Building a DIY Music Server

[cool_chris]

25 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

Now what I would like to know is how the clock upgrade compares to the switch mode regulators upgrade in sq gain. Both report a nice sq gain.

Sure !
why not BOTH ?

Nenon mode to Buffalo , than Jord mode with PinkFaun clock 

AND adding the 3 separate regulators !
planning to do so.
an ultimate switch 

 

[auricgoldfinger]

5 hours ago, cool_chris said:

And yes I can confirm thet the more switches the better.

 

Additionally adding ultra clocks tranformed the already great Bufflows to totally different levels.

So I have 2 Nenon Moded Buffalows now and 2 Nenon + Pink Faun moded  Buffalos.

I agree with Nenon findings that ONE Pink Faun ULTRA clock moded Buffao is better that stacked 4 Buffalos.

This clock simply adds something that is unreachable in normal switches.

It is so calm, fluid and transparent that nothing compares to that.

 

 

What is the magnitude of the change going from one PF switch to two?

[Brucemck2]

Where can someone in the US purchase these upgrade(s)? I have two unmodified units.

[cool_chris]

4 minutes ago, Brucemck2 said:

Where can someone in the US purchase these upgrade(s)? I have two unmodified units.

Contact Jord ! [email protected]

He can do that as full service in 2-3 days.

or PM  Nenon . He is from US.

Not sure if he will be willing to do that but you can ask .

In both scenarios clocks come from Jord any way .
 

[cool_chris]

31 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

What is the magnitude of the change going from one PF switch to two?

if 1 PF Buffalo is 100 %
Adding the second is additional 20% as of now. 

But keep in mind this are 4 days only so they might need longer burn in.
All is expected to improve much further.

in reality it is as Nenon mentioned already . Hard to point one difference because everything is a way better. 
After a week or 2 will try to do more testing.

now I just sit and listen.

first time I have absolute no need to change anything or to test.

 

[auricgoldfinger]

52 minutes ago, Brucemck2 said:

Where can someone in the US purchase these upgrade(s)? I have two unmodified units.

 

Jord is now a Melco dealer, so you also can order a fully modified S100 from him on a turnkey basis.

[Nenon]

Nice report @cool_chris! I was waiting to see your jaw dropping after the clock upgrade :). Those are the best moments of our hobby!

 

I've been very busy since I came back from vacation but I managed to replace the clocks on two more Buffalo switches for friends. They are sitting here and waiting for me to find time to do some listening tests to find out what two switches and even 3 switches with upgraded clocks can do before they go to their new owners. Luckily their owners are waiting for power supplies and not in a hurry to get the switches. 

 

I also have a M12 Gold switch waiting for me to compare to the PF Ultra Buffalo. That test needs some preparation, though. I want to make sure I am using identical ethernet cables (not an easy task as the M12 connectors are different), power supplies, and DC cables. This way I will eliminate as many unequal factors as possible. I am expecting to hear just a different flavor of fabulous, but you never know until you try. 

 

One thing that @cool_chris did not have, and I will probably have him to try is the new capacitor boards I created. They mount on the already existing four standoffs from the removed switching mode power supply. And that's what took the Buffalo in @austinpop's system to another level. I have some of these boards. I also have a couple Buffalo switches that are not claimed for yet. And I am also feeling more comfortable replacing the clock after doing three of these in a row. It's a risky and delicate operations, so there is always a chance to destroy the switch, and that's another reason I keep some extra Buffalos in my closet. 

 

52 minutes ago, Brucemck2 said:

Where can someone in the US purchase these upgrade(s)? I have two unmodified units.

I can modify a couple of switches but I am afraid to advertise this publicly as I just don't want this to take over my personal life. Best to send me a PM. Shipping from the US to Europe and back is not fun these days. 

[Exocer]

7 minutes ago, Nenon said:

I can modify a couple of switches but I am afraid to advertise this publicly as I just don't want this to take over my personal life. Best to send me a PM. Shipping from the US to Europe and back is not fun these days. 

 

Thanks @Nenon!

 

I would probably prefer to do it myself so there are no liability issues. Do you think you'll post a more detailed guide at some point for the "thrill seekers" among us?

 

My situation is a bit different because I was only able to source the POE version. Have to do some tests first to determine if the switch will work being fed 5-12V at the typical input after removal of the extra POE board...

 

One question I had was how do you stop the PF OCXO from using onboard power? Same with your motherboard clock upgrade. 

[cool_chris]

Nice report @cool_chris! I was waiting to see your jaw dropping after the clock upgrade :). Those are the best moments of our hobby!

