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DIY Project High Performance Audio PC with high quality wiring


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I spent the entire late afternoon and evening reading this thread and the highly informative one started by Neon.    Kudos to you all.

 

My lonely CAPS Lagoon was sadly feeling like the 'hillbilly stepchild' in this field of very heavy hitters.

 

One thing I have not read in any of the threads is costings.    I'm fairly certain us budding DIY PC builders would like to see some prices attached to the various components you have been discussing.  

 

Cases

Power supplies

USB cards

Ram

i9 Motherboards

CPU's,

Heat sinks.

 

They all come at a price along the way.   Please include the RRP of these items where possible. 

 

Whether it be in US $ or the Euro.    I'm presuming these PC's are pushing $10,000 US$.   I'm just trying to get my head around what is possible for the $$$ as a DIY build.

 

Thanks again for all your brilliant posting and ideas.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

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On 6/18/2020 at 1:57 PM, evalon said:

 

Ah! ... Thanks for clarifying, Gabriel ... Looks like a very interesting piece of equipment also at a very reasonable price I would guess. Unfortunately (for my uses) it appears to not be available as a standalone USB-to-I2S unit. Well, that's as it may be - but thanks again for your feedback ... 

 

Cheers,

 

Jesper 

 

That would be a Digital to Digital Convertor. Check out the Denafrips GAIA.

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-gaia

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20 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

I spent the entire late afternoon and evening reading this thread and the highly informative one started by Neon.    Kudos to you all.

 

The reading should be captivating. Many thanks 👍

 

20 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

They all come at a price along the way.   Please include the RRP of these items where possible. 

 

Nenon has published his prices here:

 

You can find our prices under fis Audio PC products. It starts at around € 3,500,00. Every accessory is transparently linked.

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16 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

Nenon has published his prices here:

Just to clarify - these are not my prices. I have no intentions to build computers for other people anymore. I put this post together to give a general idea about the price of a DIY server... done as DIY, not by me. 

Industry disclosure:
https://chicagohifi.com

Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs

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@BCRich: Thanks for the tip on the Denafrips Gaia ... I actually did check it out when StreamFidelity mentioned the Denafrips Terminator but it doesn't do 1.536 MHz sampling frequency. As far as I can see this is only available in the Terminator. 

 

Also, I am mainly looking for a USB-to-I2S card (like the Amanero or JLSounds) which would allow me to build the DAC around the card ...

 

Ah, I should have learned to program in due time ... o.O

 

Cheers,

 

Jesper 

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Hi again, 

 

Now I know that this is a bit off-topic relative to the thread's main subject ... but ... I reckon that people reading this thread would also be interested in DSD playback since this (at least with HQPlayer's more advanced filters) requires quite a powerful computer. 

 

Anyway, one of you knows if it is possible to stream DSD in a simple way from youtube, the national radio & television service, etc. .. ? While I greatly enjoy superb sound quality from my audio system I also really prefer it to be as straightforward & "simple" to use as possible. Thus very few setups, opening of software programs, etc. When I listen to music the audio system should just "work" ... 

 

This also includes very easy playback of these aforementioned sound & video streams so if there is a way to do this then I'd much appreciate hearing about it.

 

It is also my impression from reading on and off on these webpages that DSD is generally preferred over PCM playback ... Is this also an opinion shared here?

 

Cheers,

 

Jesper 

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3 minutes ago, evalon said:

It is also my impression from reading on and off on these webpages that DSD is generally preferred over PCM playback ... Is this also an opinion shared here?

 

 

I think this is very dependent on the DAC you are using.  With Chord DACs, I (and most folks I know) prefer PCM to DSD.  With other DACs, folks seem to have a strong preference for DSD.  For folks that want to really take advantage of the more advanced filters in HQP, they tend focus on DACs that do better with DSD content.

 

Generally speaking, I try to acquire music in the format that is closest to what it was recorded/mastered in.  That is virtually always PCM, but there are some audiophile labels that record straight to DSD (Blue Coast Records, etc).

 

 

ATT Fiber -> EdgeRouter X SFP -> Taiko Audio Extreme -> Vinnie Rossi L2i-SE w/ Level 2 DAC -> Voxativ 9.87 speakers w/ 4D drivers

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5 hours ago, ray-dude said:

I think this is very dependent on the DAC you are using.

 

I agree with that. DSD sounds much better on my Denafrips Terminator than PCM. There are similar experiences with DACs from T + A.

For example, you can use the skills of HQPlayer to convert everything to DSD. Even if the raw data comes from PCM.

 

There are manufacturers who do this themselves in the DAC. To my knowledge, these are, for example, PS Audio or EMM Labs.

