PedroS Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Disclaimer: I have nothing personal, nor against the company, or the item, per se, but against Denafrips customer support I have bought a Terminator plus in black, through their oficial European website (https://www.denafrips.eu). According to the website we have 14 days to trial, and according to European law we have 30 days to return any web order. I received it, and after my trial period, around two weeks, I recognised that the item didn't met my expectations. So I kindly ask for returning it. European site replied that will contact Denafrips and will answer me. I waited, but only my remind email I received the answer that Denafrips didn't consider such a re turn service for a special ordered item. I have contacted directly Denafrips (informing Europe seller), but still no answer. I would like to know how a Terminator plus in black, as advertised, can be considered a special ordered item, when such an information is not specified nor advertised? I don't consider this acceptable. I know my legal limitations, because going to court will far exceeds the item value, but I wish to warn potential new buyers about such a bad and misleading customer service. Again, I'm sorry to write down these lines, but they didn't gave me other option. Link to comment
nikolaos1969 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Hi, what was that u did not like it, e.g. sound quality? Link to comment
ecwl Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Hmm… I see now that the Denafrips Singapore website doesn’t talk about return policy. The Vinshine audio (US dealer/distributor) says absolutely no returns. it’s the European website that’s the worst and most confusing. Denafrips Europe website clearly states that it’s run by KVS audio. Denafrips Europe doesn’t talk about any return policies. But KVS audio website clearly states that everything they sell has a 14-day return policy. You have to wonder if they’re trying to cheat by having a separate Denafrips Europe website so they don’t have to honour their global company policy. and while I’m also curious what you didn’t like about the sound, and what other DACs you’ve compared it to, I 100% agree with your principles. If a company says they have a 14-day return policy no questions asked, then you should be able to return the product even if you just don’t like the black casing. Link to comment
PeterG Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Weird. When I look at the website it says no returns very clearly, for both US and Europe. After reading rave reviews, I considered buying a Terminator a few months ago. But I only buy from retailers that allow risk-free returns or reasonable restocking fees. I do not like the Denafrips policy, but it is their right to run their business as they wish. I do not think it is fair to criticize them for bad service on this point Return / Refund Policy We run an honest business, we strive to keep the cost low, therefore, effectively pass down the saving to you, our customer. We do not support return / refund of any product. Thank you for your kind understanding. davide256 1 Link to comment
ecwl Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, PeterG said: Weird. When I look at the website it says no returns very clearly, for both US and Europe. We must be looking at different websites. https://www.denafrips.eu/contact-us that page clearly has a sticker symbol actually that says 30-day money back guarantee. And https://kvsaudio.com/?page_id=909 this page clearly says 14-day full refund. Link to comment
PedroS Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 The first email from Denafrips Europe... I was not coming here if I had not the information... Hello Pedro , 1. please send us the connections which you will use with the aurender . In general , of course yes its compatible. 2. We will have it within 3-4 days in stock , both colours . 3. We will make 6290 euro DELIVERED to you in Lisbon . 4. The only company which offers 14 days money back is ours , so no problem . Full 3 years warranty applies. thank you , best Kamen Link to comment
Popular Post PeterG Posted July 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, ecwl said: We must be looking at different websites. https://www.denafrips.eu/contact-us that page clearly has a sticker symbol actually that says 30-day money back guarantee. And https://kvsaudio.com/?page_id=909 this page clearly says 14-day full refund. Very interesting--I think your problem is with KVS. KVS describes themselves as an agent for Vinshine, and describes Vinshine as the sole distributor for Denafrips. The quote I used above is from the Vinshine page https://www.vinshineaudio.com/terms?currency=EUR I do not know the credit card rules for Europe. In the US if you use a credit card, and the supplier does not deliver as promised, you can stop the credit card payment and the bank will help you. If your credit card lists KVS as the seller, you would have a good case. semente and 4est 2 Link to comment
davide256 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 1 minute ago, ecwl said: We must be looking at different websites. https://www.denafrips.eu/contact-us that page clearly has a sticker symbol actually that says 30-day money back guarantee. And https://kvsaudio.com/?page_id=909 this page clearly says 14-day full refund. Good for you that you noticed kvsaudio's faux pas. @PedroS do you have any options to legally report kvs audio with this as evidence? It's most likely an honest mistake, careless reuse of web boilerplate but might be leverage to get them to budge on a refund if you capture the page as evidence. I'd highly recommend you correct your title as its wrong, Denafrips is not at fault here. More accurate to say Bad customer support from KVS audio ( Denafrips sale) (I'm sorry they didn't give me any other option) ecwl 1 Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
PedroS Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, davide256 said: Good for you that you noticed kvsaudio's faux pas. @PedroS do you have any options to legally report kvs audio with this as evidence? It's most likely an honest mistake, careless reuse of web boilerplate but might be leverage to get them to budge on a refund if you capture the page as evidence. I'd highly recommend you correct your title as its wrong, Denafrips is not at fault here. More accurate to say Bad customer support from KVS audio ( Denafrips sale) (I'm sorry they didn't give me any other option) I think I should put both, as KVS, I have the emails, told they will ask Denafrips about this return, and the answer was: Denafrips doesn't accept return of this special order item. So, two things, 1st don't know if KVS contacted Denafrips, must I must rely on their word (?), and second "special order item??? And, as I stated before, I contacted Denafrips, and they didn't answer... Link to comment
