DIY Project High Performance Audio PC with high quality wiring

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, wolft said:

this is not new

What?

[wolft]

>>With the right settings in HQPlayer, DSD 1024 plays stutter-free on the fis Audio PC. As far as I know, this was only possible with CUDA (i.e. in combination with a powerful graphics card).

 

the information that you can play DSD1024 in HQPlayer with the right settings without cuda 

[The Computer Audiophile]

58 minutes ago, wolft said:

>>With the right settings in HQPlayer, DSD 1024 plays stutter-free on the fis Audio PC. As far as I know, this was only possible with CUDA (i.e. in combination with a powerful graphics card).

 

the information that you can play DSD1024 in HQPlayer with the right settings without cuda 

OK. There’s no rule here on AS than prohibits posting of information that is known to someone somewhere :~)

[Exocer]

@StreamFidelity Kudos to you for such an awesome build. I have been back and forth over PSU decisions for over a month now. My system is available in my sig. The main components are: i7 8700T, 8GB Apacer, Asus Strix Z390-I, Elfidelity USB add-on card with Gentooplayer OS. I do not upsample as I like the sound of my Yggdrasil A2 with standard CD quality streaming via Tidal. Would greatly appreciate your input.

 

I notice that you regard the Keces P8 highly and it appears to be the most convenient,available high quality options for me. Have you had an opportunity to compare it to any other highly regarded PSUs with similar continuous output at 19v?

 

Also,

I see that you have experience with both the HDPlex 400W DC-ATX and 800W DC-ATX converter. Of the two options below, which would you say was superior sounding?

 

1. 2x Keces P8 19v feeding HDPlex 800W DC-ATX Converter

2. 1x Keces P8 19v feeding HDPlex 400w DC-ATX Converter + Keces P8 12v feeding EPS directly

 

Thinking to start with 1 Keces P8 19v feeding a 400W DC-ATX converter and consider working towards either of the above options.

 

Thanks,

-Rob

[StreamFidelity]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:56 PM, wolft said:

the information that you can play DSD1024 in HQPlayer with the right settings without cuda 

 

I like to learn. 👍Where did you get the information and which CPU and settings?

[StreamFidelity]

13 hours ago, Exocer said:

I notice that you regard the Keces P8 highly and it appears to be the most convenient,available high quality options for me.

 

Thank you for your feedback.

 

Keces P8 is a compromise. After my HDPLEX 200W LPS dissolved in smoke, I was primarily interested in operational safety. Keces P8 has:
  Over Voltage Protection (OVP).
  Over Current Protection (OCP).
  Under Voltage Protection (UVP).
  Over Temperature Protection (OTP).

 

Keces also shows power consumption and is easily available in Europe.

 

There may be power supplies that are more audiophile. I'm sure I'll try a few more things. At the moment, however, I'm technically and sonically very satisfied with the Keces P8.

 

13 hours ago, Exocer said:

2. 1x Keces P8 19v feeding HDPlex 400w DC-ATX Converter + Keces P8 12v feeding EPS directly

 

The HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter is great. But the direct power supply to the CPU convinced me more. However, it is a heavy load for the Keces P8 (single version 12V / 8A), although only 2.5A - 3.5A are consumed on average. The temperature development is high and the LPS must be in a well-ventilated area.

[dminches]

3 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

However, it is a heavy load for the Keces P8 (single version 12V / 8A), although only 2.5A - 3.5A are consumed on average. The temperature development is high and the LPS must be in a well-ventilated area.

 

Are there many other linear power supplies that are rated for more then 8A?  I though the Sean Jacobs builds, like the DC4, are limited to 5A.  I didn’t think that the Keces P8 was underpowered at either 19V or 12V.

 

 

[elan120]

15 minutes ago, dminches said:

I didn’t think that the Keces P8 was underpowered at either 19V or 12V.