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Hi both, 

 

& thanks for your feedbacks. Things to ponder I think ... As it is I basically believe most in DSD converters because the basic electronics can be exceptionally simple and still (probably) be better than - 110 dB THD (100 dB THD confirmed for a very simple circuitry). The drawbacks are the relatively high clock rates needed (22.6 MHz for DSD512) which inevitably will mean higher phase noise on the clock (in theory 6 dB extra per octave). Also, there's quite a lot of high frequency noise inherent in the DSD conversion principle itself meaning that the filtering electronics IMHO needs be quite high quality. Still, it can be very simple (low cost, optimized electronics etc.), and due to the high sample rate I assume (my intuition here, not factual knowledge) that it may track the music signal very well. 

 

PCM on the other hand today most often is accomplished with a delta-sigma modulator which is then processed to a PCM-like-signal. The exceptions - to my knowledge - being e.g. Esstech DACs and the new AK4499 DAC which are switched resistor networks akin to an R2R DAC (+ their internal filters) - Denafrips Terminator. However, e.g. the ES9038 requires an oscillator operating (from memory) somewhere between 80-100 MHz again compromising phase noise of this DAC's timing reference. The AK4499 seems to require either a 12.2 or 24.5 MHz oscillator. However, both output huge amounts of current likely posing quite a challenge on their power supplies. 

 

Anyway, the above digression is mainly to say that if I somehow could stream audio as DSD - but with a very simple user interface so that I can basically open e.g. youtube and instantly play back from within youtube when I wish to do so - then this likely would be my preferred way of playback. But I just don't know if it is possible ... 

 

So ... time to ponder ... 

 

Have a good day both of you 😉

 

Cheers - Jesper

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Hi again ... this is an edit - just to correct an error in my previous post: From looking at the block diagram of the AK4499 it appears to be a combination of a sigma-delta modulator + switched resistor output so conceptually not an R2R DAC. And apparently the same applies to the ES9038 from Esstech.

 

Cheers Jesper

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  • 3 weeks later...

@Gavin1977 

I prefer ASDM7EC and this modulator only goes up to DSD 256.

 

sinc-S runs very well

spacer.png

 

sinc-M runs very well

spacer.png

 

sinc-L too many dropouts

spacer.png

 

CUDA doesn't matter to me because I don't want a fan in the AudioPC. 😉

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  • 3 weeks later...
23 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

Just please read it again with opened mind... Is it possible?????

Ad.1. That same parameter isn't possible in the Frequency range 10 MHz - 54 MHz

     -172dBc/0.098PS RMS Jitter @100HZ ~ 1MHz

Ad.2. -172dBc is ok but maybe at 1 MHz... and not 100Hz. That range is an Ultra-Ultra-Ultra Clock's range with 40.000 USD price.

Ad.3. i believe that the SQ is better after the tuning, it isn't a question. 

 

     For example  10 MHz clock with -147dB@10Hz is a very very good OCXO and the price is about 1500 USD. (This clock's phase noise is -168dB@10kHz)

 

 : 

 

"1. Frequency
- 10.000000 MHz
- 11.289600 MHz
- 12.000000 MHz
- 12.288000 MHz

- 12.500000 MHz
- 14.318000 MHz
- 16.934400 MHz
- 18.432000 MHz
- 20.000000 MHz
- 22.579200 MHz
- 24.576000 MHz
- 25.000000 MHz
- 27.000000 MHz
- 30.000000 MHz
- 40.000000 MHz
- 45.158400 MHz
- 48.000000 MHz
- 49.152000 MHz
- 54.000000 MHz

2. Jitter Noise : -172dBc/0.098PS RMS Jitter @100HZ ~ 1MHz

......

Please select the frequency when ordering.

For example : "45.158400 MHz" 

Manufacturer of Core Audio equipments

                www.coreaudio.eu

Source: Core Audio DAIDO ULTIMATE + CA KARUNA ULTIMATE USB/SPDIF Bridge + CA DENPO ULTIMATE DAC

Amplifiers: MBL 6010D preamp + MBL 9008A monoblocks

Loudspeakers: MBL 101emkII, YG Hailey 2.2

Cables: TARALABS USB, Muse Digit, Muse IC + ZERO Evolution, Muse SP

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26 minutes ago, wittao said:

Ad.3. i believe that the SQ is better after the tuning, it isn't a question. 

 

For me that is the most important thing.

 

The manufacturer has published a diagram on eBay. I have nothing to do with the manufacturer. If you have any doubts, write to him, not to me. 😉

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

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It was only just my first impression read your datas :)

 

In SQ as we tried it and tested it the most important thing is the nearest phase noise (1Hz, 10Hz and 100Hz) and of course the RMS Jitter in the femto second range (or the ultra femto range under 100 fs).

 

But again: if the sound you like that is the most important thing!

