MQA Shill Steve Stone Provides a Good Laugh For a Friday...

[botrytis]

9 hours ago, wdw said:

ROON has finally released their Version 1.5 which offers the first unfold to MQA.  Think my system is somewhat discreet...dedicated line to a power groomer, then to mono-blocks, wired with Nordost to Magico Q3’s in a dedicated room.

Took a very familiar album...likely the first that came up in the ROON/TIDAL Masters list that I felt confident to make comparison as I have same album in the library;

“Looking For The Heart of Saturday Night” by Tom Waits.  IMHO, his best.  

After that album he was, to my ears, a mimic of a  street lamp drunkard,  betraying his extraordinary talent for jazz...again IMHO.

Nevertheless, with some careful attention to the A/B, and trying to compensate for the obvious volume boost to the MQA file, I thought I heard the elusive “temporal blurring” although it was neither apparent nor easy to hear.  

I am reminded of Jonesey, the signal man, headphones on, in the Hunt for Red October trying to identify the sonic signature of the elusive catapillar drive used by the the Soviets....”...wait a minute....wait...Ok, maybe I’ve got it....”

Nevertheless, nothing worth all this fuss.  

Perhaps this is why they, MQA, never allowed us, the unwashed, to share in the listening comparisons even if we made concerted effort to find out, as was my experience, shared by many, when at audio shows and asking them to play comparison tracks.  

This was always denied.

The whole thing is stinky.

No respect for the belligerent AS Quinty and Austin, the surly arrogant Brit, am sorely concerned with the same tone of the Audiophile media.  

Why are they just a Greek chorus for this very modest change to the musical signal when it is a wholesome change to the ownership of music.

Useful idiots?  Why this high level of aggression, cooperation and obedience?

As always, ROON is completely cool for this new update.

 

Best

What is 'Temporal Blurring' any way? MQA described it but it was a nonsense description. Describe it so others will know what YOU mean.

 

You bought in to MQA hook, line, and sinker.

[daverich4]

34 minutes ago, botrytis said:

What is 'Temporal Blurring' any way? MQA described it but it was a nonsense description. Describe it so others will know what YOU mean.

 

You bought in to MQA hook, line, and sinker.

 

In your hurry to make sure that no post involving MQA went by without someone reminding us how shitty it is, you apparently stopped reading at the part you challenged. 

 

“Nevertheless, nothing worth all this fuss”

 

By the way, you neglected to call him a “shill”. In case you weren’t aware of it, that’s required in every MQA post on CA. 

[mansr]

2 hours ago, botrytis said:

What is 'Temporal Blurring' any way? MQA described it but it was a nonsense description.

It's not a real thing, so no other kind of description is possible.

[ChrisG]

5 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Problem solved.

Nope, MQA still shows up as default when you view titles on Tidal. I've asked for them to give us the option of Redbook or MQA as default on the Roon forum, so if you'd like the same, please like my post

[crenca]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

...Not sure why it is a big deal other than that you are very annoyed by anything MQA. Don't add MQA versions to your library and you won't have them appearing as the default.

 

It's extra clicks, a step back in UI elegance and usefulness.  I was wrong, it's a minimum of 3 extra clicks.  If the "AAC" version or any other besides what I pay Tidal to deliver was automagically the default in Roon's eyes it would be the same, but your correct in the MQA is a special annoyance .  I never added MQA versions to my library but there they are, because of the default "sorting" decision of Roon to privilege a lossy voodoo codec like MQA over REAL PCM.  Sure, I can fix all this but how many clicks is that???   I did not pay Roon for JRiver complexity!!

 

Heck, the Tidal desktop app is now the rival of Roon as far as browsing goes now....

 

edit:  I will have to give it a bit more time and thought, but I think I will be probably be downgrading Roon from an almost unreserved recommend to a neutral.  Roon's strength is it's strong UI experience.  I like the ease of it's DSP, but the fact is it's functionality is nothing I don't already do with JRiver and plugins.  Factor in the cost of Roon, and it is a bit less compelling than it was the day before yesterday...

