ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[Cornan]

@jabbr

Please try the Supra DAC as a dual DC cable. PM me and I will

send you a cable to you free of charge. I can even put it together for you if needed. I am just curious what you think about it?

[genjamon]

4 hours ago, marce said:

Oliver Heaviside

I found this interesting paragraph in Wikipedia on Heaviside:

 

Between 1880 and 1887, Heaviside developed the operational calculus using p for the differential operator, (which Boole^[10] had previously denoted by D), giving a method of solving differential equations by direct solution as algebraic equations. This later caused a great deal of controversy, owing to its lack of rigour. He famously said, "Mathematics is an experimental science, and definitions do not come first, but later on."^[11] On another occasion he asked somewhat more defensively, "Shall I refuse my dinner because I do not fully understand the process of digestion?"^[12]

[sandyk]

7 hours ago, marce said:

So provide some explanation of how a DC cable can have such an effect on the sound quality.... an effect that I would have to use a DSP to mimic.

 

7 hours ago, marce said:

So provide some explanation of how a DC cable can have such an effect on the sound quality.... an effect that I would have to use a DSP to mimic.

Marc

 Due to time differences, you will now have seen some reports and links from others to discussions in this area.

 BTW, are you set up to receive PMs ?

 I have sent you a couple recently with no response.

 

Alex

[sligolad]

6 hours ago, marce said:

funnily when I stopped trusting my ears my system improved....

Could not let this go...gave me a chuckle when i seen it ?

[fas42]

8 hours ago, genjamon said:

A good biking friend of mine is a laser physicist who works with very ultra fast lasers, and their ability to test the speed of these lasers and their other characteristics depends upon low noise sensors.  He laughs at me when I talk about the noise specs of our audio equipment, since in his carefully controlled lab environment he and his peers can't get anywhere close to 1uV noise threshold - he says the wiring picks up WAY more noise than that.  

 

What exactly is causing which effects - now that's a good question.  And many ideas have been posited on this thread.  We won't be able to do anything more than this silly game of trial and error unless someone with skill and tools actually properly tests systematically for the effects of geometry, shielding, dielectric, etc on rejection and/or filtration of electrical interference.

 

If you want to get audio replay working at the best levels, then you do have to worry about all this "silliness". The inconvenient truth is that the ear are quite excellent at picking up anomalies that are at the "edge of audibility", which are caused by lack of electrical 'cleanness' - and these shortcomings of integrity can be, yes, everywhere. The standard build of equipment gear is just not good enough, irrespective of cost - unless the designers spent their efforts on improving this integrity instead of adding bling, and exotic parts.

 

And, it makes all the difference between conventional stereo sound, and competent recreations of musical events, if one decides to sort all this out. The reasons, issues, problems are all very straighforward things, no mysteries, all well understood in activities where people absolutely need to get high resolution happening - it's just that people have great faith that sloppiness of implementation in audio doesn't matter, so long as some measurements look good - well, it just ain't so ... the fussier one is, the more the subjective SQ benefits.

[Ralf11]

Frank - would you tune his ultra fast laser for him please

[sandyk]

6 hours ago, lmitche said:

I've done it several times now. I have to drill out the metal plug sleeve to 9mm. Shrink wrap makes the finished product acceptable.

 Hi Larry

 For reliability reasons, I fitted 3pin Mini XLR plugs and sockets to the PSU and cable powering my USB Regen.

 I had to do virtually the same as you have done to take the thicker 7.5A mains cable offcuts.

 I kept having trouble with unreliable DC 5.5 x 2.1mm plugs and sockets .

 

Regards

Alex

[Speedskater]

10 hours ago, marce said:

So provide some explanation of how a DC cable can have such an effect on the sound quality.... an effect that I would have to use a DSP to mimic.

By having such a screwed-up system that just touching or changing anything, changes the sound.

[RamDawg]

28 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

By having such a screwed-up system that just touching or changing anything, changes the sound.

Troll

[fas42]

47 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

By having such a screwed-up system that just touching or changing anything, changes the sound.

 

No, not screwed up ... just much closer to optimum, which means every deviation from 'correctness' is more obvious ... if you have a window in the home which is generally dirty, and you're used to looking through it in that condition, varying the muckiness doesn't really change the experience - if then you go to some effort to make it truly clean then every last area which hasn't been truly wiped clean starts to really stand out - you can go nuts trying to extinguish the smallest bit of dirt that manages to resist your efforts to remove it!

 

This is the world of optimising audio ... the better it gets, the more precise work is required to 'clean' to the next level ... so, you have choices: accept a general OK'ness to the sound, be happy with that; or aim to get to ever finer degrees of apparent quality - I have never reached a point where more couldn't be retrieved from the recording; it's up to the individual.

[lmitche]

19 hours ago, genjamon said:

These LT3042/45 devices are so low noise that now the noise being picked up in the cabling connecting to the load is the dominant feature in the noise profile, thus making all of these cable changes quite audible. 

I suspect this is correct. Here is another data point.

 

My recently acquired lps1.2 replaced a lps1 used in my usb chain. In this position, the lps-1.2 feeds a y-cable to two chains of dual lt3045s (7 to 6 to 5 volts), where one output feeds an ISO Regen and the other feeds a vbus injector into an IFI black label.  The DAC can be started in two power modes, fed from it's internal battery or fed from vbus. Until the lps-1.2 arrived, the DAC always sounded better powered from it's battery. Now things have changed.