 

Actually it did. Could not find it for few hours😁

I was not expecting that much difference. 

Thank you ! I wouldn't be here so happy without your help and knowledge. 

 

I have Ubiquity edgerouter and Ether Regen that I was feeding it with Mutec 10 mhz master . It was nice upgrade adding Ref10 but Pink Faun Clock upgrade is like 10 x delta you might get from the Mutec / ER combo.

I think this is due to the distance that you and Jord offer during upgrade.  It is only about 2 cm from the clock exit to the board versus 100 cm with ref10.

The shorter this distance the better !

Also there is no PLL loop that is mandatory with ref 10 feeding . That destroyes already great ref10 values.

The best solution is to have a clock right there when needed with correct frequency. 

 

 

[Downtheline]

2 hours ago, Brucemck2 said:

Where can someone in the US purchase these upgrade(s)? I have two unmodified units.

has anyone tried the PF clock upgrades on the BS-GS008 Buffalo variant? I have 2 of those. 

[Nenon]

50 minutes ago, Exocer said:

I would probably prefer to do it myself so there are no liability issues. Do you think you'll post a more detailed guide at some point for the "thrill seekers" among us?

 

My situation is a bit different because I was only able to source the POE version. Have to do some tests first to determine if the switch will work being fed 5-12V at the typical input after removal of the extra POE board...

 

Removing the stock clock is the biggest challenge. I can't really guide you on that part as it's kind of a struggle every time. Use the best tools you have. I do it with my teeth. Just kidding :). It's kind of a different process every time but always challenging. 

 

Once you remove the clock, it gets easier. You need a magnifying glass! This is cheap one with LED and works for me:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075WR4M99/

 

You solder two wires to the pins of the old clock (you can see where on the pictures below). These wires then connect to the output of the PinkFaun clock. Polarity does not matter in this case.

 

And then you have to find a place to mount the PinkFaun PCB board. I drill holes into the Buffalo board (another scary procedure as the Buffalo board has a lot of components on the back) and attach the PinkFaun board with standoffs.

 

The final step is to install a DC connector for the clock +5V. The pictures from one of my previous posts should be self-explanatory.

 

 

On 8/7/2020 at 9:05 PM, Nenon said:

Here are more details on my modified Buffalo switch. 

 

1. PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock - 25 MHz - https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/clock/67-2916-ultra-ocxo.html

It was difficult to remove the stock clock, but once I did the rest was easy. A couple people recommended the ChipQuik kit. That stuff is great and it works really good on chips with many legs that are exposed outside the chip. But because the four legs on this clock are under the clock, you don't really have access to them. 

The easiest way I have found so far was to cut the clock in half with sharp clippers and desolder each half individually by heating the two legs with my soldering iron. 

Here is a close up of the pins I used for the PinkFaun clock:

The filtering capacitors and resistors are not required. You can leave them or remove them per your preferences. 

I used a very fine 24 AWG solid silver wire in enamel, similar to what AudioNote sells. 

The clock is mounted on special vibration damping standoffs that decouple the clock from the switch board. 

The bolt with a red circle around is using one of the holes on the switch board. I drilled holes in the switch board for the other 3 holes. If you are careful with the alignment, you will end up with 3 safe to drill places. Just make sure you use non-conductive nuts or add non-conductive washers. I added plastic washers on the bottom in my case. Otherwise the nut would short one part of the PCB to ground. I believe this is why my previous attempt failed... I think the board I thought that failed might be working, but the mounting nuts caused a problem. 

 

2. The clock requires a dedicated 5V power supply. The quality of this power supply is crucial. I used a GX16 connector and 18 AWG Mundorf silver/gold wire.

 

3. I made a small PCB board to handle some extra capacitors. It mounts on the standoffs from the removed switching mode power supply. That should close the gap between the Buffalo and Melco switch. This board was done for my DIY hobby experiment only, and I won't talk much about it. 15.5 AWG Mundorf silver/gold wire is used on both sides of this board to connect it to the DC connector (GX16) and to the switch board. 

 

4. I added two additional filtering capacitors. One is a 2.2 uF Mundorf silver/gold/oil film cap. This is a decent film cap but not my favorite. There is no space for Duelund CAST caps in this chassis. The other one is a 100uF AudioNote Kaisei I had laying around. I may tweak those in the future but it's a good starting point. 

