ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[marce]

6 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Well the Copper Clad Steel (CCS) wire is easy. It's a poor choice for anything much below 100MHz.

But then we get to the 'ground plane modulation' part, I too await an explanation.

copper clad steel co-ax is generally used where you need to pull the cable and are carrying a HF signal such as cable TV.

 

[marce]

15 hours ago, Cornan said:

Watching this https://terpconnect.umd.edu/~wbreslyn/magnets/index.html I in combination with my own experiences with DC cables I wonder if the force of the eddy currents could possibly define the different audioble frequencies heard with different wire materials?As seen on this website copper makes a magnet fall slow. Could the slow movement of electrons define bass and low end midrange while a faster movement of electrons defines (for example silver) high midrange and treble? Just a thought. What is your opinion @marce, @jabbr and @sandyk?

 

If this is plausible I will surely continue to try pure silver on +Ve and pure copper with copper shield (JSSG) on -Ve. It would surely open a lot of doors for experiments.

Drift Velocity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity

http://resources.schoolscience.co.uk/cda/16plus/copelech2pg3.html

 

[Cornan]

Happy Midsummer! ?

 

 

[Speedskater]

16 hours ago, marce said:

copper clad steel co-ax is generally used where you need to pull the cable and are carrying a HF signal such as cable TV.

Yep, also the coax shield is optimized for those high TV frequencies, the CCS works well with 'F' connectors and it's cheap. The last reasons why the cable TV people use so much of it.

[bit01]

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:20 PM, Speedskater said:

Well the Copper Clad Steel (CCS) wire is easy. It's a poor choice for anything much below 100MHz.

But then we get to the 'ground plane modulation' part, I too await an explanation.

Well- you want to minimize the voltage drop (IR) in the return wire. In the general case where the supplied component does not have its own ps/regulators,  the 'load' voltage will be directly reduced by the fluctuating IR in the return (and supply) cable-no? 

[sandyk]

30 minutes ago, bit01 said:

Well- you want to minimize the voltage drop (IR) in the return wire. In the general case where the supplied component does not have its own ps/regulators,  the 'load' voltage will be directly reduced by the fluctuating IR in the return (and supply) cable-no? 

   with a typical short cable for DC power , the difference between a copper clad steel RG6 cable and a straight copper RG6 cable will be almost impossible to measure with normal DMMs, and even with quite large fluctuating currents, any effects of the differences between them will be negligible, whether at audio frequencies or even UHF frequencies.

[AnotherSpin]

On 6/22/2018 at 12:16 AM, Cornan said:

 

In my mind it is the shield between the wires that make the change. There is no better shield than

air and distance between the wires around. Period! ?

 

Did you have an idea to try the pair of the same cable for both + and - with different length of the same cable? From Fibonacci sequence, like 21 and 34? ?

[bit01]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

   with a typical short cable for DC power , the difference between a copper clad steel RG6 cable and a straight copper RG6 cable will be almost impossible to measure with normal DMMs, and even with quite large fluctuating currents, any effects of the differences between them will be negligible, whether at audio frequencies or even UHF frequencies.

mis-communication perhaps, the original comment regarding the ground plane referred to the thickness of the copper wire not the difference between the conductor materials! 

edit- as for CCS or CCAl - my preference for Cu over those  in audio cables is only from my experience ! Please use whatever you fancy.

[Cornan]

42 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

Did you have an idea to try the pair of the same cable for both + and - with different length of the same cable? From Fibonacci sequence, like 21 and 34? ?

 

No I have’nt tried that yet. Might try it later on. Right now I want to listen for this cable for a little while before trying new versions. The dual Supra DAC was better in the treble area than my current cable so I am interested to try out a combination of the two to see what that comes to. Later.

[BigGuy]

Please bear with me as I try to better understand the JSSG(360).

 

I DO understand that a Faraday cage is a 6-sided box or otherwise fully enclosed volume, e.g., cylinder with ends, that does not need to be grounded to be functional.

 

When I queried JohnS about the JSSG(360) being a quasi Faraday cage, he politely indicated yes but I surmise that would be true only if the shield extended a very long  (infinite?) distance from either end of the shield.  I know JohnS also said that the insulated wire or second shield with insulator provide a path for electrons to move within the shield.

I would propose that the JSSG360 does comprise a Faraday shield (thinking of it as thermos bottle of sorts) but that what is "protected" is the insulating material between them.

Would there be value to having a pigtail attached to the shield(s) whose other end is connected to GND pin of an AC plug and subsequently plugged into a grounded outlet?

 

I have EB Fowler's research paper on "Superscreened Cables" and while the discussion of impedance is way over my head, in all cases the screens are attached to the plugs.  Like other papers on shielding, he does conclude that a construction comprised of 2 braided shields with muMetal foil between them and no insulator layer other than that on the conductors themselves performs the best at all frequencies.  A construction of 3 copper braids with 2 layers of muMetal foil is even better.  He also concludes that the connectors themselves also need to be shielded.

