ISO REGEN launch thread! (product web page up; photos, etc.)

[rajacat]

Does anybody have a photo of the ISO REGEN connected to their DAC using the 90 degree USPCB A>B adapter?

Thanks

 

..Roy

 

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

Exactly!  I hope folks listen to you.

 

I should not probably say this, and it's OK if this post is deleted, but I just wondering how that "poor designer" feels about this. 

 

It can't be that fun for a person so passionate about his work, and share almost everything with us being denied to explain all the potential customers what they probably like to know before the final decision of a purchase. 

 

There may be others than just us the customer, that will take one business elsewhere. Lost sale and lost income. 

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

It can't be that fun for a person so passionate about his work, and share almost everything with us being denied to explain all the potential customers what they probably like to know before the final decision of a purchase. 

 

While John and I would love to publicly share everything--and quite frankly we share WAY more than most manufacturers--you need to understand that we operate in a small and competitive niche, and it would be very poor business judgement for us to reveal all current methods, new ideas, or product plans.  

Manufacturers in high-end audio watch each other, and without naming names I can say that both UpTone and Sonore have had its concepts and designs copied.  My approach is to try to move quickly and innovate, and our future plans and products will contain plenty of truly unique techniques.

Based on our respective desires, mixed in large part with radical brainstorms that John has, both Sonore and UpTone have good things planned.  But we will NOT be talking about them 4-9 months ahead of release!

 

Andreas, I do not know what information you think you are being denied.  We have been very clear about what the ISO REGEN does and how it does it.  It is all on the web page.   If you want to know how it sounds in comparison or in combination with other products, then you will need to try them--or wait for others to report about it.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, rajacat said:

Does anybody have a photo of the ISO REGEN connected to their DAC using the 90 degree USPCB A>B adapter?

 

Sure Roy, here you go:

[Daudio]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

It can't be that fun for a person so passionate about his work, and share almost everything with us being denied to explain all the potential customers what they probably like to know before the final decision of a purchase. 

 

I would think that that 'passionate person' is smart enough to not only understand the vaild reasons for carefull choice of what sensitive information to release, and when, but also have the emotional maturity to easily delay gratification to the proper time.

 

You know, like waiting patiently for technical information, and product releases 

 

Or, put another way 'Anticipation' 

 

[rajacat]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Sure Roy, here you go:

Well.... it'll be interesting having it hanging off the back of my DAC over nothingness. My DAC is huge. 15" deep and the shelf is 15" deep too. No matter, I'm going to order one anyway and figure out some way to support it and keep it from being subject to bumps and entanglements.  

[kalinka]

@Superdad So, not willing to be annoying, but do you already know when the second wave of iso regens will begin to ship?

[Middy]

I am not crazy..of course I got different colours to test what's best. What's wrong with people today ..call themselves audiophiles... TUT TUT..

Colors absorb light, light is a wave.. so sound is a wave.. Ergo this will effect quantum waves absorbing nasty sound away from the ISO.

It was cheap and I like Lego. ..

[Superdad]

37 minutes ago, kalinka said:

@Superdad So, not willing to be annoying, but do you already know when the second wave of iso regens will begin to ship?

 

I'll know more in a day or two.  Waiting on board production and some parts are stuck in customs.  But we expect to have enough boards by June 1--to then test, assemble, and finish shipping in the few days after that--to cover all the rest of the folks who were originally promised May 16-19 shipping (order #s up to and including #5449).

 

250 more boards after that will hopefully arrive by June 8th, and then we can jump on all "second run orders," #5450 and above.  I hate parts delays; really tough when some parts are "sole-source" only.

 

Thanks for your patience. 

[greenleo]

7 hours ago, tboooe said:

My personal findings support this conclusion.  I currently use a cheap $100 low powered PC as an NAA in my system.  The USB out from this PC goes into the IsoRegen.  I was able to try a microrendu in place of my PC (prior to having the IsoRegen) and it did sound better.  That being said, I dont know if I would still hear the improvement now that I have the IsoRegen in the chain.  Unfortunately there is only 1 way to find out!  

