Bad customer support from KVS Audio (I'm sorry they didn't give me any other option)

[PedroS]

Disclaimer: I have nothing personal, nor against the company, or the item, per se, but against Denafrips customer support

 

I have bought a Terminator plus in black, through their oficial European website (https://www.denafrips.eu).

According to the website we have 14 days to trial, and according to European law we have 30 days to return any web order.

I received it, and after my trial period, around two weeks, I recognised that the item didn't met my expectations.

So I kindly ask for returning it.

European site replied that will contact Denafrips and will answer me. I waited, but only my remind email I received the answer that Denafrips didn't consider such a re turn service for a special ordered item. I have contacted directly Denafrips (informing Europe seller), but still no answer.

I would like to know how a Terminator plus in black, as advertised, can be considered a special ordered item, when such an information is not specified nor advertised?

I don't consider this acceptable.

I know my legal limitations, because going to court will far exceeds the item value, but I wish to warn potential new buyers about such a bad and misleading customer service.

 

Again, I'm sorry to write down these lines, but they didn't gave me other option.

[nikolaos1969]

Hi, what was that u did not like it, e.g. sound quality?

[ecwl]

Hmm… I see now that the Denafrips Singapore website doesn’t talk about return policy. The Vinshine audio (US dealer/distributor) says absolutely no returns. 
 

it’s the European website that’s the worst and most confusing. Denafrips Europe website clearly states that it’s run by KVS audio. Denafrips Europe doesn’t talk about any return policies. But KVS audio website clearly states that everything they sell has a 14-day return policy. You have to wonder if they’re trying to cheat by having a separate Denafrips Europe website so they don’t have to honour their global company policy. 
 

and while I’m also curious what you didn’t like about the sound, and what other DACs you’ve compared it to, I 100% agree with your principles. If a company says they have a 14-day return policy no questions asked, then you should be able to return the product even if you just don’t like the black casing. 

[PeterG]

Weird.  When I look at the website it says no returns very clearly, for both US and Europe.  After reading rave reviews, I considered buying a Terminator a few months ago.  But I only buy from retailers that allow risk-free returns or reasonable restocking fees.  I do not like the Denafrips policy, but it is their right to run their business as they wish.  I do not think it is fair to criticize them for bad service on this point

 

Return / Refund Policy

 

We run an honest business, we strive to keep the cost low, therefore, effectively pass down the saving to you, our customer. We do not support return / refund of any product.

 

Thank you for your kind understanding.

 

[ecwl]

2 minutes ago, PeterG said:

Weird.  When I look at the website it says no returns very clearly, for both US and Europe. 

 

We must be looking at different websites. 
https://www.denafrips.eu/contact-us

that page clearly has a sticker symbol actually that says 30-day money back guarantee. And

https://kvsaudio.com/?page_id=909
this page clearly says 14-day full refund.

[PedroS]

The first email from Denafrips Europe...
I was not coming here if I had not the information...

 

Hello Pedro , 1. please send us the connections which you will use with the aurender . In general , of course yes its compatible. 2. We will have it within 3-4 days in stock , both colours . 3. We will make 6290 euro DELIVERED to you in Lisbon . 4. The only company which offers 14 days money back is ours , so no problem . Full 3 years warranty applies. thank you , best Kamen

[PeterG]

6 minutes ago, ecwl said:

We must be looking at different websites. 
https://www.denafrips.eu/contact-us

that page clearly has a sticker symbol actually that says 30-day money back guarantee. And

https://kvsaudio.com/?page_id=909
this page clearly says 14-day full refund.

 

Very interesting--I think your problem is with KVS.  KVS describes themselves as an agent for Vinshine, and describes Vinshine as the sole distributor for Denafrips.

 

The quote I used above is from the Vinshine page https://www.vinshineaudio.com/terms?currency=EUR

 

I do not know the credit card rules for Europe.  In the US if you use a credit card, and the supplier does not deliver as promised, you can stop the credit card payment and the bank will help you.  If your credit card lists KVS as the seller, you would have a good case.

[davide256]

1 minute ago, ecwl said:

We must be looking at different websites. 
https://www.denafrips.eu/contact-us

that page clearly has a sticker symbol actually that says 30-day money back guarantee. And

https://kvsaudio.com/?page_id=909
this page clearly says 14-day full refund.

Good for you that you noticed kvsaudio's faux pas.

 

@PedroS do you have any options to legally report kvs audio with this as evidence? It's most likely an honest mistake, careless reuse of web boilerplate but

might be leverage to get them to budge on a refund if you  capture the page as evidence. 

 

I'd highly recommend you correct your title as its wrong, Denafrips is not at fault here. More accurate to say

 

Bad customer support from KVS audio ( Denafrips sale) (I'm sorry they didn't give me any other option)

 

 

[PedroS]

5 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Good for you that you noticed kvsaudio's faux pas.

 

@PedroS do you have any options to legally report kvs audio with this as evidence? It's most likely an honest mistake, careless reuse of web boilerplate but

might be leverage to get them to budge on a refund if you  capture the page as evidence. 