 

I am a SOBjectivist by nature...I believe in my ears and respect the ears of those who post hear/here BUT not having an explanation that somewhat assuages my engineering (Chemical) background makes me cry!  ? 

 

I am planning to post treat a double headed USB cable and scratch build a shielded DC cable with quadcore at a minimum and something like the Gotham at the the other end of the spectrum.  I am hoping to use "best practices" rather than doing extensive experimentation as others have undertaken.

[mansr]

31 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

Please bear with me as I try to better understand the JSSG(360).

 

I DO understand that a Faraday cage is a 6-sided box or otherwise fully enclosed volume, e.g., cylinder with ends, that does not need to be grounded to be functional.

 

When I queried JohnS about the JSSG(360) being a quasi Faraday cage, he politely indicated yes but I surmise that would be true only if the shield extended a very long  (infinite?) distance from either end of the shield.

A Faraday cage can have holes as long as they are small compared to wavelengths one wants to keep out. Electromagnetic waves of 1 GHz have a wavelength of about 0.3 m. The holes at the ends of the shield tube are not a problem unless your cable is a foot in diameter.

 

31 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

I know JohnS also said that the insulated wire or second shield with insulator provide a path for electrons to move within the shield.

That part doesn't make any sense to me. Whatever an external field does in the lengthwise direction of the shield it will also do to a wire running alongside it. The wire may as well not be there.

 

31 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

I would propose that the JSSG360 does comprise a Faraday shield (thinking of it as thermos bottle of sorts) but that what is "protected" is the insulating material between them.

It does that too, not that it's good for anything.

[sandyk]

8 hours ago, bit01 said:

mis-communication perhaps, the original comment regarding the ground plane referred to the thickness of the copper wire not the difference between the conductor materials! 

edit- as for CCS or CCAl - my preference for Cu over those  in audio cables is only from my experience ! Please use whatever you fancy.

 

I am not in disagreement with you. My preference for Audio interconnects and PSU leads is for high purity copper .

[charlesphoto]

Here's the latest iteration of the Frankencable. Taking the advice that the Lt3045 should be as close as possible to the device (microRendu in this case), I've pretty much eliminated any "cable" after the lt3045, just going with a very short stud of solid 18g copper coaxial for -ve. Very short! And a  shorter run of the 24g solid silver wire for +ve. I've also JSSG'd the incoming piece of coaxial. 

 

As to sound: incredible bass response and separation of sounds. Tried a Supra Cat8 cable back in and it only lasted two minutes compared to this.Very dynamic - can be a bit overwhelming on some tracks at first. The performers feel more out in the room, and the air around instruments feels more present.Very toe tapping. 

 

Makes me wonder of course if I used better materials vs just what I had on hand how much better the sound could get. Way too many variables involved, but I think key is the separation of wires entirely per Cornan's finding. Then it's up to type (copper vs silver or silver plated, solid vs stranded), shielding or not, and length, and quality of materials.  But for now this is doing it for me. Got some Kemet caps on the way to see what those do.

 

 

[sandyk]

17 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Here's the latest iteration of the Frankencable. Taking the advice that the Lt3045 should be as close as possible to the device (microRendu in this case), I've pretty much eliminated any "cable" after the lt3045, just going with a very short stud of solid 18g copper coaxial for -ve. Very short! And a  shorter run of the 24g solid silver wire for +ve. I've also JSSG'd the incoming piece of coaxial. 

 

Incidentally, for a more tonally balanced sound, the LT3045s should be preceded by much larger capacitance values, such as normally used immediately after the rectifier diodes of the PSU. It is not designed to be used in isolation, but as part of the overall system.

 Without the much higher capacitance values effectively across it's D.C. Input, you may lose some natural mid range warmth.

 If you were using a low noise battery directly, or close to it's input , that would be a different matter.

 

Regards

Alex

[charlesphoto]

17 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Incidentally, for a more tonally balanced sound, the LT3045s should be preceded by much larger capacitance values, such as normally used immediately after the rectifier diodes of the PSU. It is not designed to be used in isolation, but as part of the overall system.

 Without the much higher capacitance values effectively across it's D.C. Input, you may lose some natural mid range warmth.

 If you were using a low noise battery directly, or close to it's input , that would be a different matter.

 

Regards

Alex

 

What would you recommend cap wise for the input? I would say it is slightly lacking on the mid-range. Couldn't really put my finger on it until now. 

[sandyk]

16 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

What would you recommend cap wise for the input? I would say it is slightly lacking on the mid-range. Couldn't really put my finger on it until now. 

 

Try something like a 1,000uF  to 2,200uF electrolytic capacitor of suitable voltage ratings in parallel with it's input.

If you require a little more warmth, try something like Elna Silmic, or the cheaper " Elna for Audio"  available on ebay.

