ASR Audio Science Review forum YouTube Channel

[The Computer Audiophile]

P.S. There is no way anyone, including me the owner of this site, can gather truthful statistics like that on AS. Average time on site? Given that 45% of our users enable blocking of all tracking mechanisms, the fact that we removed all tracking code, and people using encrypted DNS in browsers like Firefox. it just isn't possible. 

[plissken]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

In true objective fashion, you've dropped what you believe is a truth bomb without any context, then made a subjective conclusion based on. 1/10th of the facts. Well done. 

 

Good, bad, or indifferent Amir has obviously struck a chord. The Alexa rankings are hard, objective, data. Going by that same data and the increasing trend line it represents only means there's an increasing audience for his content.

 

I don't see how I'm missing any context. Look at the dwell time in comparison to page view and then the bounce rate. It means that people are staying on pages longer. As it turns out humans (at least in the audio hobby) don't apparently have the attention span of a turnip.

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, sphinxsix said:

1. What's the average time you spend on listening to speakers or other gear while reviewing it.?

I generally keep a review sample in-and-out of the system for about 60 days.

 

1 hour ago, sphinxsix said:

2. How often the initial impressions from, let's say the first minute of listening are all you have to say after your listening tests about how particular gear sounds and can be expressed in one sentence.?

Only if it is terrible but, even then, it takes more time to (1) determine if there's something more I can do to improve it with regard to setup changes and (2) to be able to condense and define the impressions.  Competent stuff takes more time to characterize.

[semente]

4 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

I have no problems with measurements. I believe in them along with listening. I have participated in blind listening tests of DACs and ICs and PCs. In some I and others heard a difference, many times not. Always interesting. Nuff said.

I don’t find other people’s personal opinion and listening experience very useful.

I prefer to use measurements to shortlist equipment worth auditioning and then perform my own assessment.

[plissken]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

P.S. There is no way anyone, including me the owner of this site, can gather truthful statistics like that on AS. Average time on site? Given that 45% of our users enable blocking of all tracking mechanisms, the fact that we removed all tracking code, and people using encrypted DNS in browsers like Firefox. it just isn't possible. 

 

That's an interesting rebuttal. Let's extend this a bit. My experience leads me to believe that the average technical acuity of and ASR member is higher than here. That's not a slam BTW, both site have certain segments they are serving.

 

With that out of the way I would say the DNT, encrypted DNS, Black Hole DNS, Layer 4 - 7 filtering is something that more ASR vs AS users would normally do. So in that respect ASR Alexa rankings could be under-reported.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, plissken said:

 

That's an interesting rebuttal.

Do you know how Alexa collects stats? It says much more about the users browsing than it does the site. Alexa is famous for using web browser plug-ins to collect this info. I'd say the AS crowd isn't known to have a lot of browser plugins that send info to Amazon. 

[sphinxsix]

6 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I generally keep a review sample in-and-out of the system for about 60 days.

 

Only if it is terrible but, even then, it takes more time to (1) determine if there's something more I can do to improve it with regard to setup changes and (2) to be able to condense and define the impressions.  Competent stuff takes more time to characterize.

 

Thank you, I hope everyone gets my point.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Good, bad, or indifferent Amir has obviously struck a chord. The Alexa rankings are hard, objective, data. Going by that same data and the increasing trend line it represents only means there's an increasing audience for his content.

 

I don't see how I'm missing any context. Look at the dwell time in comparison to page view and then the bounce rate. It means that people are staying on pages longer. As it turns out humans (at least in the audio hobby) don't apparently have the attention span of a turnip.

Again, this data isn't accurate for AS. I have no idea about his data, his users, or what is enabled over there to allow collection of data. 

 

The sites are like apples and oranges. I have zero interest in recording the measurements for 500 DAC that all measure below the threshold of human hearing. I went down the path of getting an AP, but soon discovered there really isn't anything to measure that's of interest to music listeners. There is a large engineering crowd interested in stuff like that and also on DIY audio sites. that isn't AS type of stuff. 

[plissken]

I'm telling posters here that what ever it is he's doing it's working. I would personally take a page out of his play book:

 

 

[plissken]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

but soon discovered there really isn't anything to measure that's of interest to music listeners.

 

It certainly wouldn't hurt to expand your audience draw.... I'd be all for that content here. It's partly why I thought you ordered an AP and started the Objectify sub-forum.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, plissken said:

I'm telling posters here that what ever it is he's doing it's working. I would personally take a page out of his play book:

 

 

 

1 minute ago, plissken said:

 

It certainly wouldn't hurt to expand your audience draw.... I'd be all for that content here. It's partly why I thought you ordered an AP and started the Objectify sub-forum.

 

I was going to go down that path, but there's nothing to see there. If I wanted to expand my audience at all costs like that, I'd start covering very inexpensive products like ASR. I just don't have an interest in that stuff.

 

Walmart has a lot of customers. That doesn't mean Target should emulate them just to get more people. 

[plissken]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Walmart has a lot of customers. That doesn't mean Target should emulate them just to get more people. 

Fair enough.

[sphinxsix]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Walmart has a lot of customers.

