ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, thyname said:

I use a microRendu, then the ISO will be after the microRendu, then the Singxer SU-1, then the DAC.

The Singxer is powered by a separate LPS-1.

It sounds like I should just have the new LPS-1 powering just the ISO at 7 volts, and call it a day?

 

I have tested that exact set up here.  As Tommy--also with similar set up said--both 5V and 7V are fine.

[Barry in Calgary]

Hi Alex

 

i just received my ISO Regen.

 

Everything seems in order, no clicks or pops or lost connection.

 

I'm replacing a Curious cable to Intona to Sbooster vbus isolator to Nordost USB cable to Regen Amber (powered by Lps-1) to Curious link cable

 

with

 

Nordost USB cable to ISO Regen (Lps-1) to Curious link cable.

 

Right now, without break in, it sounds just as good as my previous configuration.  And believe me, my previous configuration was much better than just using the Nordost cable.  The Intona and USB vbus isolator made a huge difference. None of this was lost with the ISO Regen replacing the above and the original amber Regen.

 

Once I get a firm assessment of the difference/improvement, I'll get my Legos out, and I'll try out the new adapter you provided.

 

Regards

Barry in Calgary 

 

[thyname]

What is that on/off switch on USPCB A>B adapter and what does it do ?

[Speed Racer]

It's an on/off switch and it cuts the 5vdc USB VBUS power in the off position.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, thyname said:

What is that on/off switch on USPCB A>B adapter and what does it do ?

 

It turns off the 5V VBUS between the ISO REGEN and your DAC.  It really is an almost useless joke.  John often chides me for asking him to put it on the board.  Here is why I say that:

 

a) If your DAC does not use VBUS power, then you can switch it off.  But why?  It is not as if that 5VBUS is running down the length of a cable and capacitively coupling to the data lines (the reason why some people like those split- or data-only cables). If you DAC is not using the VBUS then it is ignoring the 5 volts on pin 1.

 

b) If your DAC requires VBUS power, either for "handshake"/recognition/stay-awake or to actually power its input circuitry, then you have to leave the switch in its on position anyway.

 

Thus there is only one thing that switch is good for (besides helping my assistant get the shrink tubing in the right spot):  It allows you to determine if your DAC requires VBUS power or not.  Switch it off, and if your connection stays and music still plays then you know your DAC's USB input is getting its power internally.

 

Now you know.  It is only useless feature I have ever designed into a product.  At least it does not contribute much to the cost.  

 

 

[thyname]

7 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

It's an on/off switch and it cuts the 5vdc USB VBUS power in the off position.

Thanks! I am using it to the Singxer SU-1. Do you know if needs to be on or off in this case?

 

Also, how do you move the switch? Slide up and down or press it? I don't want to break it...

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, thyname said:

Thanks! I am using it to the Singxer SU-1. Do you know if needs to be on or off in this case?

 

Also, how do you move the switch? Slide up and down or press it? I don't want to break it...

 

The SU-1 requires VBUS.

 

The switch bat is the tiny white thing.  It slides up towards "UpTone."  The ON position is when the white of the switch connects the 2 white dots painted on either side of the body of the switch.  A pen or pencil tip is required to slide it.

 

 Leave the switch alone.  It is stupid.  (Can you tell it is Friday and that I'm hot and tired?)

 

Enjoy your ISO REGEN!

[ElviaCaprice]

46 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

It turns off the 5V VBUS between the ISO REGEN and your DAC.  It really is an almost useless joke.  John often chides me for asking him to put it on the board.  Here is why I say that:

 

a) If your DAC does not use VBUS power, then you can switch it off.  But why?  It is not as if that 5VBUS is running down the length of a cable and capacitively coupling to the data lines (the reason why some people like those split- or data-only cables). If you DAC is not using the VBUS then it is ignoring the 5 volts on pin 1.

 

b) If your DAC requires VBUS power, either for "handshake"/recognition/stay-awake or to actually power its input circuitry, then you have to leave the switch in its on position anyway.

 

Thus there is only one thing that switch is good for (besides helping my assistant get the shrink tubing in the right spot):  It allows you to determine if your DAC requires VBUS power or not.  Switch it off, and if your connection stays and music still plays then you know your DAC's USB input is getting its power internally.