 

 A funny thing, is that in the Data and Application Notes posted by Jabbr ,( I already had a copy) there is no mention of it's use for Audio

applications.

[jabbr]

15 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Try something like a 1,000uF  to 2,200uF electrolytic capacitor of suitable voltage ratings in parallel with it's input.

If you require a little more warmth, try something like Elna Silmic, or the cheaper " Elna for Audio"  available on ebay.

 

 A funny thing, is that in the Data and Application Notes posted by Jabbr ,( I already had a copy) there is no mention of it's use for Audio

applications.

 

Thats the datasheet I posted. It does say that increasing the output capacitance above 10 uF will decrease the terrific bandwidth of the LT3045. also increasing the input capacitance will prolong startup. The data sheet discussed recommended capacitances. 

[sandyk]

28 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Thats the datasheet I posted. It does say that increasing the output capacitance above 10 uF will decrease the terrific bandwidth of the LT3045. also increasing the input capacitance will prolong startup. The data sheet discussed recommended capacitances. 

 

Yes. I already had a copy of that Data Sheet.

It was apparently not designed for Audio use , or they would have given additional recommendations such as I have posted.

 When used with a typical Audio device which will almost certainly have internal bypass capacitors, it's bandwidth will be markedly decreased as you have pointed out.

I am now actually using a 3.3V LM78XX type version of the LT3045 with slightly improved results in the Input PCB of my DIY DAC over the original 3.3V Paul Hynes series regulator.

[AnotherSpin]

As I am quite happy with Supra DAC double cable connection between PSU and regen I did it permanent. Very short, about 20 cm, soldered to Mean Well PSU directly. Clear improvement of the sound after connection shortened and soldered directly instead of attached to the 1cm piece of previous cable from MW.

 

 

[Cornan]

17 hours ago, BigGuy said:

I would propose that the JSSG360 does comprise a Faraday shield (thinking of it as thermos bottle of sorts) but that what is "protected" is the insulating material between them.

 

Reading about thermos bottles I found this part quite interesting:

https://futurism.com/physics-thermos-heat-transfer/

 

Quote

Every object radiates heat to some degree (depending on how hot the object is). A hot liquid in the inside bottle will still radiate heat, or the outside bottle will still radiate heat toward the liquid inside the bottle. To minimize this, the surface is coated with silver. Silver prevents electromagnetic waves from passing, thus it keeps the radiation at bay (this is the principle used in Faraday cages).

 

?

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, AnotherSpin said:

As I am quite happy with Supra DAC double cable connection between PSU and regen I did it permanent. Very short, about 20 cm, soldered to Mean Well PSU directly. Clear improvement of the sound after connection shortened and soldered directly instead of attached to the 1cm piece of previous cable from MW.

 

 

 

Nice work! Looks great! ???

[Cornan]

7 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Here's the latest iteration of the Frankencable. Taking the advice that the Lt3045 should be as close as possible to the device (microRendu in this case), I've pretty much eliminated any "cable" after the lt3045, just going with a very short stud of solid 18g copper coaxial for -ve. Very short! And a  shorter run of the 24g solid silver wire for +ve. I've also JSSG'd the incoming piece of coaxial. 

 

As to sound: incredible bass response and separation of sounds. Tried a Supra Cat8 cable back in and it only lasted two minutes compared to this.Very dynamic - can be a bit overwhelming on some tracks at first. The performers feel more out in the room, and the air around instruments feels more present.Very toe tapping. 

 

Makes me wonder of course if I used better materials vs just what I had on hand how much better the sound could get. Way too many variables involved, but I think key is the separation of wires entirely per Cornan's finding. Then it's up to type (copper vs silver or silver plated, solid vs stranded), shielding or not, and length, and quality of materials.  But for now this is doing it for me. Got some Kemet caps on the way to see what those do.

 

 

 

Cool! ? I would be very interested in your impressions of the Kemet A750 (25v/560uF?) at the output of the LT3045. They are simple great in my setup.

[AnotherSpin]

5 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Nice work! Looks great! ???

 

It was your idea! Glad you confirm)

[Cornan]

Just to still my curiousity I decided to make this cable between LS-HPULNs abd Brooklyn DAC. Silver plated OCC copper wire with Acoustic Revive tripple CCC copper wire twisted around it. I also turned the LS-HPULNs around and put it on top of the balanced and floating 230-12VAC ps plus Brooklyn DAC to make the DC cable much shorter (~60% shorter).

 

 

Much better in the treble area. Still digging deep and the presence is truly great. Dynamics great. Music glow great. Crispy treble great. Midrange shines. Really happy with this cable! ???

[Ralf11]

the thermos bottle quote is a bit confused - not analogous to a Faraday cage really

 

and the silver (NASA used gold foil) is only really effective when convection has been greatly reduced (by the vacuum)