 

5. Grounding post. I used WBT Nextgen copper grounding post, just because I had a spare, and I like those and a 24 AWG stranded Neotech 7N copper wire. I don't like using solid wire for this type of grounding. I also don't like plated wires or much thicker wire. That should be a good balance. I ground the chassis and the clock, but will be experimenting more with that. For example I may ground the minus from the power supply to help shunting some of the noise. That's an area I would be exploring further.

I have a Taiko SETCHI D-3 to try and a Synergistic Research Active Ground Block SE. 

 

6. Chassis damping. This chassis is not designed for audio and wrapping with bitumen-based sound dampening material helps with the chassis vibration. 

 

7. Gaia feet. Not on the main picture, but additional vibration treatment with Gaia footers was also done.

That's it. Those are all my tweaks. 

The switch will be powered with a dual rail Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS and of course my favorite silver/gold DC cables. 

 

How does it sound? I am quite impressed so far but would like to live more time with it so it would properly burn-in and my bias settles down. But I know there will be some impatient members who would send me a PM asking about the sound, so I decided to take some notes and share my first impressions.

 

Initial impressions of the Buffalo with upgraded ultraOCXO clock.

My network during the test:

Arris SB8200 modem --(copper)--> Ubiquiti Router --(copper)--> Buffalo switch --(fiber with Fintech transceivers)--> etherRegen --(copper)--> server. 

I kept everything the same, just swapping two identical Buffalo switches, one with the stock clock and one with a PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock. Both Buffalo switches were powered up with the same 12V LPS by Sean Jacobs. The 5V for the clock was powered by a LPS-1.2 (temporarily until I get the parts needed to adjust my rails). 

The switch with an upgraded clock is much better. I can’t listen to the stock clocked Buffalos anymore . It's hard to describe the change. 

There is no particular area that was improved. I can't tell there is better midrange, or better highs, or more dynamics, or anything like that. But the overall coherence of the sound has improved. The improved timing has a big impact on how the instruments sound. The difference is similar to listening to a garage band vs. a professional band playing the same notes. The music sounds overall more enjoyable. 

What’s really cool is the level of PRAT you get from bad recordings. It does not make bad recordings sound like good recordings but it makes them so much more enjoyable. It’s like you listen to a bad recording on a good reel to reel. And that's an interesting thing as well - with this switch with a modified clock, my digital is a step further away from sounding digital. And that's for streaming Qobuz. The sound is not lean like with many digital components with improved clocks and linear regulators sound. The body of the Buffalo is still there. If anything has changed, there is maybe a level of harshness that has disappeared and the bass is more clear but still deep and impactful. 

I have found that switches also impact local storage playing for some reason. Don't really expect that changing the clock impacts locally stored files, but I think it does. But my focus is on streaming music from Qobuz. 

I still have a lot of tests to do. An interesting experiment would be what happens when I plug my server directly to the Buffalo with ultraOCXO clock. Right now the ultraOCXO clocked signal goes from the Buffalo to the etherREGEN, which has a good clock but not as good as the ultraOCXO. Does that mean I am losing some of the benefits of the good clock? Needs to be tested by connecting my server directly to the Buffalo switch. On the other hand, the etherREGEN is designed to minimise noise... However, in my system using the B-side of the etherREGEN is not as good as only utilizing the A-side, so I don't go across the moat and don't utilize that part of the etherREGEN design. What does that mean for the noise generated by these switches? Would the Buffalo generate more noise? TBD. One thing that may help is to shunt the power supply on the Buffalo to ground. That's something I am definitely going to try. 

But as we speak about differences between my modified Buffalo and the etherREGEN, we need  to keep things into prospective. The upgraded clock costs more than two etherREGENs. The power supply is another seven etherREGENs. The rest of the tweaks also cost as much as an ehterREGEN. And ever since we posted about those Buffalo switches here, the price went up 3 times, and they are still extremely difficult to find. I expect now PinkFaun will run out of clocks :)). And I need one more, so don't buy them all just yet. 

 

I will be modifying the clock on one more Buffalo and hopefully will be able to do some interesting tests.

For example, what happens when you connect two Buffalos with upgraded clocks together? How do they compare to the M12 gold switch which I have access to and will be testing soon? And what if you combine two Buffalos with ultraOCXO clocks with the M12 Gold switch? I mean other than getting divorced and filing for bankruptcy...

 

50 minutes ago, Exocer said:

One question I had was how do you stop the PF OCXO from using onboard power? Same with your motherboard clock upgrade. 

The PinkFaun board takes care of this. It's not just a clock but an entire circuit that you get. 

