ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[BigAlMc]

6 hours ago, ted_b said:

The unit (and as I alluded to, I will include the USPCB here; haven't tried it with and without due to my newly reinvigorated "life's too short" mantra) is powered by their LPS-1 and drives a Kitsune-modded SU-1 (internal ps for now). 

 

Hi @ted_b

 

Sorry but I'm not following this. Do you mean that the IR is powered by an LPS-1 and the SU-1 is powered by something else? 

 

I'm intrigued because the difference you describe in my system I attribute to the SU-1 and then the IR adds a little more. But that's both you and Tboooe saying that the IR ahead of the SU-1 is adding a great deal - so I must be doing something wrong! 

 

Many Thanks, 

Alan 

[ted_b]

Alan,

the IR is being powered by an LPS-1 and the SU-1 is being powered by its own internal power supply (Tim's mod is to the internal power supply mainly). Both are plugged into a Topaz transformer as all my stuff is (except amps). 

 

I do have a Paul Hynes SR7EHD that is adjustable from about 9v to 19v.  Paul just sent me a new umbilical for my preamp but after trying it there i may dial it down to 9v and try it on the IR while then installing the dc kit on the SU1 for the LPS1.  Id hate to leave an expensive Hynes ps on the sidelines as i have for some time now.  

 

I own an a y cable Uptone recommended so i could also try the LPS1 for BOTH units but it seems the feedback is often less than stellar.

[BigAlMc]

Thanks Ted for the detailed reply.

 

I guess I need to try Tboooe's suggestion and listen to the system with the IR on a 5v battery supply and compare to the sound with the IR & SU-1 sharing a LPS-1 via a Y cable.

 

It's either that or I've not been listening closely enough as both you and Tboooe seem to be getting more of an impact from your IR's.

 

Regards,

Alan

[Guidof]

Within a couple of hours of the arrival of the ISO REGEN, a neighbor's huge tree fell onto our house. The damage was minimal, but it took out the electrical feed. We were without power for three days. Following this, workers descended on the house to replace some old windows, which required disassembling all audio equipment. But at last, I have had a few days to listen to the IR (fed by the LPS-1+Mean Well, see sig for chain) with a wide variety of recordings.

 

Here is what my notes say:

• Still greater clarity
• More defined imaging
• Easier to follow each instrument's line
• Greater continuousness
• More accurate timbres
• Tighter and fuller bass
• More air between instruments and voices
• Plays louder without distortion
• Richer musical information
• More engaging musical presentation

In the earlier stages of listening, the IR suffered from a few episodes of very faint clicks, which disappeared after about three hours of continuous operation and have not reappeared since.

 

Initially, I powered both IR and microRendu from the same LPS-1 (via an el cheapo Amazon Y cable), but found that powering each from its own supply sounds significantly better.

 

All in all, another winner from the John S/Alex C/Jesus R/ et al. group.

[tommytastic]

Has anyone tried one upstream of a weiss dac202 with a USB spdif converter (eg singxer f1/su1). Did it improve things? 

 

Or, if you have an F1/SU1 and dac with  both usb/spdif, would you say the IR had a greater or lesser effect than the F1/SU1?

 

Thanks 

[ElviaCaprice]

Received my ISO Regen today.  A quick preparation of cable Canare 4S6 about 6 inches long to run from one of my LPS-1's feeding my Chord 2Qute, series, 12V (waiting on PHynes SR7).   Used the 7V LPS-1.  Ordered the 90 degree adapter, very happy with it's length, allows my ISO Regen to sit about 1 3/4 inches from the 2Qute, perfect for keeping the RCA plugs free and clear, let alone the 90 degrees allows me to rest the ISO Regen on edge . 

    Right out of the box, it's a winner.  Added definition in sound, leveled the lows mids highs quite nicely.  Bonus, it helped bring my volume output much higher on my 2Qute amp for driving my new Omega 8XRS speakers.  Have more than enough volume now, near field or mid size room with less than 1 watt.

    No clicks here, perfect, I run a full USB stream from my Jetway NUC.  Has put my thoughts of adding any SoTM components, clocks or renderers to rest, not needed.  The ISO Regen is a no brainer for value and quality.

[rikirk]

I had promised Uptone I would post my thank you email and here I am. In the meantime, I loaned the IsoRegen and LPS1 to a good friend and although, it was just for a few days, I missed them very much and as soon as I had them back I could not disagree with any of my original impressions. This is an outstanding achievement, thanks again Alex!

