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ISO REGEN launch thread! (product web page up; photos, etc.)


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9 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I just post an answer to your question over in the other thread (saw it there first).  As to the desire for higher voltage, such is not the case with the ISO REGEN at all.  Everything besides the 5VBUS regulator is set to 3.3V.  So high voltages in just get dumped as heat.

 

The SOtM product you refer to may have some DC-DC switching regulators in it.  That is the only time that higher voltage=lower amperage usage.

Thanks again, Alex.  If, as someone has said, powering at 5V bypasses the internal regulators, is there any benefit to be expected from doing that with my usage case?  From what you have said, it seems safe for me to try and to see if I can hear any difference.  It’s just that my system is undergoing several changes at the moment, so identifying change in sound quality and accurately attributing that is likely to be more difficult than normal for a little while.  But my curiosity has been piqued.

Zenith SE > USPCB (5v off) > tX-USBultra 9V (SR4) > Sablon Reserva Elite USB > M Scaler > WAVE Stream bnc > DAVE > Prion4/Lazuli Reference > Utopia/LCD-4/HE1000se

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7 hours ago, str-1 said:

Thanks again, Alex.  If, as someone has said, powering at 5V bypasses the internal regulators, is there any benefit to be expected from doing that with my usage case?

 

Powering an ISO REGEN from 5V does not at all bypass its five ultra-ultra-low noise LT3042 regulators for all its 3.3V circuits--nor would that ever be desired.

 

As mentioned, feeding 5V does make it so that the ultra-low-noise 1-amp TI TPS7A4700 regulator--dedicated to providing 5VBUS output--to DACs that need--will be out of regulation.  I had a long conversation with John about this, and this really does not bypass the regulator.   The technical details of what goes on get pretty far out there, so I'll skip that for now.

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10 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Powering an ISO REGEN from 5V does not at all bypass its five ultra-ultra-low noise LT3042 regulators for all its 3.3V circuits--nor would that ever be desired.

 

As mentioned, feeding 5V does make it so that the ultra-low-noise 1-amp TI TPS7A4700 regulator--dedicated to providing 5VBUS output--to DACs that need--will be out of regulation.  I had a long conversation with John about this, and this really does not bypass the regulator.   The technical details of what goes on get pretty far out there, so I'll skip that for now.

Thanks.  That’s clear.  

Zenith SE > USPCB (5v off) > tX-USBultra 9V (SR4) > Sablon Reserva Elite USB > M Scaler > WAVE Stream bnc > DAVE > Prion4/Lazuli Reference > Utopia/LCD-4/HE1000se

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/13/2018 at 1:14 PM, Superdad said:

 

Powering an ISO REGEN from 5V does not at all bypass its five ultra-ultra-low noise LT3042 regulators for all its 3.3V circuits--nor would that ever be desired.

 

As mentioned, feeding 5V does make it so that the ultra-low-noise 1-amp TI TPS7A4700 regulator--dedicated to providing 5VBUS output--to DACs that need--will be out of regulation.  I had a long conversation with John about this, and this really does not bypass the regulator.   The technical details of what goes on get pretty far out there, so I'll skip that for now.

Hi Alex

 

I asked Tapatrick a similar question on how he runs his IR on 5v only when the following board (a Luckit Bluewave USB-to-SPDIF bridge) requires around 0.3A from the IR's 5v VBUS and he replied:

 "i @Cornan & @tims feed my IR with clean 5v on a split Ghent USB cable and the isolated side of the BW with another clean 5v .........An USPBCis between the IR and BW. Everything works well and has done for many months. IR definitely sounds better at 5v."

and also:

 ".......to clarify I have 3 different PSUs ? IR power 5v, IR USB 5v and BW 5v...when I said split Ghent cable I meant the USB data and power split"

 https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30634-the-true-experimental-tweak-thread/?page=172&tab=comments#comment-808658 

 

I want to try the same but before I order a 5v PS I want to understand how the IR can get a regulated 5v VBUS output when the external PS to the IR is only 5v.  

It's obviously is working for him with his setup but I'm not sure how.

 

Thanks 

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  • 4 months later...

Has anyone had an issues with iso regen working? 

 

I putchased the iso regen to test the improvements i could get by cleaning up the signal. It works fine with my Korg dac in fact it works really well! Made a massive improvement. So I continued on and bought an Ultrarendu to try. I have now hit the crossroads. The ultrarendu doesnt work with the korg because it didn't support linux. So I have used it in my cambridge dac built into the amp... It's superior to the korg iso regen combo... Problem I now have is the cambridge doesnt like the iso regen! Everytime I try and add it into the chain the ultra just wont see the dac. This includes restarting the ultra one plugged, restarting the dac once pugged, plugging in once on.... Nothing seems to work... Any possible solutions? Also Ive been reading there might not be any point to the iso regen when you get an ultra anyway... It's this correct? 