 

20 minutes ago, Downtheline said:

has anyone tried the PF clock upgrades on the BS-GS008 Buffalo variant? I have 2 of those. 

I doubt it. One of the challenges would be that there is not enough space to mount the clock inside that switch. And if you would be spending $1500 on a clock + installation fee, you better do it on the bigger switch that is used by Melco, has SFP ports, etc.  

[ASRMichael]

@Nenon Have you considered replacing your Asus (dual CPU) clock? 

[Nenon]

36 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

@Nenon Have you considered replacing your Asus (dual CPU) clock? 

 

Not really. Or I should say not yet. Three reasons for that.

1. It sounds so good that I don't want to touch anything at all!

2. The clocking on this motherboard is quite complex. I haven't spent enough time to fully understand it, and I need to do that before I attempt to do anything. I could make things worse otherwise just poking around with no clear understanding.

3. It's an expensive motherboard to destroy! Also, every time you attach/remove the homemade passive cooling there is a potential to damage the CPUs. I got this dialed in perfectly and have no desire to remove it. Already destroyed one CPU with my experiments. 

My motivation for changing the mobo clock is close to zero. Maybe I will get bored one day and run out of things to do. But not today :). 

 

Software changes on this computer make almost as much difference as a clock. I keep tweaking it and it keeps sounding better and better. The last experiment I've done, inspired by @austinpop and @romaz was to install HQplayer with affinities on one CPU and NAA with affinities to the other CPU. It's good to have two processors! I also created a loopback interface with ipv6. And I used ipv6 via the loopback interface to stream from the HQP to NAA. No upsampling, just using HQP as a bit perfect player. This brought the server that was sounding so great already to yet another level. Everything sounds so effortless now.

 

I have big and very efficient speakers with horn loaded compression tweeter, super tweeter, 10'' midrange driver, and 18'' bass driver. Not a big fan of the coaxial / one driver / no crossover speakers (i.e. Lowther based for example), but when done right, I can't argue the effortless presentation of those speakers! The effect of switching to HQP and NAA reminds me of that type of effortless presentation. And that's just a software change. 

 

Recently, I have discovered that playing music from my Optane PCIe card sounds better than playing music from the NVME storage in VROC RAID0. I asked a couple of Taiko Extreme owners to try that, and they did not hear such difference. So I have some catching up to do with Taiko on the local storage now. I would rather focus on that than replacing clocks. But honestly, I am at the point where I just enjoy playing music with no desire to make any changes. 

[RickyV]

4 hours ago, cool_chris said:

Sure !
why not BOTH ?

Nenon mode to Buffalo , than Jord mode with PinkFaun clock 

AND adding the 3 separate regulators !
planning to do so.
an ultimate switch 

 

👍 That would indeed be the ultimate switch. Then may I suggest you wait for @tgb to see if his solution to the 1V problem works, because it is probably the easiest. ( MPAudio transformer and 1V/ 5A regulator) My solution is a 1V/5A lt3045 regulator and in front of that an other 1.8 V higher power regulator with a reasonable heatsink. Then have a 1A ldovr regulator for the 1.5 and the 3.3V or an other MPAudio dual 2.5A regulator for the 1.5 and 3.3V and feed it all with a 5V 5A power supply with a big heatsink. 
Heat dissipation is a problem if you go all linear. The second best option would be to leave the 1V alone and power the switch with 12V and only do the 1.5V and 3.3V with linear regulators, much easier and no heat problem!

[taipan254]

23 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Not really. Or I should say not yet. Three reasons for that.

1. It sounds so good that I don't want to touch anything at all!

2. The clocking on this motherboard is quite complex. I haven't spent enough time to fully understand it, and I need to do that before I attempt to do anything. I could make things worse otherwise just poking around with no clear understanding.

3. It's an expensive motherboard to destroy! Also, every time you attach/remove the homemade passive cooling there is a potential to damage the CPUs. I got this dialed in perfectly and have no desire to remove it. Already destroyed one CPU with my experiments. 

My motivation for changing the mobo clock is close to zero. Maybe I will get bored one day and run out of things to do. But not today :). 

 

Software changes on this computer make almost as much difference as a clock. I keep tweaking it and it keeps sounding better and better. The last experiment I've done, inspired by @austinpop and @romaz was to install HQplayer with affinities on one CPU and NAA with affinities to the other CPU. It's good to have two processors! I also created a loopback interface with ipv6. And I used ipv6 via the loopback interface to stream from the HQP to NAA. No upsampling, just using HQP as a bit perfect player. This brought the server that was sounding so great already to yet another level. Everything sounds so effortless now.

