ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[Ralf11]

apparently I had not reached a stable equilibrium point when I mis-posted a sci-fi author as the ... ah.. author

 

instead, my sci-fi response surface was in a stable limit cycle

 

I will conduct a global stability analysis before sci-fi author posting next time

 

or maybe just a sensitivity analysis simulation

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

5 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

nonetheless, even those who were educated or inculcated in a liberal art, and shielded form all scientific knowledge in college should ask, and not be so dogmatic

 

Perhaps our artists just have not had all imagination "inculcated" out of them in favor of a doctrinaire of reductionist physicalism that seems to be "inculcated" into many applied sciences. It is worth noting here that Imagination is no more synonymous with magic or illusion any more than mechanistic reductionist fragmentation necessarily loses itself into itself becoming nothingness. Both approaches IMO can lead you astray. Just that without imagination, there would be little by way of new discovery.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Asimov also said "the most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but 'That's funny...WTF!"

I think I may have added the WTF part.

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

reductionist physicalism 

 

Wazzat??

 

 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

41 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Wazzat??

 

 

 

 

Reductionism is an approach to understanding the nature of complex things by reducing them to the interactions of their parts, or to simpler or more fundamental things.

 

 Physicalism - the philosophical position that everything which exists is no more extensive than its physical properties, that everything in the world can be reduced down to its fundamental physical, or material, basis.

 

Fragmentalism contends that the world is indeed composed of separable parts, and that it is chiefly knowable through the study of these component parts, rather than through wholes

 

 Reductionist Fallacy occurs when it is assumed that there is a single, simple cause of an outcome when in reality it may have been caused by a number of only jointly sufficient causes.

 

That component bits of an audio signal must explain audibilty or its corollary if it can't be measured it can't be heard. The premises are compelling and logical but nonetheless invoke reductionist mechanisms and inductive reasoning which might be fallacious.

 

It could be argued that such propositions are examples of inductive reasoning starting with specific observations and measures and forming general conclusions (whereas deductive reasoning works from 'top-down'). In either approach, hypothesis is born and needs to be tested.

 

...as I see it, anyway.

[Ralf11]

No, I mean who teaches it?   I can't find that course title anywhere.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

No, I mean who teaches it?   I can't find that course title anywhere.

 

Teachers teach it. Reasoning is part of Philosophy and Science. Most Universities have courses in both. Ralph, perhaps some night classes might be sufficient for you ?

[AnotherSpin]

9 hours ago, mansr said:

Make that Arthur C. Clarke.

 

couple from Sir Arthur:

 

"New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can't be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it's not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!"

 

"Perhaps it is better to be un-sane and happy, than sane and un-happy."

[jabbr]

10 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

That component bits of an audio signal must explain audibilty or its corollary if it can't be measured it can't be heard. The premises are compelling and logical but nonetheless invoke reductionist mechanisms and inductive reasoning which might be fallacious.

I understand the issues well. When we talk about the specific behavior of specific electrical systems we are in perhaps the very strongest area of physics in terms of our understanding, based on equations.

 

Psychology & behavior not so much. 

 

Apropos thus thread, an assertion has been made that DC cable inductance affects the behavior of specific components, and that this leads to improvements in soundstage. Various cables have been made. Measuring inductance is doable. This is a specific physically testable assertion. 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

40 minutes ago, jabbr said:

I understand the issues well. When we talk about the specific behavior of specific electrical systems we are in perhaps the very strongest area of physics in terms of our understanding, based on equations.

 

Psychology & behavior not so much. 

 

I agree

 

40 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Apropos thus thread, an assertion has been made that DC cable inductance affects the behavior of specific components, and that this leads to improvements in soundstage. Various cables have been made. Measuring inductance is doable. This is a specific physically testable assertion.  

 

I agree that DC cable inductance is measurable and that whether that is a physical correlate of soundstage is potentially testable.My problem lies with people that skip the testable part of the hypothesis, confusing premises based in physical facts with conclusions.

[paulkouhan]

On 6/11/2018 at 4:45 PM, Cornan said:

Oh man! This thing just blew my mind just listening to the first 2 minutes to the first track (Encomium- Reverie) on Mike Dawes - Era! ?

