts by you or others to disrupt this thread that he started.

[barrows]

On 8/1/2018 at 1:49 PM, Ralf11 said:

 

would you be willing to substitute big, round tones for 'musical'? (I've been reading a nice book on jazz...)

 

maybe a Lush would go well with Maggies or electrostats?

 

and, have yo heard the Sablon?

I have not heard the Sablon, as mentioned I am skeptical about "hand made" high speed data cables as making cables by hand does not support the precision necessary for really accurate impedance and high bandwidth.

[Allan F]

2 minutes ago, barrows said:

I have not heard the Sablon, as mentioned I am skeptical about "hand made" high speed data cables as making cables by hand does not support the precision necessary for really accurate impedance and high bandwidth.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but why isn't it possible to accurately measure these characteristics when building "hand made" data cables?

[barrows]

25 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Pardon my ignorance, but why isn't it possible to accurately measure these characteristics when building "hand made" data cables?

I never suggested measuring was not possible?  I am unclear as to what your point is?

 

To achieve a tight characteristic impedance in a cable requires very precise spacing of the conductors, and precise relationships of the conductors to the dielectric and shield(s).  Achieving this would be very difficult to achieve, if not impossible, via a "hand made" approach.

[HumanMedia]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

 

To achieve a tight characteristic impedance in a cable requires very precise spacing of the conductors, and precise relationships of the conductors to the dielectric and shield(s).  Achieving this would be very difficult to achieve, if not impossible, via a "hand made" approach.

 

And what is disappointing is many of the boutique hand made USB offerings, pride themselves and even use it in their marketing spiel, that they use cabling that is out of spec “thick copper strands” and “high speed data cabling” (100ohm).

 

And looking at those HiFi News cable eye patterns, the cables I have empirically bought or trialled, and didn’t like have bad eye patterns, the ‘cheap’ cable I keep coming back to despite its flaws actually performs quite well. I now don’t think this is a coincidence - for my personal tastes anyway. 

 

 

[Allan F]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

I never suggested measuring was not possible?  I am unclear as to what your point is?

 

I misunderstood why "tight characteristic impedance in a cable" was difficult if not impossible to achieve in a "hand made" cable, and wrongly assumed it was because of difficulty in measuring the characteristic.

[christoph]

15 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

And looking at those HiFi News cable eye patterns, the cables I have empirically bought or trialled, and didn’t like have bad eye patterns, the ‘cheap’ cable I keep coming back to despite its flaws actually performs quite well. I now don’t think this is a coincidence - for my personal tastes anyway. 

 

 

 

Which is your "cheap" cable you keep coming back and what are the other cables you have tried?

 

Sorry if you already posted this info already and I might have overread it.

[Blake]

18 hours ago, barrows said:

To achieve a tight characteristic impedance in a cable requires very precise spacing of the conductors, and precise relationships of the conductors to the dielectric and shield(s).  Achieving this would be very difficult to achieve, if not impossible, via a "hand made" approach.

 

And yet, if you scan through this thread over the years, it seems that the majority of the sonically favored usb cable are from the hand-made camp (Light Harmonic, Lush, Curious, TotalDac, etc.).   I have owned quite a few Nordost cables over the years and liked them.  However, the one Nordost usb cable I owned (Blue Heaven), was nice but I actually found the Mapleshade usb cable to offer more clarity and detail.

[Sal1950]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:23 PM, sandyk said:

 

 The readers of this site deserve more than your ill informed comments.

 You have NO idea how many members perform these tests. Many members do these tests under NON SIGHTED conditions with others making the changes WITHOUT advising them of what they have done.

 Even other family members are often asked to assist in this respect when expensive items are being evaluated.

Links and evidence please. And you know the standards for a proper DBT listening test, matched levels, etc, etc.

No where on the net has supportable evidence ever been presented. A relatively easy task to accomplish which the subjective community avoids like the Black Plague.  Daily tons of subjective audio reports are posted on the web with basically zero evidence and no one willing to perform public over-sighted tests So far the most famous DBT are a few that have been done at audioshows and in youtube videos that have been shown to be falsified.

Is That All You Got?