ASR Audio Science Review forum YouTube Channel

[JoeWhip]

He makes his recommendation solely using his numbers, not listening.

[plissken]

15 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

He makes his recommendation solely using his numbers, not listening.

 

I personally don't have any issue if you like an R2R or multi-bit DAC vs DS. BUT when there is a clear difference in measurement data (linearity, jitter, mains suppression, noise floor etc) it is just data.

 

Amir has a preference for a 'clean martini'. If you like a dirty martini well he has you covered there too. Just don't argue that you have a high fidelity device. If you have a preference for Tube, R2R, Multi-bit distortion profiles knock your self out. Know what you purchased, why you purchased it, and how it affects the sound.

 

Knowledge is power.

[Don Hills]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

... all built and sourced in the UK ...

 

I was surprised to see that listed as a positive attribute. ☺️

[JoeWhip]

Sorry plisskin the Yggy sounds fantastic. Not a high fidelity device my ass. This condescending know it all attitude is why I left ASR.

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, plissken said:

Amir has a preference for a 'clean martini'

Preferences aren’t objective. 

[plissken]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

As an example of what I mean when I talk about things that just can't be done inexpensively, look at what dCS does. Very low volume, high build quality, great product support, models updated for at least ten years via software/firmware, all built and sourced in the UK, fit and finish is exquisite, helped created the DoP standard, thus offering it long before other companies even thought to copy it, same with asynchronous USB, employees paid living wages, etc...

 

What DCS does is done all over the place by other manufacturers all the time. For $14,000 to $40,000 I like to throw in a 10 year software / firmware guarantee also.

You ever see the Bourne Identity were he gets a ride for $10K and the driver likes to throw in a coffee and croissant too? 

 

I would say that RME, Matrix Audio, Benchmark all have engineers that don't arrive at work on a short yellow bus. Maybe their marketers do....

 

I'll put this out there: If a DCS measures the same I've no problem submitting it and another like measuring unit to a blind test. I'll take a Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro at $2K and if I need to in 10 years time spend another $2K for the unit with the updated software.

[plissken]

18 minutes ago, Don Hills said:

 

I was surprised to see that listed as a positive attribute. ☺️

 

I remember when every Jaguar came with a free oil spot.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

What DCS does is done all over the place by other manufacturers all the time. For $14,000 to $40,000 I like to throw in a 10 year software / firmware guarantee also.

You ever see the Bourne Identity were he gets a ride for $10K and the driver likes to throw in a coffee and croissant too? 

 

I would say that RME, Matrix Audio, Benchmark all have engineers that don't arrive at work on a short yellow bus. Maybe their marketers do....

 

I'll put this out there: If a DCS measures the same I've no problem submitting it and another like measuring unit to a blind test. I'll take a Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro at $2K and if I need to in 10 years time spend another $2K for the unit with the updated software.

Please stick to the facts. Objective data rather than anecdotes. 
 

please tell me which Benchmark product models have been available for purchase new for 10 years and received new features via firmware, not just bug fixes. 
 

Facts please. 

[plissken]

18 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

Sorry plisskin the Yggy sounds fantastic. Not a high fidelity device my ass. This condescending know it all attitude is why I left ASR.

 

I never said it didn't to your ears. You like what you like. If you like the Yggy, and understand Amir's measurements then that should help you find other gear that exhibits that behavior that you'll enjoy.

 

Hell maybe my preference would be for the Yggy. I haven't heard one as of yet.  So I haven't made any statements about actual sound. Just what the data shows.

[The Computer Audiophile]

There’s more to life than Walmart and blind testing. You get your tea from a local shop @plissken . Why? Walmart has it cheaper. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, plissken said:

 

Hell maybe my preference would be for the Yggy. I haven't heard one as of yet.  So I haven't made any statements about actual sound. Just what the data shows.

Here’s the thing. You would never listen to it because you don’t like it’s measurements. That’s not living, in my book. 

[plissken]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Please stick to the facts. Objective data rather than anecdotes. 
 

please tell me which Benchmark product models have been available for purchase new for 10 years and received new features via firmware, not just bug fixes. 
 

Facts please. 

