Why!? Please Tell Me Why!

[marce]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Really?

LOL spell checker strikes and proof reader was asleep.

dielectric

[gmgraves]

16 hours ago, mansr said:

Have you ever tried sending signals into a dangling coax and watched how they bounce back from the open end?

They will, but in that case both sides of the cable are unterminated; both hot and ground. With quasi-balanced the circuit is complete because the two wires inside the shield are carrying hot and ground so the circuit is complete. That's a totally different thing than a dangling length of 2 conductor coax.

[Speedskater]

2 hours ago, marce said:

I disagree somewhat the, cable is not directional as such, the shield is connected at one end only, this will only work with a return wire so not much good for co-ax cables. A shield connected at one end only at RF frequencies is actually called an antenna (usually forms a dipole).

By 'shield' I meant. In an unbalanced or balanced interconnect a 2 conductor plus shield. (so the shield is only a shield)

Yes a shield needs to be attached to a chassis at the connector or it becomes an antenna.

[Ralf11]

the dialectical dielectrics !

 

Gummy - I said nothing incorrect - feel free to quote it if you think so

 

now, as to "orientation of crystal boundaries formed during the drawing / [annealing] process"...  I checked with a materials scientist (who informed me we are not allowed to call them metallurgists anymore) about this some time ago - there is a small effect that has been measured but it is of no interest for electrical transmission purposes

 

also, let's not confuse the speed of electricity thru any medium with the translational movement of electrons themselves

 

 Below is something that is taught in Sophomore physics classes - they are only 19...

[GUTB]

6 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

the dialectical dielectrics !

 

Gummy - I said nothing incorrect - feel free to quote it if you think so

 

now, as to "orientation of crystal boundaries formed during the drawing / [annealing] process"...  I checked with a materials scientist (who informed me we are not allowed to call them metallurgists anymore) about this some time ago - there is a small effect that has been measured but it is of no interest for electrical transmission purposes

 

also, let's not confuse the speed of electricity thru any medium with the translational movement of electrons themselves

 

 Below is something that is taught in Sophomore physics classes - they are only 19...

 

You said "no". 

 

I used used to think electrons just sort of vibrated or hovered in place — in fact they do move (slowly). I’m not trained in these topics, I’m just a neurotypical guy posting on the Internet.

 

A signal is a flow of electricity. There is a direction. Energy jumping across conductor crystal boundaries effects the electrical properties of the conductor. That’s not at all controversial.

[Solstice380]

Don’t tell anyone but there are actually electron holes.

 

If one is an EE stick with electronics, otherwise become a material science guy.

[Ralf11]

10 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

Don’t tell anyone but there are actually electron holes.

 

If one is an EE stick with electronics, otherwise become a material science guy.

 

oh yeh!!  well I have P-N JUNCTIONS in MY equipment !!!

 

take that!

[Ralf11]

48 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

You said "no". 

 

I used used to think electrons just sort of vibrated or hovered in place — in fact they do move (slowly). I’m not trained in these topics, I’m just a neurotypical guy posting on the Internet.

 

A signal is a flow of electricity. There is a direction. Energy jumping across conductor crystal boundaries effects the electrical properties of the conductor. That’s not at all controversial.

 

duh

 

 

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

 

I used used to think electrons just sort of vibrated or hovered in place — in fact they do move (slowly). I’m not trained in these topics, I’m just a neurotypical guy posting on the Internet.

 

What you are posting doesn’t make sense yet time and time again you post claiming that what you believe is considered “basic” or “well accepted” . 

 

Not sure what the repeated claims of “neurotypical”ity are about?

 

Quote

 

A signal is a flow of electricity. There is a direction. Energy jumping across conductor crystal boundaries effects the electrical properties of the conductor. That’s not at all controversial.

 

Here’s your problem : a signal is not just “a flow of electricity” 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal

 

Albeit the transmission of a signal may involve electrical current, there is no defined/fixed relationship between the direction of signal transmission and the direction of current flow.

 

What you are saying indeed is not controversial — it’s just plain wrong.