 

(...)

In the last few months, since I could not find room for the 3.7i as I planned, I was willing to upgrade my 1.7i one way or the other. Today, I can say I am glad I did not.

 

The combination of the ISO Regen with the LPS1 is nothing less than extraordinary. As soon as the LPS1 got some gas from the HDPlex300 and ready to supply the microRendu I had a epiphany.

 

First, I immediately had to move the panels away from the relaxed 5 feet front wall to the "accurate" marks at 8 because of the substantial increase in low frequencies response, like one full octave down.

 

After the obvious well-known benchmarks "greatest audiophile vocal", "dark side" "breakfast in america" "pawnshop", etc. all dsd files upsampled to 256 via HQP under Win10 AO2.2 where I was able to dig in things I never heard before from these masters (not even at Axpona from much more $ than my modest MG), later at night I moved on with the Fischer/Mahler #4, which as you know, is a really tough recording due to all those little nuances than only a good set of headamp and cans can make them audible. Despite the Magnepan ribbon sound signature, soundstage, 3D, tonality all increased in such a perceivable way, I thought I was not listening to my system anymore. With zero burn-in.

 

I have to admit, being a previous Regen owner, when I ordered the combo meal from you I was skeptical that I would keep both and probably return the ISO simply because my old gigabyte MoBo is spooky quiet and I believe LH Labs did a good job when they designed the Vi DAC.

 

To put an end to my curb of enthusiasm and coming from high-end analogue (Oracle/SME/Lyra) I try to compare it with each part of a digital audio system in this way:

 

Turntable = DAC circuit and chassis design

Cartridge = USB jitter and current isolation

Tone arm = DAC chip

Pre-phono = Analogue output

 

Well, with the delivery of your combo, you just gifted me with the equivalent of the Etna from Lyra!!!

(...)

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, rikirk said:

Well, with the delivery of your combo, you just gifted me with the equivalent of the Etna from Lyra!!!

 

Many thanks to you--and to Guido just above--for taking the time to write your detailed impressions of the ISO REGEN/LPS-1 combo in your music system.

 

My Greek mythology is rusty, and while I thought that your "gifted me with ....the Etna from Lyra" was some reference I was not getting, a Google search showed you were just referring to a Lyra-brand phono cartridge model. Still, high praise indeed... 

[tne]

On 6/26/2017 at 3:45 AM, Guidof said:

Within a couple of hours of the arrival of the ISO REGEN, a neighbor's huge tree fell onto our house.

 

Wow, I never realized the ISO REGEN could have such an enormous effect

[Superdad]

27 minutes ago, tne said:

 

Wow, I never realized the ISO REGEN could have such an enormous effect

 

I guess it's earth shattering...  

[austinpop]

Audio existentialism.

 

If the tree falls, and no one hears it... they must be too busy listening to their ISO-Regen!

[Superdad]

FYI:

 

Just had 50 of our Oyaide/Belden shielded star-quad cables made with 5.5mm x 2.1mm plugs both ends--20 inches (50cm) long.  Price is $70.

 

These use the same tinned copper, 18awg x 4 Belden 9418 wire that we have been using for years to make the 5-foot DC cables we ship with our big JS-2 LPS.

 

In order to use this big wire (paired 18awg equals 15awg--verus paired 20awg which equals about 17awg), I had to convince Oyaide to put their original, large, long, with heavy strap plug version back into production--so they made 1,000 pieces just for us.  Here is a pic so you can see the difference in the plugs.  The new style--as used by everyone else--could never accept our big wire.

 

Does the 50% greater circular mils size of 18awg star-quad--and a little more than half the resistance--versus 20awg star-quad matter for low current devices such as the ISO REGEN and 1.1A UltraCap LPS-1?  Probably not. But it does for our big 5-7A JS-2, and it was easy to have the aerospace cable assembly firm I use (4pkc.com) add this model to my line.

 

I'll try to get a web page up for these (and 5-footers that always have 5.5mm x 2.5mm at one end and choice of 2.5 or 2.1 at the other) in the next week or so.  In the meantime, if you would like one, shoot me a message.  Postage in the USA is $3. Payment via PayPal preferred.  International postage will be quoted.

 

Sorry, no plans to make 'Y' cables, other lengths or other plug combinations at this time.

 

--Alex C.