 

I just stated the facts: I can get anywhere from 7 to 20 Matrix Audio Sabre X Pro's for the cost of various DCS DAC's. I'll take my chances with the 'sub par' support, build quality, reliability, software updates.

 

If 10 year's of software updates is worth $12,000 to $38,000 premium to anyone, whom I to argue?  Knock yourself out.

[plissken]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You get your tea from a local shop @plissken . Why? Walmart has it cheaper. 

 

The same teas that both carry walmart MAY have it cheaper. But often they don't since I purchase 150 grams loose leaf the local tea shop is generally priced better and they have 120+ variety lining the walls that Walmart doesn't.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, plissken said:

 

I just stated the facts: I can get anywhere from 7 to 20 Matrix Audio Sabre X Pro's for the cost of various DCS DAC's. I'll take my chances with the 'sub par' support, build quality, reliability, software updates.

 

If 10 year's of software updates is worth $12,000 to $38,000 premium to anyone, whom I to argue?  Knock yourself out.

You’re moving the goalposts, then dismissing what I value and the items that cost real dollars. 
 

Im still waiting on facts rather than preferences. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, plissken said:

 

The same teas that both carry walmart MAY have it cheaper. But often they don't since I purchase 150 grams loose leaf the local tea shop is generally priced better and they have 120+ variety lining the walls that Walmart doesn't.

Have you blind tested them? 

[plissken]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Here’s the thing. You would never listen to it because you don’t like it’s measurements. That’s not living, in my book. 

 

No, I had Carver tube gear at one point and liked solid state better. That was one of my wake up moments. Also why I can't get back into vinyl.

[The Computer Audiophile]

By the way, there’s a new black tea I have on the way. It looks like it could be fantastic. I’ll let you know :~)

[plissken]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You’re moving the goalposts, then dismissing what I value and the items that cost real dollars. 
 

Im still waiting on facts rather than preferences. 

 

I answered your question:

 

"

If 10 year's of software updates is worth $12,000 to $38,000 premium to anyone, whom I to argue?  Knock yourself out.

"

[sphinxsix]

23 minutes ago, Don Hills said:

 

I was surprised to see that listed as a positive attribute. ☺️

 

I don't know what it looks like now but IME gear 'Proudly Made in the UK' used to be the least reliable one. Remember a customer who pressed a $10k DPA DAC button and all its buttons collapsed inside 

 

7 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

I remember when every Jaguar came with a free oil spot.

 

And when Aston Martin was beginning to make their multi hundred kilo pounds top model, they hired quality specialists from Toyota, cause they knew that the third door slamming of a British car, regardless of its price tag, may happen be the one after they fall off 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, plissken said:

 

I answered your question:

 

"

If 10 year's of software updates is worth $12,000 to $38,000 premium to anyone, whom I to argue?  Knock yourself out.

"

You conveniently forgot all the other items I listed, that also make up the cost difference. 

[JoeWhip]

Hey, I just read the ingredients on a soup can for a soup I never tasted, yet I can tell just what it tastes like. Not.

[sphinxsix]

5 minutes ago, plissken said:

I purchase 150 grams loose leaf the local tea shop is generally priced better and they have 120+ variety lining the walls that Walmart doesn't.

 

As a tea aficionado I must applaude.

 

[plissken]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Have you blind tested them? 

Some yes: Celestial Seasoning Chai Rooibos and their Peppermint suck compared to my local tea shop. Also the local shop has a mix call Bashford Bedtime Brew that is just killer.

 

I'll send you some to see what you think.

 

[plissken]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You conveniently forgot all the other items I listed, that also make up the cost difference. 

 

No I haven't forgot. I just see them as red herrings after having a $499 10 year old DAC that is still working just fine. That includes channel balance, DC offset, and ac ripple

 

What good are software updates for a stable device? My point being is why spend $14,000 to $40,000 now when I could spend $2K every three years and be driving a brand new DAC with all the improvements?

[plissken]

4 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

Hey, I just read the ingredients on a soup can for a soup I never tasted, yet I can tell just what it tastes like. Not.

 

Well if one of the ingredients is bull shit I ain't eating it.