[crenca]

1 hour ago, ChrisG said:

Nope, MQA still shows up as default when you view titles on Tidal. I've asked for them to give us the option of Redbook or MQA as default on the Roon forum, so if you'd like the same, please like my post

 

Done

[firedog]

50 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

It's extra clicks, a step back in UI elegance and usefulness.  I was wrong, it's a minimum of 3 extra clicks.  If the "AAC" version or any other besides what I pay Tidal to deliver was automagically the default in Roon's eyes it would be the same, but your correct in the MQA is a special annoyance .  I never added MQA versions to my library but there they are, because of the default "sorting" decision of Roon to privilege a lossy voodoo codec like MQA over REAL PCM.  Sure, I can fix all this but how many clicks is that???   I did not pay Roon for JRiver complexity!!

 

Heck, the Tidal desktop app is now the rival of Roon as far as browsing goes now....

 

edit:  I will have to give it a bit more time and thought, but I think I will be probably be downgrading Roon from an almost unreserved recommend to a neutral.  Roon's strength is it's strong UI experience.  I like the ease of it's DSP, but the fact is it's functionality is nothing I don't already do with JRiver and plugins.  Factor in the cost of Roon, and it is a bit less compelling than it was the day before yesterday...

I still don’t understand the big gripe. I just added 24\192 MQA files to my library. The non-MQA 24\192 version still shows up as the primary when I group the versions. In another case, I looked for a CSN album that I have in high res and CD. I have the CD defined as primary. In a search for that album, Roon now shows the CD as the primary, even though there is a high res MQA version - both before and after grouping. To me, Roon is behaving exactly as it did before, except that it now it recognizes MQA versions.

[crenca]

1 minute ago, firedog said:

I still don’t understand the big gripe. I just added 24\192 MQA files to my library. The non-MQA 24\192 version still shows up as the primary when I group the versions. In another case, I looked for a CSN album that I have in high res and CD. I have the CD defined as primary. In a search for that album, Roon now shows the CD as the primary, both before and after grouping. To me, Roon is behaving exactly as it did before, except that it now it recognizes MQA versions.

 

In both of those cases you have a local file, and you are right the local file is sorted "primary" by default.  

 

I am talking about how Roon handles Tidal versions.  This is a primary use case for me, Roon+Tidal+artist/album browsing.  When I play my local files I am as likely to use JRiver as Roon, but yes Roon appears to sort your local file first (i.e. primary).  With my many (many many) Tidal bookmarks, it is sorting the MQA version first (if there is one) - I have to drill down to get to the PCM version.  Also, if I hear of an new artist, or an album from a familiar artist and I want to here it through Tidal, if there is a MQA version that is the version that comes up and you have to drill down to get to PCM version...

[firedog]

6 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

In both of those cases you have a local file, and you are right the local file is sorted "primary" by default.  

 

I am talking about how Roon handles Tidal versions.  This is a primary use case for me, Roon+Tidal+artist/album browsing.  When I play my local files I am as likely to use JRiver as Roon, but yes Roon appears to sort your local file first (i.e. primary).  With my many (many many) Tidal bookmarks, it is sorting the MQA version first (if there is one) - I have to drill down to get to the PCM version.  Also, if I hear of an new artist, or an album from a familiar artist and I want to here it through Tidal, if there is a MQA version that is the version that comes up and you have to drill down to get to PCM version...

Okay I understand now. But Roon is still doing what it always did-prioritizing higher res versions. The difference is that now it recognizes the MQA versions. I get that it bugs you, but at least you can see the MQA version labeled and ignore it. I ‘d just do what I always do-pick the one I want to define as primary. Doesn’t bother me. 