 

 

The Supra DAC came back BIG time by the simple switch between the wires. Now each pair is connected to each pole and the drain wires of both cables are connected into a full loop.

 

Crazy! I guessed that it would make the Supra DAC more competetive against the BiLine MKII, but not ever to THIS extent! There are fibers and music glow in loads. Crispy high ends, smooth midrange and deep low ends. Air, 3D, 4D and everything else improved in a stroke of a lightning. No burn-in required at all. Just like a gate of heaven was suddenly opened for me to see all the bright lights, vivid colours and deep black colours. It really kicked the butt of any DC cable that I have ever tried before. I just love this crazy hobby! ?

 

I know what I want to do now. Change all my Ghent JSSG DC cables and Canare 4S6 into this! ?

 

Hi,

 

I made the same cables as you !!

Thank you for sharing it. It is awsome.

I had some silver plated DC cables, then SUPRA CAT 8, and finally the SUPRA DAC.

 

Just the facts : there is an audible amelioration.

A friend of mine came today, I told him Iwill make some changes, without telling him what I will do.

From CAT 8 to 20 AWG silver plated, he found the sound not as good.

Back to CAT 8, he found the sound better.

Then to SUPRA DAC, he found the sound better again.

 

It is very simple to ABX.

 

Corman please share your next findings !!

 

 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, paulkouhan said:

 

Hi,

 

I made the same cables as you !!

Thank you for sharing it. It is awsome.

I had some silver plated DC cables, then SUPRA CAT 8, and finally the SUPRA DAC.

 

Just the facts : there is an audible amelioration.

A friend of mine came today, I told him Iwill make some changes, without telling him what I will do.

From CAT 8 to 20 AWG silver plated, he found the sound not as good.

Back to CAT 8, he found the sound better.

Then to SUPRA DAC, he found the sound better again.

 

It is very simple to ABX.

 

Corman please share your next findings !!

 

 

 

Great to hear that it made the same SQ impact in your setup as it did in mine!? 

I actually get a feeling that it will continue to improve for each DC cable I will change out to this one. 

The interesting thing is that it is not a starquad nor a JSSG. The idea was to make a really quick cable in a balanced type of way where the drain loop (and semi-conductive nylon sleeve) couples with -Ve and +Ve and cancel out the noise. It seems to work! ?

 

I have a couple of other ideas as well. I will share them as soon as I have tried them out IRL. Even if they turn out bad! ?

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

I agree that DC cable inductance is measurable and that whether that is a physical correlate of soundstage is potentially testable.My problem lies with people that skip the testable part of the hypothesis, confusing premises based in physical facts with conclusions.

 

 

That has nothing to do with your claims that people are employing "reductionist physicalism"

 

I have never seen any scientist make such a claim.  What I have seen - repeatedly - in some of the better research universities as well as other places is that " our artists" or [liberal arts majors] are innumerate and devoid of an understanding of science after a 4 year investment of a good fraction of a million dollars.  An understanding of science is necessary for every citizen in an advance technologically based democracy, and we are seeing the sad results of that problem play out in the political arena.

 

 

You may be able to Gloggle up some info on "Emergent Properties" to counter your strawman.

[AnotherSpin]

After one day of extensive listening I am ready to report some results of trying Supra DAC cable between default PSU and Uptone regen. One meter cable was cut into two 50 cm lengths and organized according to Cornan's idea, one cut for each + and -, and CDL (Cornan drain loop) implemented as well. Supra CAT 7 was used previously in the same position with very good results, but this new design is something from another world. I could try to depict sonic differences, but the difference is much beyond that only. The involvement into musical experience increased dramatically. I can not stop listening. Yesterday night I had a feeling footsteps of soloists in Knappertsbusch live recording of Wagner's Parsifal (1962) were not on a stage only, but somewhere here. The audience coughing was present with the same spooky realism. The Brodmann's fortepiano never sounded so special on Andras Schiff's Schubert ECM recording before. I also tried to listen some recordings which I dismissed earlier as not "mine", and again, could not stop listen. Too good. Supra magic unfolds!