The peak demand during boot up sequence for either i9-9900K or KS is much higher than average consumption, based on observation for KS, it can go up to around 120W or slightly higher, so for P8 at 19/20V-8A, it works, but the 12V-8A model likely be insufficient.  Unfortunately, the option for a 12V linear power supply that is rated higher than 8A is quite limited, and a 12V power supply that works with i9-9900K or KS will likely need to handle peak current demand at 12A or higher, which is challenging to source one.

[ASRMichael]

38 minutes ago, dminches said:

 

Are there many other linear power supplies that are rated for more then 8A?  I though the Sean Jacobs builds, like the DC4, are limited to 5A.  I didn’t think that the Keces P8 was underpowered at either 19V or 12V.

 

 

Sean does a custom DC3 10a! I have one on order for my new i9 build. Also has 3 additional rails for my router/modem/sonore. Effectively everything in my chain will soon have SJ DC3 power. 

[elan120]

4 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Sean does a custom DC3 10a! I have one on order for my new i9 build.

Looking forward to your experience on this power supply.  Is your i9 K or KS?

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Looking forward to your experience on this power supply.  Is your i9 K or KS?

Just K! Will just set to 3.6ghz base clock. Will be running Stylus, no HQPlayer. Knowing Sean his builds are slightly over spec’d. So micro bursts will probably handle 11-12amp. Not that I fully understand this, just for discussions. 

[elan120]

6 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Just K! Will just set to 3.6ghz base clock. Will be running Stylus, no HQPlayer. Knowing Sean his builds are slightly over spec’d. So micro bursts will probably handle 11-12amp. Not that I fully understand this, just for discussions. 

If my speculation is correct, this power supply should be able to handle burst peak current to 14A range, which will handle your application very comfortably.  I am hoping the same will work for my KS, and I should find out hopefully in the next couple weeks.

[Nenon]

Sean's latest "10A" LPS is capable of delivering 30-45A. The limiting factor is the heat dissipation of the case. It's not listed on his web site, because he is still perfecting it. It's based on his DC4 design and it's a cost no object design with dual regulation and all the custom stuff he has developed for the DC4. 

I have been a beta tester for a while. Waiting to receive his latest prototype in a HDPlex H5 chassis to see how well the heatsinks on the H5 would do in this application. It may need to go in a case with better heatsinks at the end. The Asus SAGE / dual Xeon box I built is perfect for testing those types of power supplies - highly resolving and drawing a lot of current if unleashed. 

 

Sean also offers a DC3 based 10A LPS, which he does not advertise actively, but I know quite a few people are using it. It can also easily handle peaks over 10A.  

 

Paul Hynes Design SR7 is a cheaper alternative that is rated at: 12vdc @ 12A continuous, 40A transient. By cheaper, I don't mean worse. I have not had a chance to test this standard SR7 yet, but the feedback has been good.

 

Keces P8 is a lower end LPS. I have built some computers with it. It does a good job for its price. But there is a significant difference between the P8 and Sean's DC4 in both - price and performance. 

 

Those are the 3 high current power supplies currently on the market that I would consider. They represent 3 different price points. It really depends on your budget and your system. They are all good options. A couple other well-respected companies are also working on new high current products. It's good to have variety!

[dminches]

Where do the HDPlex 400W and 300w (I guess this is new) fall within the units you mentioned?

 

[Nenon]

3 minutes ago, dminches said:

Where do the HDPlex 400W and 300w (I guess this is new) fall within the units you mentioned?

 

Somewhere with the Keces P8 IMO. Perhaps someone has done a direct comparison and can tell more. I've never had them at the same time. 

[dminches]

4 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Somewhere with the Keces P8 IMO. Perhaps someone has done a direct comparison and can tell more. I've never had them at the same time. 

 

This isn't a direct comparison but I had a huge step up in sound quality going from:

 

a single HDPlex 400W ATX powering the mobo and CPU to

the HDPlex 400W direct to the CPU and a Keces P8 powering an HDPlex 800W DC-ATX.

