"Audiophile" SD Card Transport?

[Ralf11]

the issue is whether some one else spends a lot of money or time on something that doesn't work

 

Peter has already explained the reasons why

[asdf1000]

On 2/4/2019 at 11:22 AM, gstew said:

The Granddad of SD card players is the SDTrans384. You can see the large thread on it at DIYAudio here:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/142562-microsd-memory-card-transport-project.html?highlight=sdtrans384

 

AND info on how to get one when the infrequent group-buys are run here:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/260565-gb-sdtrans384-micro-sd-card-digital-transport.html?highlight=sdtrans384

 

BTW, Tachyon is doing a run of the units right now, with the last price I saw about 43,000 JPY (about $400 USD).

 

I've been running one as a digital source for 3-4 years now, feeding a wildly modified Soekris DAM DAC. I modified the SDTran too last summer. It's been the main digital source in one of my systems for about 2 years now and I listen to it on a daily basis. 

 

Here's my setup as of a couple of years ago before my latest mods to both the SDTrans and the Soekris DAC and my latest power scheme:

 

 

The SDTrans384 was designed by pretty fanatic Japanese audiophiles. The unit, like most digital audio gear, performs better with very good power. At one point they were using large light bulbs to feed solar cells to power the player and their related DAC. Most recently they have been using a fairly extensive set of AC-connected supplies... see picture. I power mine with 2 Uptone Audio LPS-1.2's with each feeding 1/2 of an MPAudio MD-HPULN power supply and the outputs of each half paralleled to provide a lower output impedance (the current draw of the player is less than 500mA). It has S/PDIF, PS Audio-styled LVDS I2S over HDMI, and logic-level I2S outputs and will play up to 384 & DSD256. The SDTrans384 does not decode FLAC or other compression schemes (that's how limited the FPGA is!), the TiNaHiFi one does some.

 

 

Ok, it is my favorite and best digital source. AND I suspect the much less expensive one in the TirNaHiFi thread will challenge it after appropriate mods, though I also suspect applying the same mods to the SDTrans would keep it ahead of that challenger. I have a couple of the TirNaHiFi ones here from regular Ebay to modify & compare. BUT the best output of the SDTrans384 is the I2S AND that is the only output of the one on TirNaHiFi, which doesn't do you a lot of good, Doak. 

 

I looked strongly at the QLS QA661 when it first came out and have followed ECDesign's monster TDA1541 DAC DIYAudio thread for years, where he chronicles his DAC developments over the years and occasionally drops hints on his SD Card players. I my thoughts, after digging into the QLS units as much as I could without having one, was that the SDTrans384 was probably a better sounding option the way I would use it.

 

I'd say anything by ECDesigns would be top of the heap, with the SDTrans384 a good strong second along with possibly the TirNaHiFi player. BUT they are DIY projects with no USB output. 

 

Alex nails it above. Getting USB output would require a full computer of some sort... and you'd be back in USB optimization world. The SDTrans384 uses a fairly dumb FPGA for processing, the TirNaHiFi card a small ARM processor. I don't see anyone doing that in the near future, playing off SD Cards is super hair shirt and it took me awhile to get a sufficient amount of my library on SD Cards to keep me satisfied 90% of the time. Most people won’t put up with that AND no streaming… not a sufficiently large market.

 

BUT given the Lampizator’s DIY roots, you might ask what it would take to modify it to accept an I2S or I2S over HDMI input, especially if they could retain any other existing digital source selections. That MIGHT give you a chance to have your cake and eat it too, for a price.

 

Still, the limitations of SD Card playback alone (AND I don’t stream at all) have me trying hard to get my other main I2S sources (mostly Raspberry Pis) up to the SDTrans384 level. I was heartened that when I modified one with linear regulators replacing the on-board DC-DC converters and with a dual LPS-1.2 / MPAudio power supply as above, it was about as good as my SDTrans384 setup with a lower-quality power supply. I now am watching what Allo.com is doing to make some improved SBCs… that might be what puts them over the top. OR once the EtherRegen is available, maybe the expected isolation of any prior network gear may push what I have now into that same level. We will see!

 

In the meantime, I’m buying a 2^nd SDTrans384 so I can further modify the one I have and have a backup if I break it!

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

Wow, this is incredible. This is a world I never knew about.