[Cornan]

17 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

After one day of extensive listening I am ready to report some results of trying Supra DAC cable between default PSU and Uptone regen. One meter cable was cut into two 50 cm lengths and organized according to Cornan's idea, one cut for each + and -, and CDL (Cornan drain loop) implemented as well. Supra CAT 7 was used previously in the same position with very good results, but this new design is something from another world. I could try to depict sonic differences, but the difference is much beyond that only. The involvement into musical experience increased dramatically. I can not stop listening. Yesterday night I had a feeling footsteps of soloists in Knappertsbusch live recording of Wagner's Parsifal (1962) were not on a stage only, but somewhere here. The audience coughing was present with the same spooky realism. The Brodmann's fortepiano never sounded so special on Andras Schiff's Schubert ECM recording before. I also tried to listen some recordings which I dismissed earlier as not "mine", and again, could not stop listen. Too good. Supra magic unfolds!

 

Nice! Thanks for sharing your impressions! ? I get that super real experiences on some recordings as well with the dual Supra DAC cable. A really nice I’m there feeling to it all! ?

My next experiment will actually be with dual coaxial cables with the center core of each cable to -Ve and +Ve and the shield mesh sorruounding the cables connected to each other in a loop that surrounds the -Ve and +Ve. This will still not be a JSSG since it is lacking an insulated drain wire. It will also have solid cables instead of stranded. I hope to get this done quite soon and report back how it turns out! 

[tims]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Nice! Thanks for sharing your impressions! ? I get that super real experiences on some recordings as well with the dual Supra DAC cable. A really nice I’m there feeling to it all! ?

My next experiment will actually be with dual coaxial cables with the center core of each cable to -Ve and +Ve and the shield mesh sorruounding the cables connected to each other in a loop that surrounds the -Ve and +Ve. This will still not be a JSSG since it is lacking an insulated drain wire. It will also have solid cables instead of stranded. I hope to get this done quite soon and report back how it turns out! 

Hi

Not sure, but have you tried any of the POE adaptor/cat7,8 cables (Ugreen etc) that started this topic? 

If so, your Supra DAC cable surpasses POE for you?

[Cornan]

18 minutes ago, tims said:

Hi

Not sure, but have you tried any of the POE adaptor/cat7,8 cables (Ugreen etc) that started this topic? 

If so, your Supra DAC cable surpasses POE for you?

 

I have’nt tried the PoE adapters but I did post my impressions of Supra Cat 8 with JSSG earlier on this thread. The Supra BiLine MKII with JSSG was better than the Supra Cat 8 but the dual Supra DAC with a full drain loop was the clear winner. Just much better in all respects.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

7 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

I agree that DC cable inductance is measurable and that whether that is a physical correlate of soundstage is potentially testable.My problem lies with people that skip the testable part of the hypothesis, confusing premises based in physical facts with conclusions.

Read more  

 

 

That has nothing to do with your claims that people are employing "reductionist physicalism"

 

I disagree.

 

 

 

Quote

I have never seen any scientist make such a claim. 

 

 

You mean when I say ("claim") that an hypothesis should be tested - not jumping to conclusions based on observational data - or discuss reductionist physicalism and reasoning and its implications - or in the fuller context of my previous posts the the role of imagination vs knowledge? For the record and as I have already said I do not have a problem with reductionist physics or physicalism or the knowledge of the physical properties per se provided that when they are the basis of some conclusion or theory,  the latter is tested. It is when people assume hypothesis is fact based on compelling physical properties is where it goes pear shape especially when trying to explain perceptual or psychological phenomena.That is anti-scientific and where the leap of faith occurs. To be clear (er) I do not make any "claim" against measurements, just in how they may be interpreted. You can continue with your faith based opinions.

 

Quote

 

What I have seen - repeatedly - in some of the better research universities as well as other places is that " our artists" or [liberal arts majors] are innumerate and devoid of an understanding of science after a 4 year investment of a good fraction of a million dollars.  An understanding of science is necessary for every citizen in an advance technologically based democracy, and we are seeing the sad results of that problem play out in the political arena.

 

You conflate your personal, sociological and political opinions about what you think you have seen with how science should work. Your argument against the liberal arts is a strawman.