 

Now diodes affect current flow on a directional basis. It is trivial to construct a circuit which consists of diodes in parallel/series with resistors/capacitors and inductors. It is straightforward to measure the effects on electrical signals. Similarly if you have a cable which you claim to have these properties, you can demonstrate that the cable has similar effects on the same signals. Short of that you are repeating pseudo scientific sounding hogwash 

 

 

[Ralf11]

This might help:

http://www.dummies.com/education/science/science-electronics/electronics-basics-fundamentals-of-electricity/

 

But it will involve actual signal flow in the neuro-thingies which may not be typical for you.

 

You may also need to cross the Wheatstone Bridge to get where you want to go

[GUTB]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

What you are posting doesn’t make sense yet time and time again you post claiming that what you believe is considered “basic” or “well accepted” . 

 

Not sure what the repeated claims of “neurotypical”ity are about?

 

 

Here’s your problem : a signal is not just “a flow of electricity” 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal

 

Albeit the transmission of a signal may involve electrical current, there is no defined/fixed relationship between the direction of signal transmission and the direction of current flow.

 

What you are saying indeed is not controversial — it’s just plain wrong.

 

Now diodes affect current flow on a directional basis. It is trivial to construct a circuit which consists of diodes in parallel/series with resistors/capacitors and inductors. It is straightforward to measure the effects on electrical signals. Similarly if you have a cable which you claim to have these properties, you can demonstrate that the cable has similar effects on the same signals. Short of that you are repeating pseudo scientific sounding hogwash 

 

 

 

Neurotypical means the ability to communicate using context and cultural cues to allow generalizations to convey meaningful information. Pedantry is not neurotypical, unless used as a rhetorical device.

 

A neurotypical reading of "signal" would be "analogue audio signal over a wire" in this context. An audio signal is a flow of electricity. You’ve probably chosen to be deliberately obtuse over voltage transmission for the purpose of disagreeing with me.

[kumakuma]

7 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

Neurotypical means the ability to communicate using context and cultural cues to allow generalizations to convey meaningful information. Pedantry is not neurotypical, unless used as a rhetorical device.

 

A neurotypical reading of "signal" would be "analogue audio signal over a wire" in this context. An audio signal is a flow of electricity. You’ve probably chosen to be deliberately obtuse over voltage transmission for the purpose of disagreeing with me.

 

This isn't what "neurotypical" means.

 

It is a term used to refer to someone who is not autistic. Hence the following dictionary definitions of the word:

 

Quote

 

not affected with a developmental disorder and especially autism spectrum disorder : exhibiting or characteristic of typical neurological development  

neurotypical students

the neurotypical brain

 

Quote

 

Not displaying or characterized by autistic or other neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behaviour.

 

‘neurotypical individuals often assume that their experience of the world is either the only one or the only correct one’

 

 

[fas42]

11 hours ago, marce said:

Everything you said I believe regarding cable break in...

 

As always, there's a continuum of behaviour; at some level everything, including cables, alters some aspects of its behaviour, in measurable ways - depending upon everything. The debate is rather whether this is detectable by human hearing - those who are sensitive to these artifacts will register them; those whose beliefs make them determined that such can't be possible will make sure they can't hear them ... c'est la vie ...

[jabbr]

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

Neurotypical means the ability to communicate using context and cultural cues to allow generalizations to convey meaningful information. Pedantry is not neurotypical, unless used as a rhetorical device.

 

Based on your poor poor understanding of the difference between signal and flow of electricity, my confidence in your ability to define anything is zero. I’m not being pedantic rather factual. 

 

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

A neurotypical reading of "signal" would be "analogue audio signal over a wire" in this context.

Fine but signal could also be digital 

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

An audio signal is a flow of electricity.

 

No no no no no no no no.

 

Im not being obtuse, you simply don’t understand. 

 

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

You’ve probably chosen to be deliberately obtuse over voltage transmission for the purpose of disagreeing with me.

 

No, this is really basic. Really basic. Read Wikipedia or a textbook. Please. If you can’t understand why the direction of signal transmission is not the same as the direction of current flow, I’m afraid there’s no hope for you to understand electronics. 

 

How  can I state this more clearly?

[asdf1000]

Is GUTB a bot?

 

Like the one Microsoft created:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(bot)

 

Is this some social (media) experiment?