 

Now you know.  It is only useless feature I have ever designed into a product.  At least it does not contribute much to the cost.  

 

 

 

But if you were to use the USPCB adapter for connecting your PC to another component not needing the 5V VBUS, then it may come in handy in preventing any nasty grounding into the new component.  So outside the ISO Regen, the adapter 5V VBUS switch has some usefulness.

[BigAlMc]

Ok so I'm finally in a position to post some listening impressions but first an update on issues I raised previously. 

 

I was experiencing frequent dropouts originally. Music playing and just stopping with "no audio device found" showing on Roon on my phone. Anyway I tried flipping the red switch (as advised on this forum) to disable the galvanic isolation and that seemed to resolve the dropouts. 

 

Then a week or so later my Y cable from Ghent turned up so I could power both my SU-1 and my IR with the same LPS-1. 

 

After a day or so it occurred to me to try flipping the red switch back on. I did so and whaddya know - no dropouts! 

 

So who knows where the issue was but best guess is somewhere in the combo of MR, IR and SU-1 powered by two LPS-1's and an iFI Ipower there was an issue causing a little ground to build up. 

 

Guess I'll never know for sure but the main point is its a happy ending with my IR running in its full galvanically isolated glory 

 

Listening impressions to follow.... 

[BigAlMc]

So it occurred to me that I hadn't tested the IR solely in the USB path as I'd only listened to it going into my SU-1. I therefore spent some time this morning trying a few combinations. 

 

Background info:

 

Microrendu as Roon NAA. Powered by LPS-1. Connected using Ghent cable as recommended on the other DIY cables thread. 

 

Singxer SU-1 modded with Kitsune kit for LPS-1. Providing an I2S signal over HDMI to my Directstream DAC. 

 

ISO Regen with USPCB connector.  

 

Both IR & SU-1 powered by LPS-1 using Ghent Y cable. 

 

Curious USB cable (just to annoying the bits are bits brigade ). 

 

Combo 1. MR direct to DAC via Curious cable. SQ was 'good'. 

 

Combo 2. MR to IR via Curious. IR to DAC via USPCB doofer. SQ was 'much' better. Like a 25% whoa jump. 

 

Combo 3. MR to SU-1 via Curious. SU-1 to DAC via I2S. SQ was better than Combo 2. But the change was different. Combo 2 vs 1 was a difference in clarity & control. Combo 3 vs 2 was the same clarity and control but more texture & soundstage. Just felt a bit 'nicer'. And not as much as a jump as 2 vs 1. Say 10%

 

Combo 4. MR to IR via Curious. IR to SU-1 via doofer. SU-1 to DAC via I2S. A slight improvement still. Perhaps another 5%. But very close to 3. Just a little more clarity & control. 

 

I'm glad I took the time to do these tests because (and no offence intended Alex, just being honest) originally I didn't feel the IR added much to my system. I figured it wasn't doing any harm but reasoned that my SU-1 was also doing such a great job that there was less room for improvement. The listening test has convinced me that the IR is indeed further improving the SQ. But it's a fairly subtle contribution. 

 

Conclusions.

 

If you have an MR going into your DAC then the IR is a no brainier. 

 

If you have a direct USB from laptop or suchlike then ditto. A messy USB source will benefit hugely from the IR. 

 

If you have an SU-1 or similar DDC outputting non-USB then we're moving into more YMMV territory. I'm personally happy with my IR and will keep it in my setup as whilst the contribution is more slight, at the end of day it's still improving the SQ and chasing those additional few % is kinda what this hobby is all about. 

 

Hope this is helpful. 

 

Alex/John S - great job, especially at that price point. Now when are you going to provide the Audiophile Ethernet switches we are all waiting for? 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

[k-man]

Alan,

 

Great info. How would the combo sound of mR fed by iPower, SU-1 powered by individual LPS-1, Iso Regen powered by 2nd LPS-1? Or was this the previous combo that led to the dropouts?

I have played around with a few configurations, and only in a situation where a Y cable has been used has the dropouts ceased (this is akin to disabling Isolation). I have emailed Alex a few days back to clarify if my components or setup is causing the isolator chip to become unstable, or the chip itself is unstable.