 

Fed from the vbus, imaging and sound stage has not changed, but the noise floor seems noticeably lower with a kind of shimmer, (almost like shade) around instruments gone. The result is a crystal clear point source of sound in a quieter sound stage.

 

While I am not sure I always like the vbus style sound, the difference is immediate and striking and for at least some material, especially classical, it is an improvement. Happily it is trivial to switch modes.

 

So I concur with Genjamons hypothesis that we are dealing with such low noise levels, that minor changes in shielding, cabling and regulation make an audible difference. It is as though we are approaching or have moved past some tipping point.

[Speedskater]

12 hours ago, RamDawg said:

Troll

Any product that is sensitive to the DC supply cord is a poorly designed product. Industrial audio Consultant Dick Pierce pointed that out two decades ago, about expensive hi-fi digital products that were sensitive to digital interconnect cables.

[Speedskater]

11 hours ago, fas42 said:

No, not screwed up ... just much closer to optimum, which means every deviation from 'correctness' is more obvious ..

Nope, you are writing about a product that has a poorly designed power supply.

[lmitche]

Come on guys, we are trying to have some fun here. We are bored with the same old arguments.

 

Leave us alone please.

 

Thanks,

 

Larry

[bit01]

1 hour ago, Speedskater said:

Any product that is sensitive to the DC supply cord is a poorly designed product. Industrial audio Consultant Dick Pierce pointed that out two decades ago, about expensive hi-fi digital products that were sensitive to digital interconnect cables.

Don't you think a product should be evaluated against its design goals? I am sure you can see/hear why an industrial power supply might have different ones from an audiophile product for a home environment. I sure do not want a military/industrial specification applied to any of my super sounding audio products -not only unnecessary but would add silly cost and likely sound worse- a self defeating exercise?

[sligolad]

2 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Any product that is sensitive to the DC supply cord is a poorly designed product. Industrial audio Consultant Dick Pierce pointed that out two decades ago, about expensive hi-fi digital products that were sensitive to digital interconnect cables.

And if a $10 piece of cable helps mitigate that then that is a win in my book....which is what the thread is about!

[jabbr]

2 hours ago, sligolad said:

And if a $10 piece of cable helps mitigate that then that is a win in my book....which is what the thread is about!

As long as the cables are $10 this is harmless. 

 

The concern is that audiophilia nervosa will result in $1000 dc power cables. 

[lmitche]

43 minutes ago, jabbr said:

As long as the cables are $10 this is harmless. 

 

The concern is that audiophilia nervosa will result in $1000 dc power cables. 

That's right, it's all about money and power.

[rah50]

Just noticed Ghent has added new wire to their portfolio of DC cables:

 

• 4S6G Canare 4S6G (OFC 4x20awg)
• 4S8 Canare 4S8 (4 x 16awg)
• DC-J01 Silver-Plated DC(JSSG)
• AudioQuest NRG-1.5 DC(JSSG)

No Cat7 or Cat8 yet

 

Just received my Supra and uGreen, but haven't tested yet.

•  

[jabbr]

5 hours ago, lmitche said:

That's right, it's all about money and power.

Not for me, I am personally concerned with understanding what affects audio quality/SQ, and when reasonable physical explanations are lacking, the fact that higher cortical function is a powerful modulator of sensation, remains.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

7 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Not for me, I am personally concerned with understanding what affects audio quality/SQ, and when reasonable physical explanations are lacking, the fact that higher cortical function is a powerful modulator of sensation, remains.

 

"when reasonable physical explanations are lacking, the fact that higher cortical function is a powerful modulator of sensation, remains."

I think we are dealing with two facts in that proposed scenario:

1) Physical explanations are lacking

2) cortical function is a powerful modulator of sensation

The conclusions drawn from those premises seem to be wildly different depending on one's belief system.

[RamDawg]

4 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Not for me, I am personally concerned with understanding what affects audio quality/SQ, and when reasonable physical explanations are lacking, the fact that higher cortical function is a powerful modulator of sensation, remains.

This troll has perched in our thread and aims to continue to make this his dumping ground.  He has had at least 1 offer to receive for free a DIY ethernet DC cable to try between his LPS 1.2 and ISO Regen (AC confirmed recent purchase).  Even the acceptance of such offer would diminish his troll cred for he is not receiving thread notifications because he is interested in our experiments.  Until he experiments himself and reports back 1st hand findings, his posts are irrelevant and complete ingorance. Please start your own thread dude. 

[RamDawg]

5 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

"when reasonable physical explanations are lacking, the fact that higher cortical function is a powerful modulator of sensation, remains."

I think we are dealing with two facts in that proposed scenario:

1) Physical explanations are lacking

2) cortical function is a powerful modulator of sensation

The conclusions drawn from those premises seem to be wildly different depending on one's belief system.

Troll

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

15 minutes ago, RamDawg said:

Troll

 

Funny, I didn't even make my stance known, merely pointed out there are different perspectives possible.

 

Edit- Oh, I get it now, I just browsed up through the thread, everybody is a troll for you if they disagree with you, even if you misconstrue what they are saying.

[fas42]

11 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Nope, you are writing about a product that has a poorly designed power supply.

 

A very high percentage of power amplifiers have poor power supplies - this is why the sound deteriorates when higher sound levels are asked for. All sorts of solutions are possible; the 'easiest' one is is to to have multiple amps, one for each driver - the supplies are no better, but the load is divided.