 

As does Fiat..

(symbolically speaking, there are good fiats)

 

[plissken]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

covering very inexpensive products like ASR. I just don't have an interest in that stuff.

 

This is an interesting introspection. I gotta ask why not? Or asked another way you only have interest in providing insight into really expensive gear?

[JoeWhip]

29 minutes ago, semente said:

I don’t find other people’s personal opinion and listening experience very useful.

I prefer to use measurements to shortlist equipment worth auditioning and then perform my own assessment.

I don’t disagree, but I would think that you should listen too, no? Amir doesn’t listen, just goes by the numbers, which may or may not tell the true story.

[semente]

3 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

I don’t disagree, but I would think that you should listen too, no? Amir doesn’t listen, just goes by the numbers, which may or may not tell the true story.

You can ignore his comments and opinions. It’s what I do.

There’s valuable information in the data that he collects.

[plissken]

10 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

I don’t disagree, but I would think that you should listen too, no? Amir doesn’t listen, just goes by the numbers, which may or may not tell the true story.

 

Again, if you'd only ask Amir, his primary objective (pun intended) is data. Not subjective prose. You can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting those sorts of reviews.

[JoeWhip]

Sure and you consider that even if I find that his measurements are weighted towards a given opinion. In a hobby with tons of choices, I can gather info on measurments to decide what to audition and listen too. The gang over at ASR crap all over the Yggy. If I bought into the measurement only viewpoint I would missed out of years of listening enjoyment.

[The Computer Audiophile]

20 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

This is an interesting introspection. I gotta ask why not? Or asked another way you only have interest in providing insight into really expensive gear?

I care a lot about things that just can’t be done inexpensively. Build quality, first class support, companies that cater to this niche, product / component sourcing, model longevity, etc...

[sphinxsix]

 

IME measurements often correlate with results of listening tests, in many cases - don't or they don't explain the listening impressions.

I often say - I've never heard two identically sounding cables but I've heard two audio devices identical inside and sounding different (Marantz and Philips stuff, Marantz was obviously more expensive and sounded better) 

As for buying gear I start with trustworthy magazines or journalists (and there aren't many of these) and mainly their listening tests results.

I had used a tube amp which sounded great and which possibly (judging by similar ones) had THD of 3% or more..

I loved it. Quite subjectively..

 

[plissken]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I care a lot about things that just can’t be done inexpensively. Build quality, first class support, companies that cater to this niche, product / component sourcing, model longevity, etc...

 

What is your metric for this? If Alexa rankings can't be trusted then I think that same shoe fits here.

 

I now have a $460 SMSL SU-9 DAC.  My prior Emotiva DC-1 was going on 10 years old and still going strong. This would also not fit your criteria as far as price. Both worked right out of the box and zero problems.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, sphinxsix said:

Thank you, I hope everyone gets my point.

I have no idea what your  point is because I was not following this thread.

[The Computer Audiophile]

33 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

What is your metric for this? If Alexa rankings can't be trusted then I think that same shoe fits here.

 

I now have a $460 SMSL SU-9 DAC.  My prior Emotiva DC-1 was going on 10 years old and still going strong. This would also not fit your criteria as far as price. Both worked right out of the box and zero problems.

 

Not everything can be boiled down to a metric. 

 

As an example of what I mean when I talk about things that just can't be done inexpensively, look at what dCS does. Very low volume, high build quality, great product support, models updated for at least ten years via software/firmware, all built and sourced in the UK, fit and finish is exquisite, helped created the DoP standard, thus offering it long before other companies even thought to copy it, same with asynchronous USB, employees paid living wages, etc...

 

I don't think I'm being crazy here. This all seems pretty straight forward. I don't value high prices, I value things that end up contributing to higher prices. 

[sphinxsix]

1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I have no idea what your  point is because I was not following this thread.

 

No need to, I know you get it but I was worried about some other folks.

 

And here..

1 hour ago, sphinxsix said:

 

IME measurements often correlate with results of listening tests, in many cases - don't or they don't explain the listening impressions.

I often say - I've never heard two identically sounding cables but I've heard two audio devices identical inside and sounding different (Marantz and Philips stuff, Marantz was obviously more expensive and sounded better) 

As for buying gear I start with trustworthy magazines or journalists (and there aren't many of these) and mainly their listening tests results.

I had used a tube amp which sounded great and which possibly (judging by similar ones) had THD of 3% or more..

I loved it. Quite subjectively..

 

..my point is - IMO there is no audio science that really works.

Maybe yet.

 

 

33 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

As an example of what I mean when I talk about things that just can't be done inexpensively, look at what dCS does. Very low volume, high build quality, great product support, models updated for at least ten years via software/firmware, all built and sourced in the UK, fit and finish is exquisite, helped created the DoP standard, thus offering it long before other companies even thought to copy it, same with asynchronous USB, employees paid living wages, etc...

 

And it even sounds good..

 

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

I don’t disagree, but I would think that you should listen too, no? Amir doesn’t listen, just goes by the numbers, which may or may not tell the true story.

 

What do you mean he just goes by numbers?

 

He shares numbers but how does that suggest he "goes by" them?