 

Quote

 

You may be able to Gloggle up some info on "Emergent Properties" to counter your strawman

 

You can google whatever you like but I will leave it you to show how it is relevant to the discussion of interpretation of physical properties or testing hypotheses or counters anything, let alone "strawman".

[flkin]

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I have’nt tried the PoE adapters but I did post my impressions of Supra Cat 8 with JSSG earlier on this thread. The Supra BiLine MKII with JSSG was better than the Supra Cat 8 but the dual Supra DAC with a full drain loop was the clear winner. Just much better in all respects.

 

Conan, if you have a chance please try the PoE but connect both ends of the PoE unused ethernet heads together to form a pseudo-JSSG loop. 

 

I did this with a female/female ethernet connector and a spare ethernet cable on both ends of the PoE and had good results. I'm interested in how this might compare with your recent cable findings. 

 

There are also options to this idea on trying with a double PoE and connecting the unused ethernet heads of each PoE making a double pseudo-JSSG loop the drain of each PoE thereby going in the opposite direction of the signal which should be good. 

 

At the top and bottom of this double PoE there will be two DC heads that can be jointed together or simply discard one side. Variations of this makes Y cables options pretty easy too.

 

 

[AnotherSpin]

6 hours ago, tims said:

Hi

Not sure, but have you tried any of the POE adaptor/cat7,8 cables (Ugreen etc) that started this topic? 

If so, your Supra DAC cable surpasses POE for you?

 

To add to reply from Cornan - I used Supra Cat 7 (one month, direct connection without adapters) in the same place prior to Supra DAC. Supra CAT 7 was a clear improvement over default dc cable. Supra DAC stays as per now.

[paulkouhan]

I have may be one thing different in the Supra DAC DC Cable.

I have the drain loop cable connected to the ground on the LPS side ! (the earth ground not the V-)

 

Cornan, can you try it ? I think it is slightly better than just the loop.

 

I did not put any capacitor, is it an improvement ?

 

 

[Cornan]

5 minutes ago, paulkouhan said:

I have may be one thing different in the Supra DAC DC Cable.

I have the drain loop cable connected to the ground on the LPS side ! (the earth ground not the V-)

 

Cornan, can you try it ? I think it is slightly better than just the loop.

 

 

 

That’s tricky for me unfortunately since my system is pretty much floating to begin with (using floating balanced LPSUs). In my case I’m better off not connecting it to the ground. If connecting one end of the drain loop to ground helps I wonder? Do you use JSGT on your LPSU by any chance? Is it powering any network devices?

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, flkin said:

 

Conan, if you have a chance please try the PoE but connect both ends of the PoE unused ethernet heads together to form a pseudo-JSSG loop. 

 

I did this with a female/female ethernet connector and a spare ethernet cable on both ends of the PoE and had good results. I'm interested in how this might compare with your recent cable findings. 

 

There are also options to this idea on trying with a double PoE and connecting the unused ethernet heads of each PoE making a double pseudo-JSSG loop the drain of each PoE thereby going in the opposite direction of the signal which should be good. 

 

At the top and bottom of this double PoE there will be two DC heads that can be jointed together or simply discard one side. Variations of this makes Y cables options pretty easy too.

 

 

 

Since the PoE adapter simply extract the DC signal from a ethernet cable I cannot see any reason that it will make a difference on its own? It is a good way to quickly try different ethernet cables impact on SQ though. Unfortunately it is not enough intriguing to get me going.

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, paulkouhan said:

I did not put any capacitor, is it an improvement ?

 

Yes, the Kemet A750 (alu polymer) is a great umprovement for pocket money. Certainly worth a try at the output of LT3045s. They can improve elsewhere as well. I also use Panasonic FC type A (alu electrolytic) on the output of my DC feeder supplies with good result. Seems to be a good kombo with the Kemet's, but I will continue to try other brands as well.

[paulkouhan]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

That’s tricky for me unfortunately since my system is pretty much floating to begin with (using floating balanced LPSUs). In my case I’m better off not connecting it to the ground. If connecting one end of the drain loop to ground helps I wonder? Do you use JSGT on your LPSU by any chance? Is it powering any network devices?

Sorry I do not know what is jsgt..

You can pick the earth on any Ac plug and bring a wire to the shielding ?