 

Thanks

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I know there are a fair number of Cambridge DAC owners using ISO REGENs so we know they can work together.  How about giving us a call when you are in front of your system and I'll bet we can get the combo playing for you.  Phone: 1-209-966-4377 weekdays.

 

 

As for ISO REGEN with ultraRendu, a good number of folks enjoy them together.  The ISO REGEN and the ultraRendu do have in common the terrific Crystek CCHD-575 oscillator clock, and the ultraRendu does, like our REGENs, have a USB hub chip at its output to provide improved signal integrity.  However, the hub chip in the ultraRendu is the same USB2.0 part as in our original USB REGEN, whereas the ISO REGEN has a much newer USB3.1 hub chip chosen for its exceptional SI.

 

Also, the ISO REGEN provides full galvanic isolation. And while the Ethernet attached ultraRendu is already somewhat isolated, there is further benefit to having the ISO REGEN's GI, especially if the power used for the ultraRendu is not a completely "floating"/battery-like unit such as our UltraCap LPS-1.2.  All AC-connected power supplies will have some leakage and form loops with downstream components.  SMPS are of course the worst offenders, but traditional LPS units will have some leakage as well (whereas with the LPS-1.2 there is nearly none).

 

Lastly, the very small form-factor of the ISO REGEN allows it--with its included USPCB A>B Adapter--to be positioned right at the input of the DAC, thereby preserving pristine signal integrity and impedance match.

 

So while we never claimed that an ISO REGEN is essential for the already terrific signal integrity of the ultraRendu--clearly one of the best sources on the market--the above are the technical reasons why many do enjoy the combination, especially when the power supplies are great.  For a lot of people--including in my own personal system--the earlier microRendu followed by the ISO REGEN is a lot like an ultraRendu.

 

I'll leave off with what a client of ours wrote us yesterday--just after ordering his second ISO REGEN:

 

"Incidentally, last night I dusted off my (fully upgraded) Yggdrasil and compared...

   Ultra Rendu > ISO Regen > Yggdrasil    vs.   Ultra Rendu > Yggdrasil 

...and the improvement is substantial. I mention this because Schiit (and Sonore if I recall correctly) stated that external reclockers would be redundant w/ their latest offerings. Not so in my case. The difference is night and day in favor of having the ISO Regen in the audio chain.

Can't wait for the new one to hear whether I get a similar improvement w/ my Lampi Big 7.

--Kevin F.'
 

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  • 1 month later...

I would like to confirm what Alex posted here in above. I do hear livelier sound with the ISO in place at the point I'm getting upset when I have to disconnect any component because in my system the USB chain with the ISO in place is very flimsy and I still do not get what makes so hard for the ISO to establish a good signal path. Like now, since I disconnected the DAC last week, I can't get HQP to recognize the network. If I go straight from the UltraRendu it's all good. I'm on Sonore and HQP last releases.

 

If someone can help in solving the puzzle, I would be grateful. 

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5 hours ago, rikirk said:

I would like to confirm what Alex posted here in above. I do hear livelier sound with the ISO in place at the point I'm getting upset when I have to disconnect any component because in my system the USB chain with the ISO in place is very flimsy and I still do not get what makes so hard for the ISO to establish a good signal path. Like now, since I disconnected the DAC last week, I can't get HQP to recognize the network. If I go straight from the UltraRendu it's all good. I'm on Sonore and HQP last releases.

 

If someone can help in solving the puzzle, I would be grateful. 

 

Hi:

While I'm happy to try to help you with your ultraRendu>ISO REGEN>DAC connectivity--via e-mail or phone call would be best--I find the bolded sentence above a bit confusing.  If HQ Player does not "recognize the network" as you say, then best to take a step backwards to check in SonicOrbiter OS and a) DAC diagnostics to see if your Rendu sees the DAC; b) Relaunch HQP NAA.

Most likely your DAC is being very sensitive about its USB connection.  I too was having microRendu>ISO REGEN problems a few weeks ago and updating the OrbiterOS s/w fix them.  Just a thought and easy to try.

 

More generally with regards to ISO REGEN connectivity issues, having 1,000+ of these things out there we can outline several areas where things can go wrong (not to say that any of the below are the cause of what you are experiencing):

 

a) The Silanna isolator chip at the input of the ISO REGEN can be intolerant of certain out-of-spec USB cables (that is, the cable going from the computer to the ISO REGEN; the clean output side can drive any cable). So always a good first step is to try a generic USB cable into the ISO REGEN's input (the black 6-inch USB cable included with every ISO REGEN is great for this test).

 

b) Turn-on sequence:  Depending upon DAC and computer OS, it may work best to power on the ISO REGEN last or first, though most always it is best to have the DAC on first.