BTW, you can create focus groups based on “format” and exclude MQA files if that helps. Then bookmark the focus group that doesn’t include them. 

[crenca]

13 minutes ago, firedog said:

 

 

BTW, you can create focus groups based on “format” and exclude MQA files if that helps. Then bookmark the focus group that doesn’t include them. 

 

Can I create a focus group that includes ALL of Tidal so that no matter how I browse Tidal in Roon, say I type in an artist search, or perhaps I click "Tidal", then "genres", then "Jazz", such that MQA is excluded?

 

You would think Brian and the other's currently vigorously answering questions on the Roon forum (you have to give them credit for that) would have mentioned something like that already.

[crenca]

To change the direction of the conversation, check this post out from Roon's Chief Tech Officer:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-to-enable-passthrough-without-mqa-decoding/42335/9

 

To me, this is evidence that MQA is entirely too complicated for even geek/audiophiles to likely get "right" (an end user has to work hard to get the right "mental model"  ), and reveals to us how MQA does not really have a future.

[crenca]

Here is another from the "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." file:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-5-feedback-thread/42326/145

[JoeWhip]

Gee, how do you turn MQA entirely off so MQA can’t fuss with the data steam? Not a roon user but find the roon labs explanations very confusing.

[Thuaveta]

4 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

Gee, how do you turn MQA entirely off so MQA can’t fuss with the data steam? Not a roon user but find the roon labs explanations very confusing.

 

Settings => audio => click on the cog logo next to the zone name => device setup => show advanced (at the bottom) => toggle "enable MQA decoder" to "no". Totally doable. It also won't fuss with the data stream unless it's MQA.

[crenca]

1 minute ago, JoeWhip said:

Gee, how do you turn MQA entirely off so MQA can’t fuss with the data steam? Not a roon user but find the roon labs explanations very confusing.

 

Well, that is because you don't have the correct "mental model"...LOL! 

 

To turn of decode entirely (so that Roon won't make a decision itself as to how to handle MQA based on its sensing of your equipment) you go to Settings, Audio, choose your current DAC/device in list, click on gear icon to bring up device setup, click on the small print "SHOW ADVANCED" at the bottom of the dialog, scroll down, and change "Enable MQA Core Decoder" from default "yes" to "no".

 

Oh, and work your mental model while your at it...

[Dr Tone]

There should be a primary option in Roon to disable all things MQA.  Right under enable Squeezebox support.

 

When you disable MQA completely, you don't see it on Tidal, you don't have to fiddle with MQA settings on every device.  You go back to good old Roon before Bob dreamed up $MQA$.

[firedog]

You guys are making this way more complicated than it is. For the vast majority of Roon users, with or without an MQA DAC, Roon will "do the right thing"-i.e., do exactly what most listeners would expect and want - no special setup required. Do you not see that? 

You are "special needs" users so for YOU it is a bit complicated. It might take you one whole day to get used to it. 

Life is really tough.

[crenca]

Firedog,

 

According to many MQA is "just a choice" and no threat to PCM/DSD, non lossy real "HiRes", but here we have Roon privileging MQA, all supposedly (they say - you repeat) that it is what "most" users want.  "Most" users want to replace 16/44 with MQA?  Are you sure?  Perhaps so, by default in that "most" don't know better.

 

How long before it is no longer a complicated choice for "special" users - the PCM is just gone?

 

Turns out consumer choice is just lip, the idea is to herd us into a certain direction.

 

 

[beetlemania]

8 minutes ago, firedog said:

Roon will "do the right thing"

 

I'm new to Roon (<2 weeks) and nearly so to Tidal (<2 months). Help me be clear with what Roon is doing here. For Tidal MQA files, Roon does the first unfold for my non-MQA DAC? I don't have to do anything else? For non-MQA files, Roon does not apply MQA filters?

 

BTW, does Tidal even have hi-res content that is *not* MQA?