 

Hopefully we will start hearing feedback from people with the microrendu or sms200 in their system as well as the IsoRegen.

I believe mR + IR will improve the sound.

[greenleo]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

While John and I would love to publicly share everything--and quite frankly we share WAY more than most manufacturers--you need to understand that we operate in a small and competitive niche, and it would be very poor business judgement for us to reveal all current methods, new ideas, or product plans.  

Manufacturers in high-end audio watch each other, and without naming names I can say that both UpTone and Sonore have had its concepts and designs copied.  My approach is to try to move quickly and innovate, and our future plans and products will contain plenty of truly unique techniques.

Based on our respective desires, mixed in large part with radical brainstorms that John has, both Sonore and UpTone have good things planned.  But we will NOT be talking about them 4-9 months ahead of release!

 

Andreas, I do not know what information you think you are being denied.  We have been very clear about what the ISO REGEN does and how it does it.  It is all on the web page.   If you want to know how it sounds in comparison or in combination with other products, then you will need to try them--or wait for others to report about it.

Alex,

 

Surely Andrea is not talking about you.  I think the timing is very bad that UR(ultraRendu) must be delivered in a short time.  As I've stated in another thread, this puts anxieties to the customers as well.  Under such a difficult situation, the styles of handling the customers' enquiries becomes even more important.  Unfortunately not everybody has the skills as you, as pointed out by austinpop already.

[JohnSwenson]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:36 AM, R1200CL said:

 

OK, based on this I understand now that actually conclusion earlier today was a  bit wrong misleading by some other true believers ?

 

So how I now understand this is that avoid using a PC upfront the ISO REGEN, as one have to assume the computer has the worst clock. 

 

A good endpoint with a propper clock is crusial upfront the ISO REGEN.  So since some of John's creations also contains endpoints of "various quality", I think i may have to purchase something from this paranoid guy that just closed his thread. ?

 

 

I'm not sure I follow this.

 

The ISO REGEN provides the greatest improvement for systems that do NOT have the best source. What feeds the ISO REGEN DOES matter, as stated in my post above nobody has yet come up with ANY interface that completely blocks the upstream clock signature, so whatever is used upstream will have some impact on the sound. But the ISO REGEN has less of this than most other devices. The result it that it is very effective with less than perfect sources.

 

While it is true that for the absolute best result possible, no matter what the cost or complexity, it needs to be fed by a source with very low phase noise clock, that does NOT mean it is useless with less than the best source.

 

That is it's primary purpose, to improve the sound you get with whatever source you have. Rather than spending gazillions of dollars on a DAC that has extremely low sensitivity to upstream clock signature, or gazillions on a source that has an extremely low noise clock signature, stick one of these things inbetween a source with less than stellar performance and a DAC that doesn't have the best USB performance and it will radically improve the sound without having to spend a gazillion dollars to do so.

 

That is my primary motivation in all this, allowing people to get remarkable sound without having to sell the house to get it.

 

As an example of this I am right now using a $200 source (squeezebox touch) feeding a ISO REGEN with an $8 USB cable, into a $109 DAC from Amazon, using a $12 USB cable, into $80 headphones , both SBT and ISO REGEN powered by an LPS1 with a DIY Y cable, and getting the best sound I have ever had. Total system cost: $975.

 

THIS is what the ISO REGEN does.

 

John S.

[R1200CL]

4 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

While it is true that for the absolute best result possible, no matter what the cost or complexity, it needs to be fed by a source with very low phase noise clock, that does NOT mean it is useless with less than the best source

 

Thanks John. Great answer.

As listings impressions so far also conclude with direct attached computer, the lift in SQ is huge. I looking forward to read those that have endpoints, like me with a MicroRendu. I'm convinced I made the right choice purchasing the ISO REGEN with USPCB's.

 

Will in theory a dual ISO REGEN configuration make sense ? (Assuming dual LPS-1 as well).