[BigAlMc]

6 minutes ago, k-man said:

Alan,

 

Great info. How would the combo sound of mR fed by iPower, SU-1 powered by individual LPS-1, Iso Regen powered by 2nd LPS-1? Or was this the previous combo that led to the dropouts?

I have played around with a few configurations, and only in a situation where a Y cable has been used has the dropouts ceased (this is akin to disabling Isolation). I have emailed Alex a few days back to clarify if my components or setup is causing the isolator chip to become unstable, or the chip itself is unstable.

 

Hi k-man, 

 

Before I received my Y cable I tried the MR on the iFI (yes - this was the combo with the dropouts) and the IR on the iFI (though I reasoned I wanted the LPS-1 goodness as close to the DAC as possible and settled on the previous). 

 

In my setup as the IR and SU-1 share the same LPS-1 via a Y cable and are both upstream of the MR source I figure I still have the isolation. i.e. I'm still isolated from any noise downstream. I guess an IR and MR sharing an. LPS-1 is different tho. 

[rickca]

53 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Now when are you going to provide the Audiophile Ethernet switches we are all waiting for? 

I know @Superdad said not till next year because he has other things in the pipeline that are higher priority.  I'd love to know what those things are!  But, like you, I'm ready to buy an audiophile ethernet switch today.

[k-man]

Yes, judging by previous posts, the SU-1 and IR paired to a LPS-1 by Y cable is the sensible option. I have my Y cable feeding both Amber Regen and Iso Regen from a LPS-1  (direct DAC connection).

 

 

[tboooe]

Alan, thank you for your write-up.   I also have an IR and SU-1.  I found that powering the IR separately versus sharing an LPS-1 sounded better.  At first I used a cheap 5v battery and now I use my HD Plex linear power supply.  You may want to give it a try.  To me, the IR improvements were not subtle.

[BigAlMc]

3 hours ago, tboooe said:

Alan, thank you for your write-up.   I also have an IR and SU-1.  I found that powering the IR separately versus sharing an LPS-1 sounded better.  At first I used a cheap 5v battery and now I use my HD Plex linear power supply.  You may want to give it a try.  To me, the IR improvements were not subtle.

 

Hi @tboooe, 

 

Interesting and cat amongst the pigeons time!  As you know I've kinda followed your lead on the SU-1 thread and not regretted any of it. The SU-1 for the money is nothing short of a revelation. 

 

The IR on the other hand in my setup is a slight improvement. So "not subtle" certainly appeals. I considered getting a third LPS-1 (but I'm worried that might distract Alex & John from building my Ethernet switch ). 

 

Hard question to answer but in your experience do you think giving the IR it's own LPS-1 would increase the SQ bump from slight to "not subtle"? 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[Barry in Calgary]

Hi All

 

i just finished finding my son's old Legos in the crawl space  (he is 28 years old now) and have  built a cradle for the USBPCB.  I'm using the USBPCB to replace the Curious Cable 200 mm link cable between the IR and my DAC.

 

In my system, it's a very worthwhile change. It really lets the USB cable/IR combination show what it is capable of.

 

The detail and depth I'm hearing is beyond what I've heard before.  Listening to Dominic Miller's "Silent Light" I don't believe I've heard the guitar sound quite so beautiful. I had zero expectation for the little adapter, so this is a nice bonus.

 

On a less optimistic note, I am hearing the very occasional pop, sounds like static, which I never heard before.

 

Oh well, more things to obsess over...

 

Regards

Barry in Calgary 

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, Barry in Calgary said:

The detail and depth I'm hearing is beyond what I've heard before.  Listening to Dominic Miller's "Silent Light" I don't believe I've heard the guitar sound quite so beautiful. I had zero expectation for the little adapter, so this is a nice bonus.

 

On a less optimistic note, I am hearing the very occasional pop, sounds like static, which I never heard before.

 

Hi Barry:

 

Glad you are enjoying what you are hearing.  As for the occasional tick/static noises, they are data drops, and we are working on solving this once and for all.  Funny, seems to happen more for microRendu users.  

Try switching the red switch up ("ON") to defeat the isolation.  If that helps, then your issue is more one of grounding of your gear and not related to issue we are battling with the isolator/hub-chip interface and parts variability.

 

You are welcome to e-mail me directly about your system and your ISO REGEN.