 

[TomNC]

I've got my ISO Regen + LPS-1 from the 2nd batch amd have been very pleased with the marked improvement they have made for my system. The ISO alone sounds better than either the SU-1 interface alone or ISO + SU-1. Therefore I have sold the SU-1 (my DAC, Aqua La Scala Optologic, does not accept I2S from the SU-1 which may explain why I do not preceive additional benefit of the SU-1).

 

Now I wonder whether anybody has succeeded in using an iPhone/iPad as a digital source through a CCK lightning adaptor leading to the ISO and then a DAC. So far it does not work for me. However, it works well with my PC laptop as a source. 

 

If you have made it work with an iPhone/iPad and the ISO, please enlighten me how you did it. Thanks.

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, TomNC said:

Now I wonder whether anybody has succeeded in using an iPhone/iPad as a digital source through a CCK lightning adaptor leading to the ISO and then a DAC. So far it does not work for me. However, it works well with my PC laptop as a source. 

 

If you have made it work with an iPhone/iPad and the ISO, please enlighten me how you did it. Thanks.

 

I am heading out to diner now, but can briefly tell you that I have tested the ISO REGEN with my iPhone/iPad and Apple's Lightning>USB CCK.  Works great.

Maybe sent me a message about your set up and we'll see if we can puzzle it out.

--Alex.

[Tone Deaf]

2 hours ago, TomNC said:

Now I wonder whether anybody has succeeded in using an iPhone/iPad as a digital source through a CCK lightning adaptor leading to the ISO and then a DAC

 

If you have made it work with an iPhone/iPad and the ISO, please enlighten me how you did it. Thanks.

That is my regular work desktop setup.  No problems.  iPad mini -> CCK -> hard adapter -> ISO Regen -> hard adapter -> Solo -db.  I've also previously used the standard Regen with a similar setup into my QB-9.  Feel free to PM me also.

[Energy]

Glad to know that the ISO REGEN doesn't need a power cable that thick. 

 

To Alex: Did you say in your earlier posts that depending on what the ISO REGEN is powered by and how much it consumes, it can get hot? I heard a 2.0mm thermal pad is put in to negate this problem. Is it something a customer/consumer can do themselves or would you rather we send you back the unit?

 

I'm using an iPower 9V to power by ISO REGEN (will have another LPS-1 soon hopefully) and it's only connected to the Singxer SU-1 so doesn't run hot but I would still very much like to have this thermal feature. I can easily buy 2.0 thermal pads and conduct the procedure myself as I feel sending back a unit just for this is a little out of the way. I however just don't know where to put the pad and hearing you say it's a tight squeeze makes me more unsure. Thanks.

[jacquesr]

14 hours ago, TomNC said:

I've got my ISO Regen + LPS-1 from the 2nd batch amd have been very pleased with the marked improvement they have made for my system. The ISO alone sounds better than either the SU-1 interface alone or ISO + SU-1. Therefore I have sold the SU-1 (my DAC, Aqua La Scala Optologic, does not accept I2S from the SU-1 which may explain why I do not preceive additional benefit of the SU-1).

 

Now I wonder whether anybody has succeeded in using an iPhone/iPad as a digital source through a CCK lightning adaptor leading to the ISO and then a DAC. So far it does not work for me. However, it works well with my PC laptop as a source. 

 

If you have made it work with an iPhone/iPad and the ISO, please enlighten me how you did it. Thanks.

I have the same DAC... Very happy....

[rajacat]

15 hours ago, TomNC said:

I've got my ISO Regen + LPS-1 from the 2nd batch amd have been very pleased with the marked improvement they have made for my system. The ISO alone sounds better than either the SU-1 interface alone or ISO + SU-1. Therefore I have sold the SU-1 (my DAC, Aqua La Scala Optologic, does not accept I2S from the SU-1 which may explain why I do not preceive additional benefit of the SU-1).

 

Now I wonder whether anybody has succeeded in using an iPhone/iPad as a digital source through a CCK lightning adaptor leading to the ISO and then a DAC. So far it does not work for me. However, it works well with my PC laptop as a source. 

 

If you have made it work with an iPhone/iPad and the ISO, please enlighten me how you did it. Thanks.

Ah, that's very informative that the  ISO alone sounds better than either the SU-1 interface alone or ISO + SU-1. My DAC (MP-D2) doesn't accept I2S either. I was going to try the SU-1 but then started to follow the ISO discussion and subsequently ordered one. Maybe this will end the accumulation of add-on boxes. I plan to use the LP1 with the ISO and my Acopian 12V PS with the SOTM 200. The Acopian has very low jitter (0.25 mV RMS) and is very tightly regulated.
 