 

[Exocer]

3 hours ago, elan120 said:

The peak demand during boot up sequence for either i9-9900K or KS is much higher than average consumption, based on observation for KS, it can go up to around 120W or slightly higher, so for P8 at 19/20V-8A, it works, but the 12V-8A model likely be insufficient.  Unfortunately, the option for a 12V linear power supply that is rated higher than 8A is quite limited, and a 12V power supply that works with i9-9900K or KS will likely need to handle peak current demand at 12A or higher, which is challenging to source one.

Based on this logic, dual Keces P8 19v feeding HDPlex 800W DC-ATX adapter seems like it would provide more headroom. CPU EPS coming from output of the DC-ATX. Does that additional headroom make it to the CPU if going through the converter while using only a single EPS input at the motherboard?

 

 

[Exocer]

2 hours ago, Nenon said:

I have been a beta tester for a while. Waiting to receive his latest prototype in a HDPlex H5 chassis to see how well the heatsinks on the H5 would do in this application. It may need to go in a case with better heatsinks at the end. The Asus SAGE / dual Xeon box I built is perfect for testing those types of power supplies - highly resolving and drawing a lot of current if unleashed. 

It would be awesome if this is the case he goes with. It is a perfect match for my server.

[elan120]

10 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Based on this logic, dual Keces P8 19v feeding HDPlex 800W DC-ATX adapter seems like it would provide more headroom. CPU EPS coming from output of the DC-ATX. Does that additional headroom make it to the CPU if going through the converter while using only a single EPS input at the motherboard?

 

 

Yes, it would, but will need to check both HDPlex 800W DC-ATX outputs carefully due to this concern.  OTOH, single P8 at 20V feeding HDPlex 800W DC-ATX powering i9-9900KS EPS work without issue.  It is my interim solution until I finish building my 12V power supply to power the EPS directly.

[Exocer]

2 hours ago, elan120 said:

Yes, it would, but will need to check both HDPlex 800W DC-ATX outputs carefully due to this concern.  OTOH, single P8 at 20V feeding HDPlex 800W DC-ATX powering i9-9900KS EPS work without issue.  It is my interim solution until I finish building my 12V power supply to power the EPS directly.

 

Understood. 

 

Do you still feel the need to power PCI-E expansion cards (JCAT Femto NET/USB) with dedicated LPSU if the PC is already powered by an lpsu at the Keces/HDPlex level or better?

[Nenon]

25 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Do you still feel the need to power PCI-E expansion cards (JCAT Femto NET/USB) with dedicated LPSU if the PC is already powered by an lpsu at the Keces/HDPlex level or better?

 

Let me answer this, because it's an easy question. ABSOLUTELY!

[elan120]

1 hour ago, Exocer said:

Do you still feel the need to power PCI-E expansion cards (JCAT Femto NET/USB) with dedicated LPSU if the PC is already powered by an lpsu at the Keces/HDPlex level or better?

I feel the same as Nenon, and this is pretty much an universal consensus that both of these cards scales well with the quality of power supply.  Bypassing Mobo power with direct linear power supplies likely work for all add-on cards or devices, since even the best power supply to ATX connection will still require succeeding power distribution from Mobo, and JCAT Femto cards are no different.

[Marcin_gps]

External linear PSU for the JCAT cards is a must as then the cards do not rely on PCIe power at all. This is one of the key benefits of the cards. 

 

Regards,
Marcin

[StreamFidelity]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:50 PM, elan120 said:

The peak demand during boot up sequence for either i9-9900K or KS is much higher than average consumption

 

I have now watched the audio PC start up. A Keces P8 supplies the HDPLEX 400W DC / ATX converter with 19V. The other Keces P8 supplies the CPU directly with 12V (8 pin Molex).

 

The peak values when starting up are as follows:
19V /1.7A and 12V/4.2A. The second is high, but no problem. 👍

[elan120]

57 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

19V /1.7A and 12V/4.2A. The second is high, but no problem.

That is a good data point, thank you.

 

Just curious, what is the current consumption when running EC modulator from 44.1K to DSD256 and how hot is the power supply?