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

[tboooe]

3 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Hard question to answer but in your experience do you think giving the IR it's own LPS-1 would increase the SQ bump from slight to "not subtle"?

Good question.  I think eventually I will get another LPS-1 for the IR but for now my limited funds are being diverted elsewhere (i.e. my feral kids).  Perhaps you could try powering the IR separately with a cheap 5v cell phone charger battery? Worse case, if you find it doesnt improve things you've got a nice charger for your phone!  I have the following:

 

https://www.amazon.com/TeckNet-Universal-16750mAh-Output-PowerZen/dp/B00FAU7ZB2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498342637&sr=8-1&keywords=tecknet+battery

[ted_b]

I received one of the first ISO Regen/USPCBs (aka IR), thanks to Alex's diligent work, but have failed to report on it due to a few of life's curve balls.  During that hiatus, I have made sure that the IR was being broken in, and now have a good  600+ hours on it.   The unit (and as I alluded to, I will include the USPCB here; haven't tried it with and without due to my newly reinvigorated "life's too short" mantra) is powered by their LPS-1 and drives a Kitsune-modded SU-1 (internal ps for now). 

 

So the signal path is:

HQP Windows 10 server -> ethernet ->Windows 2012R1 NAA w/JCAT card -> TotalDac USB cable -> IR -> twisted USPCB -> SU-1 -> Nordost Silverscreen HDMI -> Holo Audio Spring Kitsune Edition I2S input.

 

Note:  I will report on the same path, with uRendu NAA instead of Windows NAA later.

 

I currently play PCM at 384k and DSD at DSD512.

 

Many of us go to great lengths to find newly remixed or remastered favorites that just might improve the listening experience, only to find that only a fraction of them really do that.  Many of us spend big $$ on trying to improve the listenability of our systems by supposedly upgrading our digital front ends and dacs at quite a steep price, usually due to the damn reality called diminishing returns.  And most importantly, many of us assume that the level of sonic bliss we currently experience (black backgrounds, wide soundstage, etc) can most likely be improved upon only slightly, and without giving up something else (especially lots of money).  But we keep trying, and often we stumble upon some tweak or product that makes a nice difference.

 

The ISO Regen is not one of these things.  No, it is not a nice little thing to add to your system, at least in mine, because last night my buddy Rob and I sat down to "get used to the sound and then remove the IR to hear the delta" sort of evening.  My wife is out of town and I had plenty of time to try and hear the subtleties.   What a joke!!

 

Someone must have broken into my home during my hiatus and replaced ALL my music with master tapes from heaven.  Dear god, it was that kind of change.  We first heard it with a simple redbook album one of my go-tos...Gillian Welch's Harrow and the Harvest.  The tidal waves of air, color, definition (which I define as detail with body), soundstage presence, harmonics, vocal realism, and, what really stood out (the entire night)...a complete 100% removal of listener fatigue.  Dave's guitar work was mesmerizing, as if I were listening to it plugged into my own amps instead of recorded.  And this is an average redbook recording, nothing audiophile about it (although well done).

 

Let me describe the definition thing.  Radiohead just released a 20th anniversary OK Computer remaster (OKNOTOK).  And although there is only so much one can do with a 1997 heavily compressed masterpiece, the "quiet passages" are revelatory in this update.  Thom's chord work toward the end of "Lucky" had so much definition that it gave me goosebumps, and I've heard this album four hundred thousand times.

 

Another non-descript (until now) redbook masterpiece is Cat Power's Moon Pix.  We put on "No Sense" and were blown away by the electricity of this minimalist album; again, the feeling that the guitars were plugged directly into MY amps, not hers.  Tonight I sit down and listen to the whole thing for the first time (although really it's my nine hundredth).

 

As a charter member of the NativeDSD team I have the wonderful privilege of listening to anything we offer.  And admittedly, I am not a fountain of knowledge on things classical, but I know what I like.  Pieter Wispelwey's DSD cello recordings are some of my faves, and with this new soundstage the realism is profoundly improved, to the point of more goosebumps.  Hall cues wash over you like they never before existed (they did but only now what before seemed like faint promises).  Gut, body, tone, earth, hell even a screech or two....seems perfectly balanced.  I cannot wait to hear more.  Our DSD256 recordings, even in stereo (what might this do to a multichannel USB chain!!!) are almost laughably real.  Spooky really.

