ASR Audio Science Review forum YouTube Channel

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, plissken said:

Some yes: Celestial Seasoning Chai Rooibos and their Peppermint suck compared to my local tea shop. Also the local shop has a mix call Bashford Bedtime Brew that is just killer.

 

I'll send you some to see what you think.

 

Here’s the one I have on order, based on recommendation from another member of the community. 
 

https://www.kuchatea.com/product/Golden Eyebrow Black Tea/2169

[JoeWhip]

Nice try plisskin. Speaking of bullshit, that is just what guessing the Yggy will sound like is from reading Amir’s measurements, bullshit.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

No I haven't forgot. I just see them as red herrings after having a $499 10 year old DAC that is still working just fine. That includes channel balance, DC offset, and ac ripple

 

What good are software updates for a stable device? My point being is why spend $14,000 to $40,000 now when I could spend $2K every three years and be driving a brand new DAC with all the improvements?

That’s where we differ big time, but I don’t ridicule you for not caring about build quality, responsible product sourcing, local jobs, etc...

[asdf1000]

5 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

BTW I also don't measure women (but I must admit here I'm a little bit interested in their size - I have a preference for slim ones), I ask them about their size if I want to buy them eg some lingerie, next I quickly forget about it though. Anyway never in my life I have measured a woman.. I do some other things with them though.

 

But it's probably only me. I guess ASR readers do the opposite...

 

Edit: I'm neither a sexist nor I objectify women, some exaggeration in the above examples was intended.

 

The opening post of this thread is addressed to Teresa, a woman....

 

Even with your "edit" added, do you think this edit would make your mother, sister etc comfortable, with what you wrote before your edit?

 

A bit of class would be nice. Especially when the opening post is addressed to a woman !!

 

 

[sphinxsix]

4 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Well if one of the ingredients is bull shit I ain't eating it.

 

It's a question of subjective, individual taste, most dogs wouldn't agree.

 

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, JoeWhip said:

He makes his recommendation solely using his numbers, not listening.

 

His recommendation are based on being a well engineered product (or not).

 

One can then use that information to shortlist well engineered products, to go listen / demo ....

 

I don't understand why one needs to read/hear what someone else things about sound quality when the HiFi Gods have blessed all of us that are in this hobby, with our own 2 ears.

[asdf1000]

51 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

Sorry plisskin the Yggy sounds fantastic. Not a high fidelity device my ass. This condescending know it all attitude is why I left ASR.

 

Funnily enough, after you left ASR, Schiit Audio and Amir seem to have kissed and made up and they are now sending gear to him to measure and they measure well now and he recommends these products...

 

I really would like to see @Superdad and Amir kiss and make up one day. Nobody likes seeing their parents fighting all the time 😄 . I am hopeful the day will come.

 

I never saw that day coming with Schiit Audio and yet, the beef is squashed.

 

[sphinxsix]

26 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Here’s the one I have on order, based on recommendation from another member of the community. 
 

https://www.kuchatea.com/product/Golden Eyebrow Black Tea/2169

 

The review sounds a little like a review of a gunpowder tea. It also looks quite similar, apart from the fact that it is not ball shaped. It looks green not black.

 

23 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

The opening post of this thread is addressed to Teresa, a woman....

 

Even with your "edit" added, do you think this edit would make your mother, sister etc comfortable, with what you wrote before your edit?

 

A bit of class would be nice. Especially when the opening post is addressed to a woman !!

 

Thank you for your lesson. I believe I have a mutually positive and friendly relationship with @Teresa

Obviously (at least seemingly) my remark was more than 50% joke.

I don't have a sister.

As for my mother, I'm afraid she wouldn't be comfortable with about 60% of my everyday thoughts and it's ok that way.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

His recommendation are based on being a well engineered product (or not).

Not at all. We had this discussion previously in another thread. Ranking items based on measurements is a disservice and has nothing to do with being well engineered when the "top" 70% of DACs don't have any issues that humans can hear. 

 

Is it a good design decision to spend more money on engineering, thus making the product cost more, if all that it gets you is a lower nose floor that is even further below the level of human hearing? To the objective crowd, such a device deserves to be ranked better than another product, even though to humans there can be no difference when listening (according to them).

 

It's all about pleasing themselves, not educating consumers.

[asdf1000]

8 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Not at all. We had this discussion previously in another thread. Ranking items based on measurements is a disservice and has nothing to do with being well engineered when the "top" 70% of DACs don't have any issues that humans can hear. 