 

c) For Windows users the computer and DAC s/w driver needs to learn the path through the hub (ISO REGEN) to the DAC for the first time.  Usually just a full power-down reboot of the computer  will do it, but sometimes there is a need--again only first time--to uninstall and reinstall the DAC driver.  Windows 10 usually does not require this at all.

 

d) Grounding: Anyone who experiences either random ticks or sudden disconnects (music stops) when using the ISO REGEN should try putting the red switch into the up ('ON') position.  That will solve that symptom 95% of the time.  And while that defeats the galvanic isolation feature of the ISO REGEN, such is only about 20% of the SQ "goodness" of the product.  Assuming moving the red switch fixes that, then providing better reference grounding--either before or after the ISO REGEN--will likely allow for the full-isolation position to be used again (see this post for lengthier discussion of this topic: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31877-iso-regen-listening-impressions-kicked-off-with-some-measurements/?page=24&tab=comments#comment-714912)

 

[By the way, this issue is not unique to our implementation.  iFi's iGalvanic also uses the Silanna chip and also has a switch--though I think its middle position for full GI is able to be used by fewer people that with ISO REGEN.  We know why, but won't get into that here.]

 

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Alex, thank you a lot for taking the time. I do understand your frustration. Today I got a Sablon ethernet cable and I really wanted to make the whole thing to work and guess what, I make it happen. I have no idea where to point my finger, but after countless restarts and reboots it's finally working. 

 

Will reach out if I get in touble next time.

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  • 2 years later...

Hi  Alex

Could  you share any info about plans to introduce next generation ISO REGEN  that will be able to connect to external reference clock like MUTEC REF 10?

I have one that is connected to my ETHER REGEN and to   my IFI PRO IDSD  DAC and created wow effect....

 

Thanks

Haim 

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  • 1 month later...

haven't been around here for a while, so maybe this has already been addressed or well/known:

 

i'm moving my iso-regen to a new car music server i started building today based on audio-linux running on a RPi-4 and using a GeekOut2a usb DAC out of the iso-regen.

 

i want to power all of this RPi-4 (at 5v, 3a) and iso-regen (7-9v, ?a) from a battery pack and maybe a HDD as well.

 

guess my only question is: are there any battery power packs that support both 5v@3A (for RPi) and 6-9v@xA (for isoregen powering a usb dac)?

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  • 1 month later...
5 hours ago, Diasoft said:

Someone told me he has an Iso Regen v2. The website says v1.4? Did I miss something?

Thanks for any help

Dirk

Hi Dirk:

Welcome to the Audiophile Style forums!

Like many of the photos on our web site, the picture of the ISO REGEN board where you see V1.4 is out-of-date. It was taken during the launch of the product years ago. There have been several in-line revisions along the way, and indeed V2.0 has been the current—and final—one for a couple of years.

Regards,

—Alex C.

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  • 9 months later...
6 hours ago, Mihaylov said:

Hi! What is iso regen consumption current?

Through its DC input jack (for power to the four downstream side LT3042 regulators plus the 1A TI reg for the VBUS) the ISO REGEN draws about 240mA.

Through the USB ‘B’ input jack the ISO REGEN draws about 18mA of 5VBUS current to power the one LT3042 we use to provide 3.3V to the upstream side of the Silanna galvanic isolator chip.

 

Of course the above is just what the ISO REGEN consumes. Remember that whatever is drawn through the  5VBUS by your DAC is adding to the load of whatever power supply you are connecting to the ISO REGEN.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 year later...

I wish to improve the USB connection from a Lumin to DAC. At the moment, this is working with an ifi Micro USB3 for a few years now. It's a bitter pill to swallow for the price, in the Innuous Phoenix USB, but am hesitant to buy it, cause the pioneers of USB treatment right here have a replacement for the ISO REGEN which could give the Phoenix a run for its money. 

 

Ethernet may be the fashion at the moment, however USB is still a very important transmission medium for audio, yet it is the hardest to sound 'right' and transparent, since it needs to transmit super high DSD and deal with piggy back noise from host to DAC. Isolation is not the answer somehow. I'd like to see Uptone continue with the great work on the EtherRegen and apply this to USB without resorting to expensive USB cabling which can act as filters to clean up the mess or make the sound worse. Selection of the cable should not be in the realm of $hundreds and a crap shoot choice, but increasingly is becoming entry level requirement that I'd rather not contribute to!

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/5/2022 at 7:57 AM, Superdad said:

the USB 3.1 hub chip used in that early version of the ISO REGEN runs from a 25MHz clock. 

Here is version 2.0 with the same clock 25 MHz.

839C984F-A9A4-4E93-A740-1C9853C2E89D.thumb.jpeg.81fecf4eca756826c1d0a66cbd6596ae.jpeg

 

TUSB8020B works with 24 MHz clock. (it's from datasheet)

F206128A-C02E-4390-AD33-184D24F1039C.thumb.jpeg.6672f9a23f9062e1982b5699a4485118.jpeg

 

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