 

OK, I guess I am a little over the top, but I call em as I hear em.  This is amazing.

 

Downsides: I heard a faint tick now and then, but I am not convinced they came from the IR, since I am pointing out that the listening session was revelatory.  I will report back.  Also, although I have absolutely no basis for this, I came away feeling that PCM was improved slightly more than the already-pristine DSD512, but this is splitting hairs.  Each was transformed.

 

What am I now not hearing, or put another way, what was removed from my system?  Dunno, but if that is simply what galvanic isolation sounds like (and it seemed to be much more than just a reduction in noise floor) I'm all about it!  The real summary of the night was this:  during listening I thought to myself that any improvement from here would be superfluous, and that the prosecution rests! (OK, at least it's a good thought).

 

Please run out and buy this IR/USPCB solution as soon as possible.  You have 30 days to try it.  Something is perfectly right about your current system if heavenly improvement is not heard (or you are just not paying attention). 

 

Edit: my next tweak is to take my Windows NAA and rearrange it so that it lines up with the ISO Regen-SU1 chain and replace the TotalDac cable with another USPCB.  Stay tuned, but as I said, any improvement from here on out is an embarrassment of riches.

 

[rickca]

I think Ted liked it.

[Jud]

Hi Ted -

 

I agree about the “my collection is new to me” feeling, and about “The Harrow and the Harvest” being a wonderful album.  (They tour as Gillian Welch featuring her a little more, and as Dave Rawlings Machine featuring him a little more.  They aren’t super famous especially under the latter name, so you get opportunities like the one I did to see them in a very small hall standing a few feet from the stage.  They’re terrific.)

[Superdad]

31 minutes ago, rickca said:

I think Ted liked it.

 

Shhh... don't tell "objectivist" boys over in that other thread.  They'll crucify Ted and brand him as part of our delusionist cult.  We all know the ISO REGEN is part of a giant audiophile Jedi mind-trick experiment. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

Someone must have broken into my home during my hiatus and replaced ALL my music with master tapes from heaven.  Dear god, it was that kind of change.  We first heard it with a simple redbook album one of my go-tos...Gillian Welch's Harrow and the Harvest.  The tidal waves of air, color, definition (which I define as detail with body), soundstage presence, harmonics, vocal realism, and, what really stood out (the entire night)...a complete 100% removal of listener fatigue.  Dave's guitar work was mesmerizing, as if I were listening to it plugged into my own amps instead of recorded.  And this is an average redbook recording, nothing audiophile about it (although well done).

 

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

 

Let me describe the definition thing.  Radiohead just released a 20th anniversary OK Computer remaster (OKNOTOK).  And although there is only so much one can do with a 1997 heavily compressed masterpiece, the "quiet passages" are revelatory in this update.  Thom's chord work toward the end of "Lucky" had so much definition that it gave me goosebumps, and I've heard this album four hundred thousand times.

 

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

OK, I guess I am a little over the top, but I call em as I hear em.  This is amazing.

 

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

What am I now not hearing, or put another way, what was removed from my system?  Dunno, but if that is simply what galvanic isolation sounds like (and it seemed to be much more than just a reduction in noise floor) I'm all about it!  The real summary of the night was this:  during listening I thought to myself that any improvement from here would be superfluous, and that the prosecution rests! (OK, at least it's a good thought).

 

Please run out and buy this IR/USPCB solution as soon as possible.  You have 30 days to try it.  Something is perfectly right about your current system if heavenly improvement is not heard (or you are just not paying attention). 

 

Seriously though Ted:  Thanks for all the kind words.  Really glad you are enjoying the ISO REGEN / UltraCap LPS-1 combo so much.

 

If you want to know just what portion of the SQ bump is from the galvanic isolation, just flick the red switch up ("ON") to defeat the GI by jumping the "moat."  In my system, I'd say its about 20% of the goodness.  Am interested in knowing how much other think it contributes.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

 

[BigAlMc]

7 hours ago, tboooe said:

Perhaps you could try powering the IR separately with a cheap 5v cell phone charger battery?

 

Hi @tboooe

 

I'll try this as I have one of these. 

 

Thanks, 

Alan