 

I'd highly recommend you correct your title as its wrong, Denafrips is not at fault here. More accurate to say

 

Bad customer support from KVS audio ( Denafrips sale) (I'm sorry they didn't give me any other option)

 

 

I think I should put both, as KVS, I have the emails, told they will ask Denafrips about this return, and the answer was: Denafrips doesn't accept return of this special order item.
So, two things, 1st don't know if KVS contacted Denafrips, must I must rely on their word (?), and second "special order item???

And, as I stated before, I contacted Denafrips, and they didn't answer...

[ecwl]

1 minute ago, PedroS said:

I think I should put both, as KVS, I have the emails, told they will ask Denafrips about this return, and the answer was: Denafrips doesn't accept return of this special order item.
So, two things, 1st don't know if KVS contacted Denafrips, must I must rely on their word (?), and second "special order item???

No. I agree with @davide256 here. Denafrips (and Vinshine) have a no-return policy that KVS audio obviously knows about (or should know about). KVS as an independent dealer/distributor is allowed to offer whatever return policy they want. Because in theory, they can buy 30 Terminator Plus at distributor cost from Denafrips/Vinshine, and then expect 3-5 returns and then calculate how much they need to charge to still make money and offer a 14-day return to their own KVS customers. 

 

So to me, when you asked to return your Denafrips, KVS is trying to not honor KVS's own 14-day return policy and dump the problem to Denafrips. And of course, Denafrips is going to say, we don't have a return policy, because they don't. 

 

To me, KVS should eat the loss, give you money back and then sell your Denafrips used to recoup the loss (if any because they can probably still get a price above distributor/dealer cost for it even sold as used).

[PedroS]

Ok, I will correct the tittle, but how can I do it, as my 1st post doesn't have an edit option?

[davide256]

1 minute ago, PedroS said:

Ok, I will correct the tittle, but how can I do it, as my 1st post doesn't have an edit option?

@The Computer Audiophile   OP needs help to make a correction to thread title, having issue with  promised return support from distributor

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, davide256 said:

@The Computer Audiophile   OP needs help to make a correction to thread title, having issue with  promised return support from distributor

Done.

 

My guess is that KVS knew Denafrips offered no returns, because KVS even said in an email it was the only company offering a 14 day return policy. 

[Norton]

If you bought a new item at a distance within the EU then the EU consumer rights directive applies regardless of the seller’s policy and to best of my knowledge you have 14 days in which to cancel your order and another 14 days in which to return the item (but check this yourself before acting).

 

If after returning the item, the seller won’t refund your money, I’d take it up with your CC company or Paypal (where relevant).

 

 

[Currawong]

Personally, I'd not mess around. I'd return it (the address should be on the box or you can just ask them for their address) via a trackable, signed method and insist on a refund. Depending on your bank, you may have to give them a certain time frame in which to give you the refund before you can initiate a chargeback.

[PedroS]

Alvin, from Denafrips, step in and wrote me an email clarifying Denafrips policy and pushing KVS to honor theirs.

As a result, I got permission from KVS to return the Terminator, which i did, and today it landed on their facilities.

Now I'm waiting for the reimbursement.

 

I must say that today's HiFi sound it's not every one's sound, but when a Company stands behind their brand is a sound Company.

[FIndingit]

It’s refreshing to read not everyone worships the Terminator Plus. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, FIndingit said:

It’s refreshing to read not everyone worships the Terminator Plus. 

Ha! Agree, it’s refreshing to read this about all products. An array of opinions is always good. 

[semente]

You could try contacting Deco, but I am unsure whether they'll deal with international purchases:

 

https://deco.pt

[PedroS]

Well, and the soap opera continues...

 

As I told, the item arrived on KVS facilities Wednesday at lunch time. Today, Friday, they didn't yet have the time, as I've been told in my email answer, to evaluate the item.

Tomorrow KVS will enter on their summer annual leave for 15 days, so, more two weeks to expect to be refunded... 

I hope it will happen...

 

[MarcelNL]

refunds can take a while, while Bulgaria is in the EU I'd say you are lucky that Alvin backs his customers and pushes them to pay you back as I cannot imagine how difficult/impossible it likely is going to get your money back through the EU international law if the local seller refuses to....(there is a process but I doubt it works...and this is from experience)

[skikirkwood]

Quote

Be advised as a general rule all electronic units should be burned in for at least 200 hours ( 400-500 is better), and then you should judge the sound.

 

Entertaining that they have a 14 day return policy, but recommend burning the unit in for 20 days. Just bought a Topping D10S ($99) and the sound is awesome.

[Norton]

9 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

I cannot imagine how difficult/impossible it likely is going to get your money back through the EU international law if the local seller refuses to.

Now that the return has been accepted and providing order cancellation  was within 14 days and actual return within a further 14 days and payment involved PayPal and/or a CC, if should be straightforward  to get a refund from PP or the CC company if no refund forthcoming from vendor.

[MarcelNL]

it should if it was...I was just saying that without paypal and or a CC getting the EU customer protection rights invoked may just be very hard..

 

I hope you like your topping D10s, I do however not see ANY relation to the Denafrips Terminator??

 

200 hour burn in is real but after a few days, like 24/7 after a week you know how things will end up.

[PedroS]

To update you about this issue...

KVS agreed to refund me.

I have received the 1st part and should receive the 2nd next week.