 

 

Noted but I still don't understand this over fascination on his SINAD chart.

 

He provides a heck of a lot more measurements below his SINAD chart and is not shy to point out measurement issues, even if the SINAD is over 110dB...

 

I previously shared an example of the DAC with high output impedance... maybe a way to "cheat" to achieve their high SINAD? He called them out...

 

8 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Is it a good design decision to spend more money on engineering, thus making the product cost more, if all that it gets you is a lower nose floor that is even further below the level of human hearing?

 

This seems to be focusing just on DACs? He has moved well past measuring just DACs , onto amps and the things that make sound - speakers and headphones.

 

The latter are also the things with highest distortion measurements...

 

If he was just measuring DACs I would understand some of these comments.

 

But Schiit Audio seemed to listen? They are sending DACs to him now and measuring well ?

 

So an engineering improvement happened right?

[JoeWhip]

6 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

His recommendation are based on being a well engineered product (or not).

 

One can then use that information to shortlist well engineered products, to go listen / demo ....

 

I don't understand why one needs to read/hear what someone else things about sound quality when the HiFi Gods have blessed all of us that are in this hobby, with our own 2 ears.

 I buy based on what the product sounds like when I audition it and if the product has a history of reliability, not what reviewer says, although I do have some friends whose hearing and tastes I trust. To imply that a product like the Yggy is not well engineered based upon an incomplete set of measurements is laughable. I have had one since 2015 and it has been completely reliable and has given me countless hours of enjoyment. To me, that is a well engineered product.  I have had other better measuring DACs in here that didn’t do that. I have been in this hobby since the mid 1980’s and there are few designers I would trust without listening at this point, Richard Vandersteen, Steve McCormack and Mike Moffat. I am sure my early 90’s Theta DAC wouldn’t measure perfectly but it still works and is put into service when the Yggy goes back in for an update that I can’t do myself. Mike has been clear that there will be measurement issues with multibit DACs. So what if they sound this good. I have recordings where I have been in the control room when they were made and the Yggy reproduces them wonderfully.

[patagent]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Not at all. We had this discussion previously in another thread. Ranking items based on measurements is a disservice and has nothing to do with being well engineered when the "top" 70% of DACs don't have any issues that humans can hear. 

 

Is it a good design decision to spend more money on engineering, thus making the product cost more, if all that it gets you is a lower nose floor that is even further below the level of human hearing? To the objective crowd, such a device deserves to be ranked better than another product, even though to humans there can be no difference when listening (according to them).

 

It's all about pleasing themselves, not educating consumers.

 

From what I've seen, Amir has pointed out the limits of human hearing in terms of noise floor.  He also points out when noise/distortion of the measured product are beyond audibility limits.  I do agree that there doesn't seem to be much value in measuring the 300th Chinese DAC that measures flawlessly at this point as it is solved problem  But then again, it seems like a lot of companies upped their engineering game as a result of these published measurements.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Noted but I still don't understand this over fascination on his SINAD chart.

 

He provides a heck of a lot more measurements below his SINAD chart and is not shy to point out measurement issues, even if the SINAD is over 110dB...

 

I previously shared an example of the DAC with high output impedance... maybe a way to "cheat" to achieve their high SINAD? He called them out...

 

 

This seems to be focusing just on DACs? He has moved well past measuring just DACs , onto amps and the things that make sound - speakers and headphones.

 

The latter are also the things with highest distortion measurements...

 

If he was just measuring DACs I would understand some of these comments.

 

But Schiit Audio seemed to listen? They are sending DACs to him now and measuring well ?

 

So an engineering improvement happened right?

Doesn’t matter the product. People who like engineering beyond all else will rank products based on measurements that people can’t hear. Distortion of 0.00000000000001% is technically lower than 0.00000000000002% but nobody in their right mind should care. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, patagent said:

it seems like a lot of companies upped their engineering game as a result of these published measurements.

Let’s stick to facts. How many is “a lot” and which companies?

[sphinxsix]

Just came to my mind.. Doesn't relying solely on 'numbers' have to do something with the male inches problem.? Both are after all in a way connected with a lack of trust. In the former case in one's ears. Just thinking..🙄

[asdf1000]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Distortion of 0.00000000000001% is technically lower than 0.00000000000002% but nobody in their right mind should care. 

 

The product type does matter. Those numbers don't apply to amps, speakers, headphones.

 

Funnily enough, people involved in engineering products that make sound are active on his forum.

