Analog Cable Help

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - I’m looking for help from everyone, whether objective, subjective, or a combination of the two. 
 

I need to run a balanced interconnect 30 feet, under my floor. It will lay right next to and probably will touch a Romex 12AWG power cable under the floor.  The cable will connect from DACs and Preamps to amplifiers.

 

I’m a fan of Transparent Cables but a 30 foot balanced cable is going to be too costly. I looked around at Redco to create my own cable but the options were hard to understand. 
 

Question: Can you guys give me recommendations for this cable?

[marce]

I would worry about magnetic coupling from the Romex, especially if they are very close, screening out h fields is harder than e fields...

I use a fair bit of balanced cable,  I just get a decent one pro one so as to type I could not advise on...

If I was making one I would be tempted to use starquad configuration for your run, it does have some advantages when it comes to noise pick up.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Looks like there's a star quad cable available from Blue Jeans cable.

 

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/balancedaudio/index.htm

[The Computer Audiophile]

Two of them here as well - https://www.iconoclastcable.com/xlr/index.htm

[Jud]

Star quad here as well, seems reasonably priced: https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/a12.html

 

Edit: Oh, balanced. They have that also, just have a look around their site.

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

Star quad here as well, seems reasonably priced: https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/a12.html

 

Edit: Oh, balanced. They have that also, just have a look around their site.

Thanks Jud. Looks like I can order a 30' Gotham GAC-4, same as on the Ghent Audio site, with enhanced RF shielded Neutrik connectors for $78 from Redco. A 10' version from Ghent is $125 (likely $375 for 30'). I like to support HiFi manufacturers, but the price difference of roughly $300 per cable is a bit too large. 

[Foggie]

40 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Thanks Jud. Looks like I can order a 30' Gotham GAC-4, same as on the Ghent Audio site, with enhanced RF shielded Neutrik connectors for $78 from Redco. A 10' version from Ghent is $125 (likely $375 for 30'). I like to support HiFi manufacturers, but the price difference of roughly $300 per cable is a bit too large. 

FWIW - I run the GAC-4 as well (2 pairs) > 20ft to monos and the 30ft to subs.  See rig layout in profile for ref.
 

Running a true balanced Pre eliminated the need for much more than really well engineered cables, plus I wasn’t about to pay for Uber $$.  That’s just me.
 

Rarely talked about cables though, but their specs are some of the best out there and have been happy thus far.  Like you stated, in those lengths one would be well into the $xx,xxx for name cables.

 

I had some made direct from Gotham and the other from Pro Audio LA

[Speedskater]

Bill Whitlock writes about: Magnetic Fields from Power Cords & Cables

"At a distance of 2 or 3 inches, the magnetic fields from power cords & cables are negligibly weak."

[Ralf11]

will it run parallel to the Romex or across it at 90o?

 

also is the Romex always carrying current?

[marce]

Nice to know. Does he mention mains cable run in metal conduit, wonder if its worse or better.?

Downstairs I don't have this issue, UFH and tiles, hiding cables though is an issue.😀

[The Computer Audiophile]

26 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

will it run parallel to the Romex or across it at 90o?

 

also is the Romex always carrying current?

Parallel and always carrying current.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 hours ago, Jud said:

Star quad here as well, seems reasonably priced: https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/a12.html

 

Edit: Oh, balanced. They have that also, just have a look around their site.

I went to the Gotham site and found four different versions of the GAC-4 cable Looks like Ghent has the "best" one, so I'm not sure the price difference wasn't warranted. Still searching. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here are the cables I'm looking at https://gothamcables.com/en/gothamcables/starquad

[Ralf11]

28 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Parallel and always carrying current.

 

I would spend the $$ for a balanced cable run (or use WiFi!) and try very hard to get a bit of separation of audio & AC cabling.  You could get some sort of stand-offs to separate them.

 

It might not matter but 30 ft. is a lot

[Ralf11]

How much access is there to work on things?

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

How much access is there to work on things?

I have to fish the cable through. So, none. 

[JoeWhip]

Mogami works very well.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I wonder if squeezing some kind of conduit in there would help? Not sure I can do it, but maybe.

[Jud]

9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I wonder if squeezing some kind of conduit in there would help? Not sure I can do it, but maybe.

 

There's blue lightweight flexible plastic conduit the contractors around here call "Smurf tube" because of its color, which works very nicely for various types of electrical cables.

[fas42]

To me, this is a 'killer decision' - get it wrong, and the SQ will always be subpar, no matter what I do elsewhere. I have no "this is what you should use!" answer, because the real efforts need to be made in getting the link organised so that no noise generating mechanisms can play a part.

[4est]

29 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I wonder if squeezing some kind of conduit in there would help? Not sure I can do it, but maybe.

Here at my home I used PVC drain pipe as conduit with two 45s instead of a 90 to make it easier to fish through. Have you considered just running the cables under the carpet with slits in and out? I know it seems like a hack, but something thin like mogami wouldn't likely make a hump- you could even remove a slice of pad. I have seen this in multi million dollar homes FWIW. I wanted mine readily replaceable though.

[phosphorein]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Here are the cables I'm looking at https://gothamcables.com/en/gothamcables/starquad

I’ve used Markertek canare starquad in the past for 30’ runs and terminated with Neutrik connectors.  Not expensive and well made.

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

will it run parallel to the Romex or across it at 90o?

 

 A very good point. You should always cross it at 90 degrees wherever possible

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I wonder if squeezing some kind of conduit in there would help? Not sure I can do it, but maybe.

 

yes, esp. if metal - think Faraday Cage

 

even plastic would serve to act as a standoff

 

sure, you don't want to rip the wall out?

 

(you could just cut a horizontal slot for most of it - then redo the drywall & paint - or cover with diffuser panels and artwork)

[esldude]

I've measured some things like this.  Even balanced if touching the romex most of the way you might get some hum into it.  The level is likely inaudible, but not beyond measuring.  Move it even a few inches and it is gone.  This is with the cables running parallel.  If it were just crossing the romex a time or two no problem. 

 

It also will matter if the gear is truly balanced or pseudo-balanced with such close proximity.  What the CMRR is. 

 

For a permanent thing like this, I'd investigate a separate conduit.  The rule of thumb in recording studios running mic cables is if they have to parallel power feeds to be 3 to 6 inches away from the power lines. 

 

You also might think about using baseboard cable raceways to run the xlr. 

https://www.amazon.com/D-Line-Raceway-1D3015M-Surface-Electrical/dp/B07C5DTCMM/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=baseboard+cable+raceway&qid=1576795979&sr=8-6

 

The above is one example as there are many.