 

Manufacturer of Core Audio equipments

                www.coreaudio.eu

Source: Core Audio DAIDO ULTIMATE + CA KARUNA ULTIMATE USB/SPDIF Bridge + CA DENPO ULTIMATE DAC

Amplifiers: MBL 6010D preamp + MBL 9008A monoblocks

Loudspeakers: MBL 101emkII, YG Hailey 2.2

Cables: TARALABS USB, Muse Digit, Muse IC + ZERO Evolution, Muse SP

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1 hour ago, wittao said:

Just please read it again with opened mind... Is it possible?????

Ad.1. That same parameter isn't possible in the Frequency range 10 MHz - 54 MHz

     -172dBc/0.098PS RMS Jitter @100HZ ~ 1MHz

Ad.2. -172dBc is ok but maybe at 1 MHz... and not 100Hz. That range is an Ultra-Ultra-Ultra Clock's range with 40.000 USD price.

Ad.3. i believe that the SQ is better after the tuning, it isn't a question. 

 

     For example  10 MHz clock with -147dB@10Hz is a very very good OCXO and the price is about 1500 USD. (This clock's phase noise is -168dB@10kHz)

 

 : 

 

"1. Frequency
- 10.000000 MHz
- 11.289600 MHz
- 12.000000 MHz
- 12.288000 MHz

- 12.500000 MHz
- 14.318000 MHz
- 16.934400 MHz
- 18.432000 MHz
- 20.000000 MHz
- 22.579200 MHz
- 24.576000 MHz
- 25.000000 MHz
- 27.000000 MHz
- 30.000000 MHz
- 40.000000 MHz
- 45.158400 MHz
- 48.000000 MHz
- 49.152000 MHz
- 54.000000 MHz

2. Jitter Noise : -172dBc/0.098PS RMS Jitter @100HZ ~ 1MHz

......

Please select the frequency when ordering.

For example : "45.158400 MHz" 

I fully agree with wittao. Reading the ebay ad, one gets the feeling that the bride is a bit too beautiful, to say the least, whatever the beautiful diagrams published by the manufacturer to illustrate his point.

Music server (single PC): CORE AUDIO DAIDO Reference i9 Series (ASUS Maximus XI Gene mATX motherboard, i9 9900T cpu, CORE AUDIO BiClock MasterClock :24MHz & 25MHz) CORE AUDIO Linear ATX PSU / 3 transformers (300 Va) in FC-10 (modified) case, CORE AUDIO ULN PSU for MasterClock , G-Skill 2x8GB DDR4 RAM / APACER 2x4GB ECC RAM (used as non ECC), SAMSUNG 870 Evo Plus M2 nvme SSD) , JCAT FEMTO USB Card , JCAT Reference USB Cable, Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 (for USB card),  2 external Toshiba 3To 2.5" HDDs (music files),

Software: Windows Server 2019 Standard (Total Commander as shell), JPLAY 7 Femto, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 8.5, BubbleUPnP, MinotityClean

Audio equipment: Singxer SU-1 (heavily modified), PS Audio Direcstream DAC, PS Audio BHK Signature Preamp , ROGUE AUDIO M-180 (2 Monoblocs) Amp, 

JMR Offrande Supreme v2 loudspeakers, Digital cables: Wireworld silver Starlight 7 HDMI, Paul Pang AES,  IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, miscellaneous DIY ... 

Power cables: Triode Wire Labs, miscellaneous DIY ... 

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On 8/9/2020 at 10:03 AM, StreamFidelity said:

Inspired by @Nenons experience with a new clock in the Buffalo switch and fiber with Fintech transceivers, I would like to report on my experiences. 

 

The background: In Germany there is an audiophile engineer named Dr. Gert Volk. He is known in the community for his modifications of Linn streamers. Lately he's been doing a lot with Sellarz clocks (-172dBc ultra low phase noise). Among other things, he modified the 10GTek media converter. This then becomes the 11GTek. 😀

 

38847744iv.jpeg

 

38847742pz.jpeg

 

I tested this constellation:

 

38965320kk.png

 

The result is breathtaking. In addition to perfect galvanic isolation, there is a very high quality reclocking. The space opens up, all sharpness disappears. Quobuz sounds 99% as good to me as it does directly from the NAS.

@StreamFidelity great post this is an interesting route to look at.

 

I had actually considered spinning up a PCB for a to UTP to fiber converter for isolation but hadn't realized how many are available and how cheap they are to buy :).

 

Personally I have been focused on improving timing and SI of network transmission by working inside the devices that are transmitting and receiving the stream (music server / audio server). Putting additional devices in to the network path such as switches and hubs introduces a multitude of additional variables that then need work. I guess you cannot get much simpler than an back to back patch cable but "simple" isolation could be helpful.