 

While it's not for me (I don't have the patience, intelligence or skill that's displayed here - I'm jealous), I do love reading about the different passions people have in this fun hobby, all finding different ways to enjoy the music.

 

Kudos.

[The Computer Audiophile]

On 2/3/2019 at 6:22 PM, gstew said:

The Granddad of SD card players is the SDTrans384. You can see the large thread on it at DIYAudio here:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/142562-microsd-memory-card-transport-project.html?highlight=sdtrans384

 

AND info on how to get one when the infrequent group-buys are run here:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/260565-gb-sdtrans384-micro-sd-card-digital-transport.html?highlight=sdtrans384

 

BTW, Tachyon is doing a run of the units right now, with the last price I saw about 43,000 JPY (about $400 USD).

 

I've been running one as a digital source for 3-4 years now, feeding a wildly modified Soekris DAM DAC. I modified the SDTran too last summer. It's been the main digital source in one of my systems for about 2 years now and I listen to it on a daily basis. 

 

Here's my setup as of a couple of years ago before my latest mods to both the SDTrans and the Soekris DAC and my latest power scheme:

 

 

The SDTrans384 was designed by pretty fanatic Japanese audiophiles. The unit, like most digital audio gear, performs better with very good power. At one point they were using large light bulbs to feed solar cells to power the player and their related DAC. Most recently they have been using a fairly extensive set of AC-connected supplies... see picture. I power mine with 2 Uptone Audio LPS-1.2's with each feeding 1/2 of an MPAudio MD-HPULN power supply and the outputs of each half paralleled to provide a lower output impedance (the current draw of the player is less than 500mA). It has S/PDIF, PS Audio-styled LVDS I2S over HDMI, and logic-level I2S outputs and will play up to 384 & DSD256. The SDTrans384 does not decode FLAC or other compression schemes (that's how limited the FPGA is!), the TiNaHiFi one does some.

 

 

Ok, it is my favorite and best digital source. AND I suspect the much less expensive one in the TirNaHiFi thread will challenge it after appropriate mods, though I also suspect applying the same mods to the SDTrans would keep it ahead of that challenger. I have a couple of the TirNaHiFi ones here from regular Ebay to modify & compare. BUT the best output of the SDTrans384 is the I2S AND that is the only output of the one on TirNaHiFi, which doesn't do you a lot of good, Doak. 

 

I looked strongly at the QLS QA661 when it first came out and have followed ECDesign's monster TDA1541 DAC DIYAudio thread for years, where he chronicles his DAC developments over the years and occasionally drops hints on his SD Card players. I my thoughts, after digging into the QLS units as much as I could without having one, was that the SDTrans384 was probably a better sounding option the way I would use it.

 

I'd say anything by ECDesigns would be top of the heap, with the SDTrans384 a good strong second along with possibly the TirNaHiFi player. BUT they are DIY projects with no USB output. 

 

Alex nails it above. Getting USB output would require a full computer of some sort... and you'd be back in USB optimization world. The SDTrans384 uses a fairly dumb FPGA for processing, the TirNaHiFi card a small ARM processor. I don't see anyone doing that in the near future, playing off SD Cards is super hair shirt and it took me awhile to get a sufficient amount of my library on SD Cards to keep me satisfied 90% of the time. Most people won’t put up with that AND no streaming… not a sufficiently large market.

 

BUT given the Lampizator’s DIY roots, you might ask what it would take to modify it to accept an I2S or I2S over HDMI input, especially if they could retain any other existing digital source selections. That MIGHT give you a chance to have your cake and eat it too, for a price.

 

Still, the limitations of SD Card playback alone (AND I don’t stream at all) have me trying hard to get my other main I2S sources (mostly Raspberry Pis) up to the SDTrans384 level. I was heartened that when I modified one with linear regulators replacing the on-board DC-DC converters and with a dual LPS-1.2 / MPAudio power supply as above, it was about as good as my SDTrans384 setup with a lower-quality power supply. I now am watching what Allo.com is doing to make some improved SBCs… that might be what puts them over the top. OR once the EtherRegen is available, maybe the expected isolation of any prior network gear may push what I have now into that same level. We will see!

 

In the meantime, I’m buying a 2^nd SDTrans384 so I can further modify the one I have and have a backup if I break it!

