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asdf1000

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2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I don’t follow. 

 

If the Engineers of products we love are active on the forum and happy with Amir's measurements at what point does it seem silly that consumers of these products complain that measurements aren't everything?

 

In addition to the products I mentioned, Genelec, Neumann, KRK, RME, Focusrite (Gen3), Motu - these are some of the biggest names making the gear that make the music we listen to... getting recommendations by Amir.


Good engineering behind the products we love and behind the music we love.

 

What is the issue with Amir here?

 

It really makes no sense now.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

If the Engineers of products we love are active on the forum and happy with Amir's measurements at what point does it seem silly that consumers of these products complain that measurements aren't everything?

 

In addition to the products I mentioned, Genelec, Neumann, KRK, RME, Focusrite (Gen3), Motu - these are some of the biggest names making the gear that make the music we listen to... getting recommendations by Amir.


Good engineering behind the products we love and behind the music we love.

 

What is the issue with Amir here?

 

It really makes no sense now.

 

 

 

 

 


I still do t follow your logic. 300 Chinese DACs for $500 all measure great. If those engineers are on a site, why should I care?

 

Other engineers are interested in numbers and making sure their products are accurately portrayed online. That has absolutely nothing to do with the bigger picture. 
 

People who enjoy that stuff should go have fun with it. 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

At Christmas they do a Black fig cinnamon tea that is divine - very subtle and wonderful.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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Oh, I have bought my wife some expensive teas as she loves tea. Last time it was Pu-erh tea from 1960 - they still had some (that was the year I was born :D). It was quite complex and picked from a type of tea plant they do not use any more (a red-veined varietal).

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

That’s where we differ big time, but I don’t ridicule you for not caring about build quality, responsible product sourcing, local jobs, etc...

 

I'm not ridiculing you. If you believe your points that support $14k to $40k devices that reproduce pedestrian 20Hz to 20Khz then that is what you believe.

 

My red herring part comes into what you are saying about products that don't come with that price tag. That is support, build quality, longevity. If they could be $4999.00 and not $499 I'm not going to debate the Jobs point. Sorry I just don't accept that based on my experience. It's routine to get 10-12 years out of sub $1K electronics. My Samsung Plasma is going on 11 years old and showing no problems. My Sanyo PLV Z60 PJ is 11 years old and looks great with a bulb replacement. Both under the $1K mark.

 

Sorry that you read that as ridicule. I thought when I posted about the $499 DC-1 still going strong after 10 years that I answered that.

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12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I still do t follow your logic. 300 Chinese DACs for $500 all measure great. If those engineers are on a site, why should I care?

 

You're still talking about DACs and I said the site has moved well past and onto things that produce sound (speakers and headphones) and the things that drive those (amps).

 

You are right you shouldn't care about DACs ! DACs are solved by the competent Engineers - even by Schiit Audio now (they are sending DACs to Amir to measure and doing well). 

 

Not sure why you single out Chinese but you're not reading what I wrote before or conveniently ignoring - RME engineer is there and product measured superbly, Chord Qutest measured superbly. 

 

Benchmark DAC, superb.

 

Universal Audio's top end pro audio interface measured state of the art.

 

Please read my examples carefully and no need to bring Chinese into it? Even though many of them have solved the DAC performance thing too.

 

The funniest thing with the Schiit example is that the Engineers of Schiit products listened and changed their engineering and now send gear to Amir. But the consumers are still stuck in their mindset. 

 

i find that comical

 

But move beyond DACs. And forget about the engineers being on the forum if that is distracting you.

 

KEF R3, Genelec monitors, KRK monitors, Neumann monitors, Sennheiser headphones, Dan Clarke headphones, Purifi based amps, Hypex based amps, THX based amps - all getting great measurements and recommendations.