[firedog]

7 minutes ago, beetlemania said:

 

I'm new to Roon (<2 weeks) and nearly so to Tidal (<2 months). Help me be clear with what Roon is doing here. For Tidal MQA files, Roon does the first unfold for my non-MQA DAC? I don't have to do anything else? For non-MQA files, Roon does not apply MQA filters?

 

BTW, does Tidal even have hi-res content that is *not* MQA?

Basically yes, that is the default - unless your DAC can't do 88 or 96k. Or unless you manually change the settings in Roon for MQA.

In a situation like yours Roon will simply do the first unfold and pass the file "as unfolded" to your DAC. Your DAC will simply relate to it the same way it relates to any other 88 or 96k file.  

Roon in any case doesn't apply the MQA filters. That is either done in the MQA DAC, or not at all. 

If you click on the little "signal path" dot  to the right of the name of the selection being played in Roon, it will tell you what it is doing. 
AFAIK, Tidal doesn't yet have non MQA hi-res content. Maybe there are a few scattered tracks I'm unaware of.

[crenca]

5 minutes ago, beetlemania said:

 

BTW, does Tidal even have hi-res content that is *not* MQA?

 

Yes, 16/44 PCM....

 

No, MQA is *not* "HiRes" in the first place (HiRes is yet another term they re-redefine)

 

No, Tidal does not contain any real "HiRes" content of any kind (defined as 24/88.2 or >)

 

 

[beetlemania]

6 minutes ago, firedog said:

Your DAC will simply relate to it the same way it relates to any other 88 or 96k file.  

 

OK, thanks. I noticed that "96 kHz" MQA is interpreted as 48 kHz by my DAC. I just installed Roon 1.5 last night so will look again to see what is now displayed by my DAC.

 

BTW, I plan to switch to Qubuz if they offer true 24 bit PCM.

[JoeWhip]

Fortunately, I have no interest in either roon or MQA . 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, crenca said:

Firedog,

 

According to many MQA is "just a choice" and no threat to PCM/DSD, non lossy real "HiRes", but here we have Roon privileging MQA, all supposedly (they say - you repeat) that it is what "most" users want.  "Most" users want to replace 16/44 with MQA?  Are you sure?  Perhaps so, by default in that "most" don't know better.

 

How long before it is no longer a complicated choice for "special" users - the PCM is just gone?

 

Turns out consumer choice is just lip, the idea is to herd us into a certain direction.

 

 

No, that is not what I said or what Roon said, just an over reaction on your part. Roon isn’t “privileging” MQA, it is allowing it to be seen and played back as a format in Roon. No different than it allowing playback of DSD. Before this it was actually “discriminating” against MQA as it were by not letting us see or use the MQA files from within Roon.  

 

 Roon has a partnership with Tidal and Tidal is full of MQA albums. 

Roon rightly understands that most of it’s users would like the convenience  to see and playback the Tidal files from within Roon instead of using the Tidal desktop app. I’m not an MQA supporter, but I’d also like that ability. That doesn’t mean Roon or me or anyone else thinks we want to replace Redbook. Maybe just curiosity and to hear what the MQA versions sound like. 

Roon, unlike others, gives you the ability to totally turn off MQA. Maybe it’s hard for you to understand, but most users simply want their software to play back whatever formats are there, including MQA. That’s all Roon is doing. 

[botrytis]

11 hours ago, daverich4 said:

 

In your hurry to make sure that no post involving MQA went by without someone reminding us how shitty it is, you apparently stopped reading at the part you challenged. 

 

“Nevertheless, nothing worth all this fuss”

 

By the way, you neglected to call him a “shill”. In case you weren’t aware of it, that’s required in every MQA post on CA. 

I am actually interested in what he is calling 'Temporal Blurr'. I think it is important for discussion purposes.

 

I am not trying to be a shill, but it is obvious he read the all the MQA commercials.

 

I am trying to show a modicum of respect while being blunt and to the point.