 

Greg in Mississippi

Finally a system my wife will accept in our living room!

 

Only kidding.

 

If it makes you happy, it can’t be that bad. 

- Sheryl Crow

[barrows]

2 hours ago, Doak said:

I am seeking to simplify the process of playing back digital music files with a possibly simultaneous result of simplicity and enhanced sound quality.

Not here to prove anything.

Not here to argue.

“Why’s” are nice to know, but it’s the “What’s” that really matter. 

Besides, I’d rather be listening to music. 

OK, I am confused now.  I already have a system which is super simple to operate and playback any music in my library.  Everything  is accessed from a tablet and with a couple of taps I can play any music in my library in a coupe of seconds with no issues and no agonizing over anything, and the sound quality of the source is fantastically good.  And my library can be as huge  as many TBs, or for those who enjoy streamed music from the Internet (which is not me though) I hear Quobuz offers almost unlimited access to music of all genres with equal quality to home based playback (I have not tested myself, i play only locally stored files here).

What could be simpler, fiddling around with tiny SD cards?  i am just not sure i understand what "problem" SD card based playback would solve, and how?

I have no issue with whatever you might like to do/try with your system, but your stated desire for simpler process and better sound does not seem like something which would be served by an SD card player?

[Paul R]

3 hours ago, Doak said:

I am seeking to simplify the process of playing back digital music files with a possibly simultaneous result of simplicity and enhanced sound quality.

Not here to prove anything.

Not here to argue.

“Why’s” are nice to know, but it’s the “What’s” that really matter. 

Besides, I’d rather be listening to music. 

 

Good attitude, and who knows? You may prove those of us with conventional attitudes have really missed something.  

 

I tend to think that isolating the playback computer from the storage buys a lot more than the media it is playing from. Along with that, low power playback machines seem both to allow tuning of the OS a bit, and almost always sound better to me. Thus, an iPad can sound breathtakingly beautiful playing a network stream, better than with locally stored files. 

 

I have found that SD cards are about as “noisy” a storage medium, electrically speaking, as there is. I would therefore avoid putting it in the playback machine, but it will be fun to see what you come up with. That’s the point though isn’t it? Having fun trying something cool, even if it turns out to not work as expected.

 

[tapatrick]

8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

what is the benefit of using a SD Card to store music files?

When you try one of the recommended ones posted above with clean power you will understand. 

[Doak]

5 hours ago, barrows said:

OK, I am confused now.  I already have a system which is super simple to operate and playback any music in my library.  Everything  is accessed from a tablet and with a couple of taps I can play any music in my library in a coupe of seconds with no issues and no agonizing over anything, and the sound quality of the source is fantastically good.  And my library can be as huge  as many TBs, or for those who enjoy streamed music from the Internet (which is not me though) I hear Quobuz offers almost unlimited access to music of all genres with equal quality to home based playback (I have not tested myself, i play only locally stored files here).

What could be simpler, fiddling around with tiny SD cards?  i am just not sure i understand what "problem" SD card based playback would solve, and how?

I have no issue with whatever you might like to do/try with your system, but your stated desire for simpler process and better sound does not seem like something which would be served by an SD card player?

IMO there is nothing simple about the music playback system you describe.

[Doak]

3 hours ago, tapatrick said:

When you try one of the recommended ones posted above with clean power you will understand. 

I would LOVE to get my ears on what you guys are doing. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Doak said:

IMO there is nothing simple about the music playback system you describe.

While I disagree with you, I really do see what you're going for and see that many may think it's a simpler method of enjoying audio. In a way it's like vinyl and CD. Physical media and the slowing of the process. Adding music to an SD card can be done by nearly anyone without thinking. No network headaches etc...

 

I get it and I think it's cool people are exploring this avenue. 

[Doak]

The following is from what I feel was a a good and beneficial, hopefully both, off forum exchange between Barrows and myself.  Thought it may be good to post here also for some possible clarification.

====================================

Here’s where I am coming from:

My experience with network playback for the past 4 years or so has been, it seems,  fraught with many headaches and way too much wasted time “dicking with” the equipment. I did the 2 computer network with Roon, etc. then the optimization. It was just too much stuff.