 

[Speed Racer]

4 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

While it is true that for the absolute best result possible, no matter what the cost or complexity, it needs to be fed by a source with very low phase noise clock, that does NOT mean it is useless with less than the best source.

 

Hold on a second. What does it matter as long as the source is good enough so that data bits aren't getting flipped? Data bits getting flipped seems to be uncommon, based on what I read.

 

Why would a better source matter if the whole point of the ISO Regen is to completely isolate its input side from its output side AND to reclock and regenerate the USB data packets with near perfect signaling?

 

What would be different on the output side if the there were a better or worse source?

 

We buy this product because we have "less than the best source"!!

[tapatrick]

On 24 May 2017 at 5:09 PM, Superdad said:

That's quite the word salad there!   But I'll reply to a couple of those vegetables anyway.

Priceless.. made my wife and I laugh out loud Alex 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Hold on a second. What does it matter as long as the source is good enough so that data bits aren't getting flipped? Data bits getting flipped seems to be uncommon, based on what I read.

 

Why would a better source matter if the whole point of the ISO Regen is to completely isolate its input side from its output side AND to reclock and regenerate the USB data packets with near perfect signaling?

 

What would be different on the output side if the there were a better or worse source?

 

We buy this product because we have "less than the best source"!!

 

 

This has already been answered by John. Hence my previous effort to understand everything.

(And yes a bit related to some of his other products ) 

 

Also please understand that I'm talking about differences here that we might not will be able to hear. Also the results most likely is very user and equipment dependent. Especially the DAC I would suppose and your AC power wiring.
This, the SQ, we will learn more about in the user impression tread. Be patient.

 

I understand John answer er very theoretical and on the edge of what is technical possible today.

 

So I would highly recommend you to purchase this product.

Or you have one in order ?

 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Hold on a second. What does it matter as long as the source is good enough so that data bits aren't getting flipped? Data bits getting flipped seems to be uncommon, based on what I read.

 

Why would a better source matter if the whole point of the ISO Regen is to completely isolate its input side from its output side AND to reclock and regenerate the USB data packets with near perfect signaling?

 

What would be different on the output side if the there were a better or worse source?

 

We buy this product because we have "less than the best source"!!

 

You know jitter doesn't flip bits (unless you have a *really* big problem) and leakage currents can be running around the system without flipping bits, right?  Digital systems, as you say, are designed to be very robust in the face of these sorts of things, but it doesn't mean something like electrical noise ceases to exist in the system as a whole.

[Speed Racer]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

You know jitter doesn't flip bits (unless you have a *really* big problem) and leakage currents can be running around the system without flipping bits, right?  Digital systems, as you say, are designed to be very robust in the face of these sorts of things, but it doesn't mean something like electrical noise ceases to exist in the system as a whole.

 

Of course. Isn't the whole point of the ISO Regen to block all of that stuff? Here is a quote for the UpTone Audio web site:

 

The ISO REGEN creates a “moat” to isolate the power and signal grounds from computer/stream USB sources before your DAC.  This “moat” blocks leakage currents and other low level interference from the source. 

 

Are you and John saying there is no moat? Or are you saying it is a shallow moat and some of the bad stuff still gets through? I thought the grounds from the dirty and clean sides were completely isolated from each other unless the red switch block switch was in the up position. I thought the USB VBUS powered the input (dirty) side and the power supply plugged onto the ISO Regen powered the output (clean) side. The isolation chip was supposed to pass only data from the dirty side to the clean side.

 

If this isn't the case, what the heck is the case???

[R1200CL]

2 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

If this isn't the case, what the heck is the case???

 

Please relax and read Johns answer in my provisos reply to you 

And your understanding is 100% correct as far I as can read.

[Speed Racer]

Don't tell me to relax.....

 

John said:

 

"it needs to be fed by a source with very low phase noise clock"

 

What happens differently when the clock is good versus not so good. Since the ISO Regen reclocks the regenerated USB packets, why does it matter? Aren't the regenerated USB packets reclocked with the same “femto”-clock timing regardless?

[R1200CL]

18 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Don't tell me to relax.....