 

[TomNC]

17 minutes ago, rajacat said:

Ah, that's very informative that the  ISO alone sounds better than either the SU-1 interface alone or ISO + SU-1. My DAC (MP-D2) doesn't accept I2S either. I was going to try the SU-1 but then started to follow the ISO discussion and subsequently ordered one. Maybe this will end the accumulation of add-on boxes. I plan to use the LP1 with the ISO and my Acopian 12V PS with the SOTM 200. The Acopian has very low jitter (0.25 mV RMS) and is very tightly regulated.
 

 

To clarify, I think the USB interface in my Aqua DAC is pretty good and with the cleaner signal sent through the ISO, the performance is very pleasing. How well it may work with another DAC is really dependent on the USB implementation in that particular DAC. So the SU-1 or another USb interface might still be useful for a certain DAC. It seems to me that ISO remove noises or other contaminations but not alter the signal. In contrast, SU-1 seems to enhance the  

smoothness and density of the sound but smear the microdynamic details to some level which I do not like.

 

That said, I think it is a good idea to start with the ISO alone to see how much improvement you can perceive. 

[Superdad]

13 hours ago, Energy said:

To Alex: Did you say in your earlier posts that depending on what the ISO REGEN is powered by and how much it consumes, it can get hot? I heard a 2.0mm thermal pad is put in to negate this problem. Is it something a customer/consumer can do themselves or would you rather we send you back the unit?

 

Only if you DAC/DDC draws a lot of USB 5VBUS power (from the cable for its USB input) will the ISO REGEN (or the original USB REGEN) get really warm.  And yes, how warm is dependent upon the voltage of the supply one uses for the REGEN.  Higher voltage equals more drop to get to 5V regulation, times current drawn by the DAC, equals excess wattage to be dissipated as heat--through the ground plane of the board and to the case.  The math of it is discussed in the USB REGEN FAQ on our web site.

It is normal and not something to be worried about.  No matter how much heat you feel, all the parts are still running at less than half their rated thermal limits.

 

13 hours ago, Energy said:

I heard a 2.0mm thermal pad is put in to negate this problem. Is it something a customer/consumer can do themselves or would you rather we send you back the unit?

 

Some samples of the earlier Silanna isolator chips, when super-heated--by the ISO REGEN's 1-amp 5VBUS regulator being called upon to deliver close to 0.5A by say an iFi micro iDSD DAC/headphone amp--will throw a data error here and there.  Hence the dreaded tics or "crackles" experienced by some with earlier units.  Not a sound quality issue, just a few dropped bits.  You either have them or your don't.

 

Subsequently Silanna has been screening the parts for us to be more tolerate of what are referred to as "duty-cycle errors," so the problem has bee taken care of.  Still, I am a "belt and suspenders" sort of guy, so I tracked down some high-performance thermal pad material (spent hours pouring over data sheets and spent a few hundred $ having samples overnighted only to find some that would not compress enough to fit).  The idea is to conduct more heat to the case for those few people who both have heavy VBUS loads and maybe an isolator chip that is on the border when it come to heat.  It is effective (I ran tests with marginal units, the 460mA load of the iFi iDSD, and my protocol analyzer), but not a cure, and at this point possibly not even needed going forward.

 

@Energy I know your unit was from the very first batch.  But if you are not having any audible tics, them you have no need for the thermal pads.  (They do not do anything for longevity of the product, the heat is not that great.) And if you are having tics then thermal pads will not cure that and we will want to get you a new board.

So there is the long answer you question.

 

13 hours ago, Energy said:

I'm using an iPower 9V to power by ISO REGEN (will have another LPS-1 soon hopefully) and it's only connected to the Singxer SU-1 so doesn't run hot but I would still very much like to have this thermal feature. I can easily buy 2.0 thermal pads and conduct the procedure myself as I feel sending back a unit just for this is a little out of the way. I however just don't know where to put the pad and hearing you say it's a tight squeeze makes me more unsure.

 

The SU-1 draws only 100mA from the USB 5VBUS.  So the 4 volt drop to 5V from your 9V iPower generates only 0.4 watts of excess heat from the big TI regulator.  That's very little, as per all the above, not something to sweat (pardon the pun).

 

Please do not attempt to put just any old 2mm thermal material on the board--you would be likely to break something since to be effective the material has to be a very tight fit, which makes the procedure to get the USB 'A' jack in place without breaking it a bit of a pain.  (My assistant is really looking forward to the day when I tell her we can stop putting the pads on--because it really slows her down a lot!)