I went to Auralic Aries 3 yrs ago and it too has been too much of a headache. It is due back today from repair for 2nd time. Maybe I just got a lemon. It sounds great though, but again so much wasted time getting it to work properly and with optimizing playback in system , add-ons, power supplies, trick cables, etc, etc.

I started “Computer Audio” in 2003 with purpose built computer and several hundred CD rips, then early hi-res files and 7.2 surround sound system. I folded all that when the computer died after 3-4 years. Back to CD player and turntable and 2 speakers.

While the Aries was gone I began playing LPs again and I found it very, very relaxing. I feel the SD card may bring some of that simplicity to my digital playback. If I can get it to sound nearly as good as Auralic AOK,, if better than that is GREAT. Using SD cards in my car I am is what got me thinking about using them in the "Big Rig" in the music room. It instantly puts all albums from 128GB on screen and plays hi-res files up to 24-96.

Aries is due back to me today. My 1st small experiment with SD card transport will begin in a few days. Will be interesting to compare. 

I may not want to live with just SD card but I think it may find a place in my system. That is what this endeavor/experiment is about. 

[Doak]

More from the off forum exchange that may lend some perspective:

I know for a fact that I am not alone in my experience with networked audio's complications, trials and tribulations. Also and it's a BIG also: Very many purported audiophile type folks are plainly too confused and/or intimidated to even attempt setting up such a system fro their own use. This is from my is 1st hand experience as a founding member of our local audio club. I was one of only 2 or 3 who even made the attempt.

I did a seminar on the subject about 4 years ago (when I was more enthusiastic about it). The seminar was very well attended but I am not aware that any more than one attendee did anything with it. The interest was there but people did not want to do what needed to be done to make it a reality of their own.

I am fairly new I suppose to this forum - about 4 years. Hanging out here may bring a skewed view of the audiophile world at large. I've repeatedly seen the hard evidence that many people who are interested feel that it is "just not there yet" for them - and I agree: For too many people it IS just not "there" yet. 

Maybe the type of Digital Audio Playback system I will be talking about here can serve as an "entry level" for some of these folks. Also, for some it may be as far as they want or need to go. Some of the things I am seeing are pretty slick. If they sound really good too then ......

[Monge]

Hi Doak,

Thanks for creating this thread.

I’m following this thread with great interest.

Some say that SLC SD/mSD is the cards to get for Music playback. But these cards are expensive.

Regards and good luck with your research

Monge

[Paul R]

6 minutes ago, Doak said:

I've repeatedly seen the hard evidence that many people who are interested feel that it is "just not there yet" for them - and I agree: For too many people it IS just not "there" yet. 

 

Maybe the problem is partly in the definition. 

 

Literally millions of people use streaming network audio every day, mostly without complexity or problems. Consider a large percentage of cell phone users use Apple, Tidal, Spotify, Pandora, Amazon, and dozens of other services. 

 

It simply cannot be too complex or difficult, or millions of people would not use them.  So you may be talking with folks who are creating some kind of self fufilling prophecy. 

 

You can get the same simplicity in the audiophile world, if you look at things from the right perspective. Create and/or install reliable networking, good internet connections, good software you don’t have to constantly fiddle with - and playback becomes as simple and reliable as streaming Apple Music on your phone. Even easier actually. 

 

In fact, your phone will probably be one of your playback endpoints - and youcan and should rxpect it to be every bit as reliable as whem you stream any other service. 

 

Now audiophiles will argue endlessly about this or that making a difference - everything from ethernet cables to DRAM brands. Ignore all that until you get a simple reliable system up. Then, if you want, play away with anything you want to. It will be fun because it is play - not grudging work.

 

-Paul

 

 

[Doak]

1 hour ago, Paul R said:

 

Maybe the problem is partly in the definition. 

 

Literally millions of people use streaming network audio every day, mostly without complexity or problems. Consider a large percentage of cell phone users use Apple, Tidal, Spotify, Pandora, Amazon, and dozens of other services. 

 

It simply cannot be too complex or difficult, or millions of people would not use them.  So you may be talking with folks who are creating some kind of self fufilling prophecy. 

 

You can get the same simplicity in the audiophile world, if you look at things from the right perspective. Create and/or install reliable networking, good internet connections, good software you don’t have to constantly fiddle with - and playback becomes as simple and reliable as streaming Apple Music on your phone. Even easier actually. 

