LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[hasos]

Has anyone compared Chord Qutest + Usbridge vs Lumin D2 (with internal dac)? I will be grateful for the opinion.

[mc]

Hi,

 

when (occasionally) streaming sound to Lumin U1 mini via Airplay, and having upsampling to DSD128 enabled on U1 mini (which is my usual setup), there is strong "clicking” noise added over played sound. When upsampling on U1 is turned off, this "clicking” sound disappears. When streaming directly from U1 (with or without upsampling), no "clicking", so it seems related to Airplay only.

Have someone experienced something similar or does it seem I have something wrong in my setup?

 

BTW, would be there any chance of adding Airplay 2 support to U1 mini sometimes in the future?

 

Thanks,

  (mc)

[jcn3]

5 hours ago, mc said:

Hi,

 

when (occasionally) streaming sound to Lumin U1 mini via Airplay, and having upsampling to DSD128 enabled on U1 mini (which is my usual setup), there is strong "clicking” noise added over played sound. When upsampling on U1 is turned off, this "clicking” sound disappears. When streaming directly from U1 (with or without upsampling), no "clicking", so it seems related to Airplay only.

Have someone experienced something similar or does it seem I have something wrong in my setup?

 

BTW, would be there any chance of adding Airplay 2 support to U1 mini sometimes in the future?

 

Thanks,

  (mc)

 

doesn't airplay max out at 16/44?

[ehoz]

Another great comparison I am interested in is the LuminUi mini vs Innuos zenith....

[Perfect sense]

1 hour ago, ehoz said:

Another great comparison I am interested in is the LuminUi mini vs Innuos zenith....

 

These are two quite different alternatives.

 

Lumin U1 Mini is a streamer only with a complete set of digital outputs and Roon endpoint support.

 

Innuos Zenith is a streamer and server (with internal storage) with USB output only which can be configured as a Roon server (and endpoint) by a flick of a switch.

 

Price wise - the Lumin U1 Mini is closer to the Innuos Zen (rather than the Zenith) with 1TB internal storage.

 

Most people choose one before the other based on functionality and specs.

 

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

[knecht]

I know Amazon Music HD was just launched. Are there any plans to add the service to Lumin?

[wklie]

@mcPlease fallback to firmware 11.4 and check whether AirPlay to DSD128 upsampling exhibits the same behavior in your setup.  This may be caused by WiFi speed irregularity.

 

I'll retest it with current firmware in our setup, hopefully some time next week.

[wobba]

I’m interested in a Lumin player and would like to to see detailed measurements (eg. THD graph, SINAD) for the T2 and X1. These are expensive units relative to what is available today and it would be good to know that they perform, technically, at a level commensurate with their price. 

[stellablues]

1 hour ago, wobba said:

I’m interested in a Lumin player and would like to to see detailed measurements (eg. THD graph, SINAD) for the T2 and X1. These are expensive units relative to what is available today and it would be good to know that they perform, technically, at a level commensurate with their price. 

Agreed. 

I have a D1 and have thought about sending it to Audio Science Review for testing but if Lumin has some specifications and charts of measures i would like to seem as well. 

[Superdad]

18 minutes ago, stellablues said:

I have a D1 and have thought about sending it to Audio Science Review for testing ...

 

I'll save you the trouble. Amir will just say that it measures worse and sounds the same as his favorite $150 DAC fed by his laptop. 

[One and a half]

36 minutes ago, stellablues said:

Agreed. 

I have a D1 and have thought about sending it to Audio Science Review for testing but if Lumin has some specifications and charts of measures i would like to seem as well. 

Gee I couldn’t live a day without a vital link in the chain missing, let alone several weeks in the hands of a stranger. 

Agree with @Superdad comment about the $150 dac, although as an Ethernet streamer, the USB is out of the equation as ASR can’t measure effects of Ethernet transmission, come to think of it, can’t measure USB effects either, lmao.

[sojer2005]

They (asr) have recently grilled PS Audio DirectStream DAC - which is at 6000 $.

[wobba]

1 hour ago, sojer2005 said:

They (asr) have recently grilled PS Audio DirectStream DAC - which is at 6000 $.

The PS Audio DS is a different beast. It seems to have been cobbled together by a wizard that has cut his own custom code. It also uses cheap output transformers. He suggests that he would have used higher quality transformers, with reduced distortion, if budget permitted. 
The Lumin T2 and X1 use ESS chips.  The best units measured by ASR seem to use ESS 90xx chips so I expect the Lumin units to measure well.

[wobba]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I'll save you the trouble. Amir will just say that it measures worse and sounds the same as his favorite $150 DAC fed by his laptop. 