 

I haven't located a datasheet for the device used so far, but I hope it might be a straight forward media translation device acting only as a layer 1 translation, with no processing carried out on the network data stream (ARP, IP routing etc etc). 

 

These devices are on the list of stuff to look at, perhaps with one of my own clocks :)

 

 

      

OAudio Ltd.

OAudio Supreme - music server.

OAudio RealStream - digital audio components.

 

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1 hour ago, wittao said:

Just please read it again with opened mind... Is it possible?????

Ad.1. That same parameter isn't possible in the Frequency range 10 MHz - 54 MHz

     -172dBc/0.098PS RMS Jitter @100HZ ~ 1MHz

Ad.2. -172dBc is ok but maybe at 1 MHz... and not 100Hz. That range is an Ultra-Ultra-Ultra Clock's range with 40.000 USD price.

Ad.3. i believe that the SQ is better after the tuning, it isn't a question. 

 

     For example  10 MHz clock with -147dB@10Hz is a very very good OCXO and the price is about 1500 USD. (This clock's phase noise is -168dB@10kHz)

 

 : 

 

"1. Frequency
- 10.000000 MHz
- 11.289600 MHz
- 12.000000 MHz
- 12.288000 MHz

- 12.500000 MHz
- 14.318000 MHz
- 16.934400 MHz
- 18.432000 MHz
- 20.000000 MHz
- 22.579200 MHz
- 24.576000 MHz
- 25.000000 MHz
- 27.000000 MHz
- 30.000000 MHz
- 40.000000 MHz
- 45.158400 MHz
- 48.000000 MHz
- 49.152000 MHz
- 54.000000 MHz

2. Jitter Noise : -172dBc/0.098PS RMS Jitter @100HZ ~ 1MHz

......

Please select the frequency when ordering.

For example : "45.158400 MHz" 

I spotted this too, but was charitable and assumed a typo, 100HZ should have been 100KHZ perhaps ?

But even then is "strong" performance getting to -172dBc at 100kHz.

 

Regardless of the clock details I think this is worth a look.

OAudio Ltd.

OAudio Supreme - music server.

OAudio RealStream - digital audio components.

 

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1 hour ago, OAudio said:

I spotted this too, but was charitable and assumed a typo, 100HZ should have been 100KHZ perhaps ?

But even then is "strong" performance getting to -172dBc at 100kHz.

 

Regardless of the clock details I think this is worth a look.

Yes, maybe 100kHz is true.

 

As i sad earlier a clock designer have a choice with their clock PCB: nearest or distant noise is the most important development point for the application (or frequency accuracy etc.).

 

That is a measurement of our 49.152 TCXO clock with FSWP:

 

CoreAudio_49.152_VCTCXO_PhaseNoise.thumb.png.87bcb318a90fae7c40e697a3194701ff.png

 

 

Manufacturer of Core Audio equipments

                www.coreaudio.eu

Source: Core Audio DAIDO ULTIMATE + CA KARUNA ULTIMATE USB/SPDIF Bridge + CA DENPO ULTIMATE DAC

Amplifiers: MBL 6010D preamp + MBL 9008A monoblocks

Loudspeakers: MBL 101emkII, YG Hailey 2.2

Cables: TARALABS USB, Muse Digit, Muse IC + ZERO Evolution, Muse SP

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3 hours ago, wittao said:

Yes, maybe 100kHz is true.

 

As i sad earlier a clock designer have a choice with their clock PCB: nearest or distant noise is the most important development point for the application (or frequency accuracy etc.).

 

That is a measurement of our 49.152 TCXO clock with FSWP:

 

CoreAudio_49.152_VCTCXO_PhaseNoise.thumb.png.87bcb318a90fae7c40e697a3194701ff.png

 

 

 

That's very nice close in performance for a ~50Mhz carrier.

Is this with a sinusoidal or HCMOS output ?   

OAudio Ltd.

OAudio Supreme - music server.

OAudio RealStream - digital audio components.

 

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1 minute ago, OAudio said:

 

That's very nice close in performance for a ~50Mhz carrier.

Is this with a sinusoidal or HCMOS output ?   

Thanks :)

The clock boards what we make have 2 SIN ans 3 HCMOS outputs/oscillator. And that measurement isn’t only just the oscillator’s data, it produce these parameters when it works in the PCB clock board.

 

 

MonoClock TriClock.JPG

Manufacturer of Core Audio equipments

                www.coreaudio.eu

Source: Core Audio DAIDO ULTIMATE + CA KARUNA ULTIMATE USB/SPDIF Bridge + CA DENPO ULTIMATE DAC

Amplifiers: MBL 6010D preamp + MBL 9008A monoblocks

Loudspeakers: MBL 101emkII, YG Hailey 2.2

Cables: TARALABS USB, Muse Digit, Muse IC + ZERO Evolution, Muse SP

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