 

The whinging about measurements has become silly when you look at the overall picture

 

Respectfully please don't bring up DACs again 😃

 

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Even though I do not agree with Stereophile, sometimes (MQA Cough cough), I find their measurements at least understandable and reproducible. At least I trust them.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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1 hour ago, JoeWhip said:

Nice try plisskin. Speaking of bullshit, that is just what guessing the Yggy will sound like is from reading Amir’s measurements, bullshit.

 

I haven't guessed anything about the sound. I just don't see it as a high fidelity device. Anyone is free to try what ever they like.

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4 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

 

You're still talking about DACs and I said the site has moved well past and onto things that produce sound (speakers and headphones) and the things that drive those (amps).

 

You are right you shouldn't care about DACs ! DACs are solved by the competent Engineers - even by Schiit Audio now (they are sending DACs to Amir to measure and doing well). 

 

Not sure why you single out Chinese but you're not reading what I wrote before or conveniently ignoring - RME engineer is there and product measured superbly, Chord Qutest measured superbly. 

 

Benchmark DAC, superb.

 

Universal Audio's top end pro audio interface measured state of the art.

 

Please read my examples carefully and no need to bring Chinese into it? Even though many of them have solved the DAC performance thing too.

 

The funniest thing with the Schiit example is that the Engineers of Schiit products listened and changed their engineering and now send gear to Amir. But the consumers are still stuck in their mindset. 

 

i find that comical

 

But move beyond DACs. And forget about the engineers being on the forum if that is distracting you.

 

KEF R3, Genelec monitors, KRK monitors, Neumann monitors, Sennheiser headphones, Dan Clarke headphones, Purifi based amps, Hypex based amps, THX based amps - all getting great measurements and recommendations.

 

The whinging about measurements has become silly when you look at the overall picture

 

Respectfully please don't bring up DACs again 😃

 

I think we have a major miscommunication issue. I don’t want to taint our other good forum conversations that are productive 🙂

 

I just don’t understand the appeal to authority, but I have a feeling you aren’t trying to do that even though that’s what I see. This, I’ll stop now and say that I’ll continue to enjoy our discussions on the Merging Anubis. 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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21 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I just don’t understand the appeal to authority

 

If the authority is the engineers  making the gear I love and behind the music I love, I have no issues with appeal to authority in this particular / specific case - as long is it is verified ! I don't understand how that can be seen as unreasonable.

 

All I'm interested in, is "does it do what the manufacturer says it does". Nothing more, nothing less.

 

For all those examples I shared, the answer is yes. These products do what THEY claim they do (their own specs!).

 

Before Amir, I had Stereophile (JA's measurements) to go to. Now I have 2 sources to go to.

 

I don't equate measurements to SQ. There seems to be a strong (non-scientific) correlation from personal experience but I try to keep the 2 separate myself.

 

21 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I don’t want to taint our other good forum conversations that are productive 🙂

 

 

I am DREADING the day he gets his hands on one and says it doesn't do what Merging says it does😄

 

Btw I have measured Anubis and their specs do match up nicely with measurements. Easy to measure itself with it's pretty high res ADC (SINAD = 109dB LOL).

 

But yes, let's continue good Anubis convo's and park this debate till next time.

 

I'm hoping to make Munch show next year so maybe we can share a beer with Jussi and finally settle the technical debate once and for all and publish an AES journal LOL

 

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13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:


I should note that I do t mean a product still works for ten years. I mean new features are added for ten years. Plus, these companies will still fix the products decades after they are out of production. Audio Research has a million bucks worth of parts for old products. I like that and value not throwing away a product because it breaks. 
 

My Samsung Frame TV lasted 2 years. Samsung said sorry. 🙂

 

Going to try this again...

 

If your Samsung Frame TV was $2K and lasted for 2 years you are maintaining that you would purchase a $14K to $40K TV if it meant you could get service for it? Why didn't you spend on a 4 year extended warranty? To take this further you would get software updates for 10 years. What you aren't going to get is increased resolution or better HDR bit rates as time goes on. The only thing that guarantees that is a newer device.

 

Your preference is your preference but honestly I don't see the logic in the spend. It's poor ROI IMO.