 

I wasn’t sure how to take ASR, at first. It seemed a bit amateurish. However, after seeing highly regarded engineers like Bruno Putzeys (Ncore, Purifi) and John Siau (Benchmark) take the time to post, at length, their thoughts and responses to reviews of their products, it has been elevated to a very high level, in my estimation. I am fed up with qualitative review sites that wax lyrical. 

[stellablues]

i sent my codex to amirm and had measurements taken. they were objectively not ideal. i don’t blame amirm that they came out poor. since manufacturers will not submit measurements, why would you you blame and vilify the messenger? if the manufacturer submitted measures and so did asr and they were contradictory i could see grounds for some discussion but if only one party is willing to put their neck out why would they ever be the party at fault? “killing the messenger” has never seemed to be on the right side of history if the message is sound. i swapped the codex for the d1 due to the subjective accounts but would like some objective measures to add data to this journey. are we so insecure as to not want some data? 

[wklie]

16 hours ago, wobba said:

I’m interested in a Lumin player and would like to to see detailed measurements (eg. THD graph, SINAD) for the T2 and X1.

 

Lumin X1 measurements done by a magazine, not us:

https://stereo-magazine.com/archive/articles/2019/21/sophisticated-from-top-to-bottom-70456

 

Just a few weeks ago a user told me he measured Lumin D2 against the internal DAC of his amp.  He found that the measurements do not differ much but the D2 sounds clearly better.

[erniejade]

13 minutes ago, wklie said:

 

Lumin X1 measurements done by a magazine, not us:

https://stereo-magazine.com/archive/articles/2019/21/sophisticated-from-top-to-bottom-70456

 

Just a few weeks ago a user told me he measured Lumin D2 against the internal DAC of his amp.  He found that the measurements do not differ much but the D2 sounds clearly better.

 

 

Thata one thing  i have learned  over the years. You cannot  go just by measurement, you need to hear it and how it sounds to you.  I have  purchased  things that had amazing  measurements but sounded cold thin and not enjoyable.    

[wobba]

6 hours ago, erniejade said:

 

 

Thata one thing  i have learned  over the years. You cannot  go just by measurement, you need to hear it and how it sounds to you.  I have  purchased  things that had amazing  measurements but sounded cold thin and not enjoyable.    

 

6 hours ago, erniejade said:

 

 

Thata one thing  i have learned  over the years. You cannot  go just by measurement, you need to hear it and how it sounds to you.  I have  purchased  things that had amazing  measurements but sounded cold thin and not enjoyable.    

I simply asked for measurements. I did not say that I would not audition. Measurements are very useful in that they provide a readily accessible benchmark that allows me to quickly rule out a unit that may have issues. 

[wklie]

3 hours ago, wobba said:

I simply asked for measurements. I did not say that I would not audition. Measurements are very useful in that they provide a readily accessible benchmark that allows me to quickly rule out a unit that may have issues.

 

I've read a really well regarded amp from another manufacturer measured very poorly.  I suspect the subjective good SQ it makes (according to some of its users including former tube lovers) come from the "issues", in a similar fashion to people preferring second harmonic distortion from single ended triode (SET).  It also seems to me a forum favorite USB DAC here (that many users really like) did not measure too well either.

[wobba]

4 hours ago, wklie said:

 

I've read a really well regarded amp from another manufacturer measured very poorly.  I suspect the subjective good SQ it makes (according to some of its users including former tube lovers) come from the "issues", in a similar fashion to people preferring second harmonic distortion from single ended triode (SET).  It also seems to me a forum favorite USB DAC here (that many users really like) did not measure too well either.

Fair point, however, it is a known fact (and expected) that a tube amp will have second harmonic distortion. This is not expected with a dac since it will limit the resolution of the dac. If a dac designer intends to flavour the sound by adding tube-like distortion, this should be made clear up front. What is your philosophy in terms of dac design and how to do you assess/measure the outcome? It would be really helpful to know. 

[wklie]

I think we take an engineering-driven team-based approach that balances market needs, measurements and listening.  Our 6V rms balanced output voltage is now comparable to competitors and may be used with passive preamp configurations.  When we were designing the Lumin X1 a certain type of circuit feature was abandoned due to measuring worse despite conventional audio wisdom.  Our custom clocking scheme (not the default way a ESS DAC chip is meant to be used) is determined by listening tests.

[wobba]

Thanks for providing this insight. I recently auditioned a T2 and was very impressed

[wklie]

On 9/20/2019 at 7:50 AM, knecht said:

I know Amazon Music HD was just launched. Are there any plans to add the service to Lumin?

 

We'll investigate it, but no promise.

[wklie]

Lumin app is updated for iOS 13.

[wklie]

Lumin T2 review by SoundStage! simplifi:
https://www.soundstagesimplifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/103-lumin-t2-network-music-player