 

Genuine question ! lol

[Ralf11]

actually, I think jabbr hit on the crux of the bisquit - signal transmission vs. current flow; or information transmission vs. some "carrier"

 

I bet this is a pretty common misunderstanding, and not just in audio

[Nordkapp]

24 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Is GUTB a bot?

 

Like the one Microsoft created:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(bot)

 

Is this some social (media) experiment?

 

Genuine question ! lol

No. GUTB is good people. Misunderstood, but good people. 

[asdf1000]

1 minute ago, Nordkapp said:

No. GUTB is good people. Misunderstood, but good people. 

 

Ok cool. I was genuinely wondering, so had to ask the question. I can move on from my bot theory.

 

And I don't his intention is ever bad. Intentions are probably just misunderstood as you say.

 

[phosphorein]

29 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Is GUTB a bot?

 

Like the one Microsoft created:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(bot)

 

Is this some social (media) experiment?

 

Genuine question ! lol

 

I suspect he's a bored, lonely high school student and CA is his only interest. :-)

[gmgraves]

11 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

OH NO George, say it isn't so, sarcasm.

I'm shocked and appalled.  LOL

I'm afraid so!

[jabbr]

Beating this horse because as @Ralf11 suggests, I also suspect it illustrates a wider problem than @GUTB understanding of signal transmission, and apropos to this thread because pseudo scientific marketing is used to promote ridiculous audiophile products -- I mean if you want to spend $100,000 on cables because you like their appearance, then fine, but don't because you've been sucked in by marketing prose.

 

A "signal" is information. A signal is directional, information "moves" from one place to another. There is a source of information and a destination and the signal carries the information.

 

There is a field of "information theory" which deals with signals. Indeed the source of the signal expends energy in its transmission, and so in this sense there can be considered an "energy flow" or "entropy gradient" that goes from the source of the signal to the destination. This flow is not directly a flow of electricity, or electrons.

 

An "electrical signal" uses time varying voltages and currents to carry information. There is a difference: an electrical signal uses current flow, they aren't the same. Indeed in a balanced signal their is no net current flow because current in one direction is matched by the opposite current. Nonetheless the source expends energy and the signal is indeed directional.

 

Now of course there are crystalline, semiconductor, doping, junction and other physical properties that do indeed affect directional current flow in electrical circuits, and it is possible that a cable could incorporate such elements but these properties are eminently measurable -- the characteristic curve of any transistor, or diode etc. etc. and short of that some marketing speak which discusses cable directionality based on some special crystalline structure is designed to make to think the cable is "special". There are very good reasons to use balanced signal transmission and now we would need to carefully think about the implications of cable strand asymmetry on balanced cables ... hmmm haven't heard about that, why?

[mansr]

19 minutes ago, jabbr said:

An "electrical signal" uses time varying voltages and currents to carry information. There is a difference: an electrical signal uses current flow, they aren't the same. Indeed in a balanced signal their is no net current flow because current in one direction is matched by the opposite current. Nonetheless the source expends energy and the signal is indeed directional.

It should be noted that it need not be the source that expends energy. Imagine a pair of wires with a voltage source at one end and a switch at the other. By opening and closing the switch, a sender of information can cause current to flow or not. A receiver at the voltage source can monitor the current flow and thus decode the information. Here the receiver is the one expending energy by sending current through the loop.

[mordante]

On ‎17‎-‎4‎-‎2018 at 1:29 AM, Ralf11 said:

it's at least a year old

 

the purpose is to separate money from wallets

 

So you are an anti-capitalist?

[Sal1950]

33 minutes ago, mordante said:

 

So you are an anti-capitalist?

Not me, but there are laws against embezzlement. 

[mordante]

On ‎19‎-‎4‎-‎2018 at 5:02 AM, sandyk said:

Slap double the Sales Tax on items where the manufacturers' claims can't be verified, with the additional tax being automatically diverted to Health and Education ?  Not just for electronics either !

An exception could be made for things like new Pharmaceutical drugs etc.

 

So basically ever product ever made. Best looking, best tasting, fastest service, prettiest etc. Every subjective claim ever.

Better would be to remove religion and sports from education.