 

In fact, your phone will probably be one of your playback endpoints - and youcan and should rxpect it to be every bit as reliable as whem you stream any other service. 

 

Now audiophiles will argue endlessly about this or that making a difference - everything from ethernet cables to DRAM brands. Ignore all that until you get a simple reliable system up. Then, if you want, play away with anything you want to. It will be fun because it is play - not grudging work.

 

-Paul

 

 

Just calling em as I see em, Dr. Paul. 

[Paul R]

(grin)  Well, I am kind of excited to see what you find out, so please do tell about the process and the results. It does sound like you are finding a way to have some fun!  

 

[Doak]

7 minutes ago, Paul R said:

(grin)  Well, I am kind of excited to see what you find out, so please do tell about the process and the results. It does sound like you are finding a way to have some fun!  

 

UPS just dropped (literally) my "new to me" Aries - whole different machine, to my happy surprise. 

Haven't plugged it into the system yet though and interestingly I am in no hurry.

The sun is shining and its 78 here.... Think I'd rather take the 3 mile walk  we've staked out.  

It'll still be here when we return.

[Doak]

On 1/30/2019 at 1:55 PM, Norton said:

 

in spirit if not letter of request:

 

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/info/upl16

 

I use one with companion DAC -  best RBCD replay I’ve heard for detail retrieval.  <€800 the pair.

 

Alternatively, you can get good s/h deals on the Resonessence Mirus (factory upgradeable to signature pro spec)

If this little gizmo handled WAV files up to 24-192 my quest would likely be done - though it is a bit on the "hair shirt" side of things. 

I expect there are some really good reasons why it does not.

Wonder what the tradeoffs might be to accommodate higher resolution files?

[Doak]

 

9 hours ago, Monge said:

Hi Doak,

Thanks for creating this thread.

I’m following this thread with great interest.

Some say that SLC SD/mSD is the cards to get for Music playback. But these cards are expensive.

Regards and good luck with your research

Monge

You’re Welcome, Monge.

Appreciate your interest, and thanks for the tip.

Seems I’ve some research to do. 👍

[Doak]

1 hour ago, Doak said:

 

You’re Welcome, Monge.

Appreciate your interest, and thanks for the tip.

Seems I’ve some research to do. 👍

Yep, those guys can be somewhat pricey.  😲

[Norton]

8 hours ago, Doak said:

If this little gizmo handled WAV files up to 24-192 my quest would likely be done - though it is a bit on the "hair shirt" side of things. 

I expect there are some really good reasons why it does not.

Wonder what the tradeoffs might be to accommodate higher resolution files?

 

 

There’s a 24/96 version too at extra cost , although still very reasonably priced.

My recommendation though would be to get the matching DAC as well (also comes  in 16 and 24 bit versions)

[Doak]

7 hours ago, Norton said:

 

 

There’s a 24/96 version too at extra cost , although still very reasonably priced.

My recommendation though would be to get the matching DAC as well (also comes  in 16 and 24 bit versions)

Very, very interesting.

Will check it out.

[Doak]

Preview of what our mail lady is due to drop here this afternoon:

http://en.auneaudio.com/index.php?s=Home/Article/detail/id/101.html

Has coax,AES & toslink outs.

Accepts up to 128GB sd cards.

Good up to 24-192 PCM & DSD64

We'll be finding out if all of that is true and just how well it performs its duties.

[Doak]

Unboxing the Aune X5s:

 

 

 

$275 delivered price made it a no-brainer. Other candidates are more sophisticated, substantially larger and significantly more expensive. Figured this one made for a good “starter” in my exploration.

[Doak]

Hmmmm.... Aune has previously offered the X5 in a streamer only version with I2S AND USB outs. Now wondering if getting one of these inhouse to compare with the X5s may be worthwhile. Would at least be interesting.

 

[Doak]

Aune X5s is online and playing - as SD card transport via coax out into my Lampizator DAC. Very early absolutely first impression: Sounds good. 

Was a bit of a battle getting to this point though.... news @ 11. 😋

O

 

Will give it it some time to burn/run-in before doing a comparo with my “Big He-man TRUE Audiophile” streaming rig with cost just about 10X dollars as the Aune X5s.  

Since this little player contains a DAC at some point I’ll get around to hearing it playing alone into the system, then pitting it against the Auralic/Lampizator combo.