 

I have big and very efficient speakers with horn loaded compression tweeter, super tweeter, 10'' midrange driver, and 18'' bass driver. Not a big fan of the coaxial / one driver / no crossover speakers (i.e. Lowther based for example), but when done right, I can't argue the effortless presentation of those speakers! The effect of switching to HQP and NAA reminds me of that type of effortless presentation. And that's just a software change. 

 

Recently, I have discovered that playing music from my Optane PCIe card sounds better than playing music from the NVME storage in VROC RAID0. I asked a couple of Taiko Extreme owners to try that, and they did not hear such difference. So I have some catching up to do with Taiko on the local storage now. I would rather focus on that than replacing clocks. But honestly, I am at the point where I just enjoy playing music with no desire to make any changes. 

Hi Nenon - How do you stream from Tidal / Qobuz in the HPQ / NAA world??

[Nenon]

7 minutes ago, taipan254 said:

Hi Nenon - How do you stream from Tidal / Qobuz in the HPQ / NAA world??

I don't. I switch to Roon for that. 

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

👍 That would indeed be the ultimate switch. Then may I suggest you wait for @tgb to see if his solution to the 1V problem works, because it is probably the easiest. ( MPAudio transformer and 1V/ 5A regulator) My solution is a 1V/5A lt3045 regulator and in front of that an other 1.8 V higher power regulator with a reasonable heatsink. Then have a 1A ldovr regulator for the 1.5 and the 3.3V or an other MPAudio dual 2.5A regulator for the 1.5 and 3.3V and feed it all with a 5V 5A power supply with a big heatsink. 
Heat dissipation is a problem if you go all linear. The second best option would be to leave the 1V alone and power the switch with 12V and only do the 1.5V and 3.3V with linear regulators, much easier and no heat problem!

 

This is funny , because I am at the position when it sounds so amazing I have no intetest of changing anything. 

Just like Nenon.

Extreme benefits from 4 Buffalo switches .

2 are with amazing Pink Faun clocks.

Half more day since 2st post and it is still improving!

This is the most important addition to any system.

 

[RickyV]

15 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

 

This is funny , because I am at the position when it sounds so amazing I have no intetest of changing anything. 

Just like Nenon.

Extreme benefits from 4 Buffalo switches .

2 are with amazing Pink Faun clocks.

Half more day since 2st post and it is still improving!

This is the most important addition to any system.

 

That’s cool cool_chris an ocxo takes two weeks to stabilize so until then it will improve. 
If you change your mind check out the Buffalo GS20xx - Bypass 12V stage via 3 external PSs thread.

[Nenon]

20 minutes ago, RickyV said:

an ocxo takes two weeks to stabilize so until then it will improve

Just initially? Or every time you power it off/on? 

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, Nenon said:But honestly, I am at the point where I just enjoy playing music with no desire to make any changes. 

😂😂😂😂! That’s because you just back from your vacation! Knowing you, you’ll have the itch again very soon.....

[RickyV]

21 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Just initially? Or every time you power it off/on? 

Hi  Nenon,

I am not an expert I just repeat what I have learned and John Swenson recently wrote this. Important for all ocxo users!

 

 

 

[cool_chris]

9 hours ago, Nenon said:

Just initially? Or every time you power it off/on? 

Initally it is several weeks as Jord explained.

But once burned in it takes 48h to get back to full potential after each power off.

Those clocs are disigned for 24/7 operation so we should keep them on at all times.

 

 

[NanoSword]

Newbie here ,
How someone can use HQ+NAA in same machine ? Is HQ have some additional feature when he detect dual CPU or you should use some sort of virtual machine to install another HQ?

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, NanoSword said:

Newbie here ,
How someone can use HQ+NAA in same machine ? Is HQ have some additional feature when he detect dual CPU or you should use some sort of virtual machine to install another HQ?

 

HQPlayer 4 Desktop and Network Audio Daemon are two different applications. You can run them on the same Windows computer by double clicking on each app. It does not matter how many processors you have. Since I have two CPUs, I can set affinities and have one run on the CPU0 cores and the other on the CPU1 cores. 

[Exocer]

15 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

HQPlayer 4 Desktop and Network Audio Daemon are two different applications. You can run them on the same Windows computer by double clicking on each app. It does not matter how many processors you have. Since I have two CPUs, I can set affinities and have one run on the CPU0 cores and the other on the CPU1 cores. 

Is there an equivalent setup for the Linux world? I am just getting handy with HQPLAYER embedded.