 

John said:

 

"it needs to be fed by a source with very low phase noise clock"

 

What happens differently when the clock is good versus not so good. Since the ISO Regen reclocks the regenerated USB packets, why does it matter? Aren't the regenerated USB packets reclocked with the same “femto”-clock timing regardless?

 

Again; have you actually read that post I'm referring to ?

 

" Every digital "stream" is timed by some clock, the phase noise of that clock is kind of a "fingerprint" on that stream, it is embedded in the timing of the stream. When that stream goes into some circuitry, some noise is generated in the power and ground signals of that circuitry. Even if that stream gets reclocked by an ultra low phase noise clock, there is still noise generated in the PG signals that has the fingerprint of the clock used to generate the stream in the first place! That noise can modulate the local clock so what come out of it is some combination of the original fingerprint and that of the local clock. "

 

No need to make people confused about something that may only be a theoretical issue.

Have you one in order ? What is your USB source ?

 

I'm actually not able to find your quote in any post when searching. Are you sure your reference is 100% correct. Or maybe it is the search engine...

[Solstice380]

A simple fact of life is that nothing is perfectly 100% effective at what it does.  Even if it is 99.9% that means it will be impacted to some degree by what it is fed.  Even though some think digital is perfectly 0 and 1, in hardware it is still an analog signal; voltage or current.  It follows that the upstream signal will have some effect, but is significantly mitigated by the good design.  

 

 

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Of course. Isn't the whole point of the ISO Regen to block all of that stuff? Here is a quote for the UpTone Audio web site:

 

The ISO REGEN creates a “moat” to isolate the power and signal grounds from computer/stream USB sources before your DAC.  This “moat” blocks leakage currents and other low level interference from the source. 

 

Are you and John saying there is no moat? Or are you saying it is a shallow moat and some of the bad stuff still gets through? I thought the grounds from the dirty and clean sides were completely isolated from each other unless the red switch block switch was in the up position. I thought the USB VBUS powered the input (dirty) side and the power supply plugged onto the ISO Regen powered the output (clean) side. The isolation chip was supposed to pass only data from the dirty side to the clean side.

 

If this isn't the case, what the heck is the case???

 

I wasn't speaking about the function of the ISO Regen, but about your previous post, which appeared to ask what the worth of the ISO Regen was if noise in your system wasn't so bad as to flip bits.

 

My answer was to say there's still, in a system without the ISO Regen, noise and jitter that make the use of the ISO Regen worthwhile.  The ISO Regen does a great job minimizing these problems.  Nothing is completely perfect, so as you've seen John doesn't say what is feeding the ISO Regen absolutely cannot matter.  But what he does say, and what I have found to be quite true, is that it very significantly improves the sound of a system.  For example, my system, with an 8-year-old laptop (that has a noisy SMPS) and a $375 DAC, sounds just great.

[greenleo]

@John

 

I want to check if my understanding of Galvinic Isolation (GI) is correct.

 

1. Say, for a simple system a DAC + an Amp, both AC powered and chassis earthed, there ground (or ground plates) are basically connected through the signal cable.  Hence noises may flow between them.

 

2. If, say, the DAC is powered by battery, it will become floating and there will be no common earth between the two devices.  Hence noises between them may not flow to the other party.

 

3. GI effectively forbids noises flow between interconnecting devices.

 

4. If a system that flows from A to D (say PC to mR to IR to DAC), if B and C are both battery powered, then the noise from the ground plate of each of the devices will be isolated and cannot pass to other devices.

 

I understand IR does more for providing high SI.  I also understand that LPS-1 provides effectively clean DC and takes care of the AC leakage current.  What I really want to know is what GI is for and how it helps in SQ.  Recently I come across with the term "ground loops" and cannot figure out a coherent picture even after reading lots of web pages.  Hence my questions.

 

If John or other members would pm me on these, you're welcome. 

[Elberoth]

Alex,

 

When do you expect to ship the last ISO regens from the initial batch of 250 ? (I bought it the very first morning you sent the link)