Popular Post ecwl Posted July 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2021 1 minute ago, PedroS said: I think I should put both, as KVS, I have the emails, told they will ask Denafrips about this return, and the answer was: Denafrips doesn't accept return of this special order item. So, two things, 1st don't know if KVS contacted Denafrips, must I must rely on their word (?), and second "special order item??? No. I agree with @davide256 here. Denafrips (and Vinshine) have a no-return policy that KVS audio obviously knows about (or should know about). KVS as an independent dealer/distributor is allowed to offer whatever return policy they want. Because in theory, they can buy 30 Terminator Plus at distributor cost from Denafrips/Vinshine, and then expect 3-5 returns and then calculate how much they need to charge to still make money and offer a 14-day return to their own KVS customers. So to me, when you asked to return your Denafrips, KVS is trying to not honor KVS's own 14-day return policy and dump the problem to Denafrips. And of course, Denafrips is going to say, we don't have a return policy, because they don't. To me, KVS should eat the loss, give you money back and then sell your Denafrips used to recoup the loss (if any because they can probably still get a price above distributor/dealer cost for it even sold as used). opus101, shahed99, Sonic77 and 2 others 5 Link to comment
PedroS Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 Ok, I will correct the tittle, but how can I do it, as my 1st post doesn't have an edit option? Link to comment
davide256 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 1 minute ago, PedroS said: Ok, I will correct the tittle, but how can I do it, as my 1st post doesn't have an edit option? @The Computer Audiophile OP needs help to make a correction to thread title, having issue with promised return support from distributor The Computer Audiophile 1 Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, davide256 said: @The Computer Audiophile OP needs help to make a correction to thread title, having issue with promised return support from distributor Done. My guess is that KVS knew Denafrips offered no returns, because KVS even said in an email it was the only company offering a 14 day return policy. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Norton Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 If you bought a new item at a distance within the EU then the EU consumer rights directive applies regardless of the seller’s policy and to best of my knowledge you have 14 days in which to cancel your order and another 14 days in which to return the item (but check this yourself before acting). If after returning the item, the seller won’t refund your money, I’d take it up with your CC company or Paypal (where relevant). Link to comment
Currawong Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Personally, I'd not mess around. I'd return it (the address should be on the box or you can just ask them for their address) via a trackable, signed method and insist on a refund. Depending on your bank, you may have to give them a certain time frame in which to give you the refund before you can initiate a chargeback. Link to comment
PedroS Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 Alvin, from Denafrips, step in and wrote me an email clarifying Denafrips policy and pushing KVS to honor theirs. As a result, I got permission from KVS to return the Terminator, which i did, and today it landed on their facilities. Now I'm waiting for the reimbursement. I must say that today's HiFi sound it's not every one's sound, but when a Company stands behind their brand is a sound Company. PeterG 1 Link to comment
FIndingit Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 It’s refreshing to read not everyone worships the Terminator Plus. Say NO to ROON Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted July 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, FIndingit said: It’s refreshing to read not everyone worships the Terminator Plus. Ha! Agree, it’s refreshing to read this about all products. An array of opinions is always good. mav52, Sonic77, Exocer and 1 other 2 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
semente Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 You could try contacting Deco, but I am unsure whether they'll deal with international purchases: https://deco.pt "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
PedroS Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 Well, and the soap opera continues... As I told, the item arrived on KVS facilities Wednesday at lunch time. Today, Friday, they didn't yet have the time, as I've been told in my email answer, to evaluate the item. Tomorrow KVS will enter on their summer annual leave for 15 days, so, more two weeks to expect to be refunded... I hope it will happen... Link to comment
MarcelNL Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 refunds can take a while, while Bulgaria is in the EU I'd say you are lucky that Alvin backs his customers and pushes them to pay you back as I cannot imagine how difficult/impossible it likely is going to get your money back through the EU international law if the local seller refuses to....(there is a process but I doubt it works...and this is from experience) ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. Link to comment
skikirkwood Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Quote Be advised as a general rule all electronic units should be burned in for at least 200 hours ( 400-500 is better), and then you should judge the sound. Entertaining that they have a 14 day return policy, but recommend burning the unit in for 20 days. Just bought a Topping D10S ($99) and the sound is awesome. Link to comment
Norton Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 9 hours ago, MarcelNL said: I cannot imagine how difficult/impossible it likely is going to get your money back through the EU international law if the local seller refuses to. Now that the return has been accepted and providing order cancellation was within 14 days and actual return within a further 14 days and payment involved PayPal and/or a CC, if should be straightforward to get a refund from PP or the CC company if no refund forthcoming from vendor. Link to comment
MarcelNL Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 it should if it was...I was just saying that without paypal and or a CC getting the EU customer protection rights invoked may just be very hard.. I hope you like your topping D10s, I do however not see ANY relation to the Denafrips Terminator?? 200 hour burn in is real but after a few days, like 24/7 after a week you know how things will end up. ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. Link to comment
PedroS Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 To update you about this issue... KVS agreed to refund me. I have received the 1st part and should receive the 2nd next week. ASRMichael 1 Link to comment
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