[tboooe]

12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

The SU-1 draws only 100mA from the USB 5VBUS.  So the 4 volt drop to 5V from your 9V iPower generates only 0.4 watts of excess heat from the big TI regulator.  That's very little, as per all the above, not something to sweat (pardon the pun).

 

I know this is all relative but I felt that my IR got pretty hot when powering with the 9V iPower.  It got hot enough that I got paranoid and stopped using it.  Even powering the IR with 5V, it gets warm to the touch.  I love my IR so much I dont want to risk damaging it!!  

[Superdad]

8 minutes ago, tboooe said:

I know this is all relative but I felt that my IR got pretty hot when powering with the 9V iPower.  It got hot enough that I got paranoid and stopped using it.  Even powering the IR with 5V, it gets warm to the touch.  I love my IR so much I dont want to risk damaging it!!  

 

Well we have stated our preference that folks stay in the labeled 6-8V range.  But still, even at 9V (unless you ask it to power a 0.5A DAC/HA) you are covered under our 3-year warranty.  So worry not.  Heat is a fact of linear regulators in small enclosures. Not something to worry about.

 

The original USB REGEN has the same 5VBUS reg and with close to 4,000 out there I can tell you that normal field failures of that model have never been linked to VBUS reg heat (some hub chips failed and made the other regulator get hot, but that's unrelated.)

[Superdad]

17 minutes ago, ted_b said:

And if you replaced it with going direct then the variables are many (ethernet and no ethernet, NAA and no NAA, dac driver local and Linux dac driver in NAA).

 

Yes Ted, it is true that many more variables would be involved.  But given the premise of the ISO REGEN--galvanic isolation, super-clocking, high signal integrity--and especially when used with an even further isolating LPS-1, I think @timtom question is a valid one and on a lot of people's minds.

 

That is, can a decent computer, direct to an ISO REGEN, match the performance of an computer>NAA>ISO REGEN>DAC chain? Yes, such is not a single-variable comparison. But in my limited experience I think there are pluses and minus to both.  

For example:

My tweaked Mac mini (powered by JS-2/MMK, booted from SD card slimed down to 70 processes OS X, with no drives or active SATA, and music fetched over Ethernet via direct connected--no switch--other Mac) into the ISO REGEN and running HQ Player Desktop is very much the equal to the microRendu (LPS-1) in NAA mode.

But then once I was able to bypass my Ethernet switch with bridging configuration--and then put the ISO REGEN with its better clock and hub chip after, it carried SQ a bit further (though not by a large amount).

 

Most people are looking for the best value proposition.  And not everyone is ready to configure their systems around the software/player modes required/supported by the various streamers.  So these questions come up.

 

 

[ted_b]

10 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Yes Ted, it is true that many more variables would be involved.  But given the premise of the ISO REGEN--galvanic isolation, super-clocking, high signal integrity--and especially when used with an even further isolating LPS-1, I think @timtom question is a valid one and on a lot of people's minds.

OK I will revisit this one more time, and explain my reaction. 

 

In my system I take full advantage of the "N" in NAA, and have my HQP server in a totally remote location in my home (for many reasons).  My NAAs (microRendu and Windows Server 2012R1 NAA) are local, connected via ethernet/fiber of course, to my main rig, with a short USB cable (someday all USPCB ) to my dac setup (SU-1, etc etc).  When Timtom asked if one could just remove a microRendu from the microrendu-IR-dac and report back, I responded that something like that is not possible (taken literally).  I explained then that something else (in my case it would be moving my powerful server to my music room) must take its place, and since that would require many variables it wouldn't be a simple comparison of microRendu vs no-microRendu.

 

That's all I meant.  I meant no disrespect, no flippancy, nothing except....."you need to replace the microrendu with something, such as going direct".

 

And yes, Alex, I can imagine that going direct and using the special magic that the IR (and LPS1) gives you would be a real option for many folks!  (Thumps up icon, if I had one).

[lmitche]

Running direct to DAC with Windows 10 AO here. Two USB chains, 1) single hard disk for boot and music along with nic on LPS-1 powered Adnaco fiber USB 3.0, and 2) ISO Regen on motherboard USB 2.0 to ISO Regen / lps-1/DAC.  Roon/ Hqplayer upsampling at dsd512 as well.  It's hard to imagine an NAA adding anything but trouble.