 

KEF Engineering boss is there and happy with Amir's KEF R3 measurements.

 

Genelec Senior Engineer is there and very happy with Amir's Genelecs measurements.

 

Dan Clarke is there and happy with Amir's headphone measurement of their products.

 

Dr. Sean Olive and Dr. Floyd Toole are there and happy with his ideas of what are good speaker and headphone measurements to aim for.

 

Rob Watts would be happy with Amir's measurement of his Qutest DAC...

 

All the above are engineers involved in state of the art products that make sound.

 

Schiit Audio are now sending Amir gear.

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, asdf1000 said:

 

The product type does matter. Those numbers don't apply to amps, speakers, headphones.

 

Funnily enough, people involved in engineering products that make sound are active on his forum.

 

KEF Engineering boss is there and happy with Amir's KEF R3 measurements.

 

Genelec Senior Engineer is there and very happy with Amir's Genelecs measurements.

 

Dan Clarke is there and happy with Amir's headphone measurement of their products.

 

Dr. Sean Olive and Dr. Floyd Toole are there and happy with his ideas of what are good speaker and headphone measurements to aim for.

 

Rob Watts would be happy with Amir's measurement of his Qutest DAC...

 

All the above are engineers involved in state of the art products that make sound.

 

Schiit Audio are now sending Amir gear.

 

 

 

Amps don’t have distortion? 

[jiminlogansquare]

6 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Anyway I will never trust a guy with a female avatar

I guess based on my avatar* you can just ignore my posts in Album of the Evening, then @sphinxsix!
 

* My avatar is a photo I took of the Capitoline She-Wolf statue in Rome. Maybe you only meant female human avatars?  =^)

[asdf1000]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Amps don’t have distortion? 

 

Distortion at these levels?  

 

"Distortion of 0.00000000000001% is technically lower than 0.00000000000002% but nobody in their right mind should care. "

 

 

I wrote "Those numbers don't apply to amps, speakers, headphones."

 

 

[sphinxsix]

1 minute ago, asdf1000 said:

 

 

 

I wrote "Those numbers don't apply to amps, speakers, headphones."

 

 

You mean just those two numbers.? 😉

[asdf1000]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Amps don’t have distortion? 

 

And when I write the below, at what point does the whinging and complaining about Amir seem a bit silly?

 

We are well passed DACs now and into the area of things producing sound.

 

 

"Funnily enough, people involved in engineering products that make sound are active on his forum.

 

KEF Engineering boss is there and happy with Amir's KEF R3 measurements.

 

Genelec Senior Engineer is there and very happy with Amir's Genelecs measurements.

 

Dan Clarke is there and happy with Amir's headphone measurement of their products.

 

Dr. Sean Olive and Dr. Floyd Toole are there and happy with his ideas of what are good speaker and headphone measurements to aim for.

 

Rob Watts would be happy with Amir's measurement of his Qutest DAC...

 

All the above are engineers involved in state of the art products that make sound.

 

Schiit Audio are now sending Amir gear."

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Distortion at these levels?  

 

"Distortion of 0.00000000000001% is technically lower than 0.00000000000002% but nobody in their right mind should care. "

 

 

I wrote "Those numbers don't apply to amps, speakers, headphones."

 

 

I used numbers like that as an illustration. The number of decimals places doesn’t matter to those who value numbers above all else and to those who aren’t interested in educating consumers. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, asdf1000 said:

 

And when I write the below, at what point does the whinging and complaining about Amir seem a bit silly?

 

We are well passed DACs now and into the area of things producing sound.

 

 

 

"Funnily enough, people involved in engineering products that make sound are active on his forum.

 

KEF Engineering boss is there and happy with Amir's KEF R3 measurements.

 

Genelec Senior Engineer is there and very happy with Amir's Genelecs measurements.

 

Dan Clarke is there and happy with Amir's headphone measurement of their products.

 

Dr. Sean Olive and Dr. Floyd Toole are there and happy with his ideas of what are good speaker and headphone measurements to aim for.

 

Rob Watts would be happy with Amir's measurement of his Qutest DAC...

 

All the above are engineers involved in state of the art products that make sound.

 

Schiit Audio are now sending Amir gear."

 

 

 

I don’t follow. 

[botrytis]

@The Computer Audiophileif you like black tea - I can recommend....

 

Monks Blend Tea | Monks Breakfast Blend Black Tea – Art of Tea 

[botrytis]

Maybe Amir had a hissy fit and it is cheaper to send him stuff to test then to hear him whine....