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I went and looked at the DCS Debussy DAC circa 2011. What software updates have they been able to manage at $11,000 that does what my $460 refresh does: 512DSD, MQA, 32/768, Bluetooth LDAC and APT-X HD.

 

What I don't have information on is what the % problem rate is between the $11,000 and $499 DAC's of the time. You have me dead to rights on that one 🙄

 

Now the DCS will do 6 volt where the SMSL SU-9 maxes out at 4.7. But my amps only require 4 volt to hit WOT.

 

Interesting when I searched for the DCS Debussy:

 

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14 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Going to try this again...

 

If your Samsung Frame TV was $2K and lasted for 2 years you are maintaining that you would purchase a $14K to $40K TV if it meant you could get service for it? Why didn't you spend on a 4 year extended warranty? To take this further you would get software updates for 10 years. What you aren't going to get is increased resolution or better HDR bit rates as time goes on. The only thing that guarantees that is a newer device.

 

Your preference is your preference but honestly I don't see the logic in the spend. It's poor ROI IMO.

 

I have a 43" Pioneer Plasma that I bought in 2002 for 2500 bucks at the time. I still have it and it still works. What does that say...

 

It does weigh over 100 lbs, so moving it solo is a pain in the ass.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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A great take on ASR by Rob H in my opinion.

 

As I mentioned earlier, just ignore Amir's subjective comments and who cares what another pair of ears hears anyway :-)

 

And as I mentioned earlier, he has verified that Genelec, KEF R3, Neumann monitors, KRK monitors, Focal speakers, Benchmark interface, Focusrite interface, Motu interface, Chord Qutest DAC, RME interface, Benchmark amp, new Schiit Audio products etc, do what the manufacturers say they do . I didn't even mention JBL and Revel there in case someone screams conflict of interest even though measurements and measurements.

 

I agree the way Amir writes has/can put some people off but I find that easy to filter and just look at the data.

 

And Rob H does point out some of the flaws in measurements (which Amir acknowledges himself!)

 

And I agree with some of the points about some fanatics over there.

 

3rd party verification (done well) is always a good thing. Does it do what the manufacturer says it does.

 

If someone argues we should have less 3rd part verification in this world, well I'm lost.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

A great take on ASR by Rob H in my opinion.

 

As I mentioned earlier, just ignore Amir's subjective comments and who cares what another pair of ears hears anyway :-)

 

And as I mentioned earlier, he has verified that Genelec, KEF R3, Neumann monitors, KRK monitors, Focal speakers, Benchmark interface, Focusrite interface, Motu interface, Chord Qutest DAC, RME interface, Benchmark amp, new Schiit Audio products etc, do what the manufacturers say they do . I didn't even mention JBL and Revel there in case someone screams conflict of interest even though measurements and measurements.

 

I agree the way Amir writes has/can put some people off but I find that easy to filter and just look at the data.

 

And Rob H does point out some of the flaws in measurements (which Amir acknowledges himself!)

 

And I agree with some of the points about some fanatics over there.

 

3rd party verification (done well) is always a good thing. Does it do what the manufacturer says it does.

 

If someone argues we should have less 3rd part verification in this world, well I'm lost.

 

 

If you rely on meaningless measurements, your are lost. 

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18 minutes ago, Rexp said:

If you rely on meaningless measurements, your are lost. 

 

Meaningless? KEF, Genelec, Harman, Neumann engineers don't think they are meaningless.

 

Your opinion is your opinion but they are lost and you are found? 😄

 

And I don't "rely" on measurements - I consider them. I like to know that what the manufacturer says something does, it does.

 

If you like to be lied to, that's fine for you.

 

I'm lost if someone wants less 3rd party verification in this world.

 

The world should have just trusted VW and a regulator shouldn't have measured right ;-)

 

I am not drawing any similarity between the importance of audio hobby and climate change - the point of the example is sometimes you can't trust what a manufacturer tells you unless you have someone check 😉There have been examples of this in HiFi as Amir has found.

 

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